Email Archive - Archive 2005 (10565 messages) (Part 1 of 6) (Part 2 of 6) (Part 3 of 6) (Part 4 of 6)

A good way to measure consistency is through standard deviation. My std devs hang around 6 or 7 secs. The largest individual differences are much higher though beeing around 20 while my regular averages are around 50. On 9/13/05, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@...> wrote: > > heh, i range anywhere from 18 to 30 seconds INSIDE an average... > > now that's inconsistent > > On 9/12/05, richy_jr_2000 <richy_jr_2000@...> wrote: > > I know everyone has off days in cubing, but how drastic is the change > > in your times? Normally I'm in the 17 second range. On good days, low > > 16 seconds. On my bad days, my times can get as slow as low 20 > > seconds. > > > > Is a 4 second spread between good and bad days outrageous? Or is it > > just me... > > > > -Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -cubekid > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's always cool to have new fast members :-) Congratulations :-) 2005/9/13, pedrosino1 <pedrosino1@...>: > Hey, folks > I just wanted to share with you my happiness. Today I made my first sub- > 30 average! > I'm very happy > The times were: > 28.67, 27.56, 25.66, (25.59), 32.30, 32.83, (33.61), 31.84, 32.30, > 26.84, 27.53, 27.44. Average=29.30, SD=2.71 > I was very concentrated, and managed to do 7 sub-30 times. And the > worst was 33.61. Man, this is very good to me! > And earlier today, I made a very bad 35 average... > I just have to stay calm and concentrate on fluency, more than turning > speed. > I know it is not such a thing, but, hey!, I've cubing for just 3 months! > > > > Thanks to all of you for algs and tips. > > I'm coming to sub-20 now... > Wait for me... > > Pedro > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

I don't if you can really work on consistency. But I'm usually under 2 seconds of standard deviation. I guess it's just different for every person.

Not everybody all at once. ;P Anywho, a few days ago, I was averaging around 2:05 to 2:10 with this method, and was incredibly excited. After implementing a few more simple commutators for center piece switching, to minimize unnecessary setup moves, and getting more fluid on overall solve, I've decreased my average average and my best averages by over 15 seconds each. All in under 4 days. This is the part where you guys come in. With the addition of a few more algs for block center swapping (that's your cue), some center 3 cycles (your turn again), and some streamlining of the M slice edges stage (I've got that one), I think this method has a lot more potential than I originally suspected. With practice, these times should be relatively easy to achieve: 30 seconds for 1x3x4 blocks on L and R, along with U layer corners 20 seconds or less to pair and place M slice and U layer edges 15 seconds to finish of M slice center cubies I would like to specifically request an alg to swap 3 center cubies on opposite faces, one for adjacent faces, one to swap two adjacent center pieces with two non adjacent pieces on the opposite center, and one to swap two non adjacent center pieces with two non adjacent pieces on an adjacent side. Now, let the emails come flooding in. Thanks, in advance. =D -Mike Bennett --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > Hi all. Bob Burton has graciously agreed to let me put my 4x4 > solution online as a part of his site. > > As I'm preparing material, I would greatly appreciate it if you guys > could send me or reply to this post with any helpful 4x4 center mover > algorithms you know. Moves that only rotate centers on their faces > are unnecessary, but just about any other ones would be helpful, > especially those involving 3 cycles and blocks. Also, because the L > and R sides would be completed before this, moves involving three > adjacent faces (U, F, and R, for example) would be unnecessary. > > Thanks ahead of time. > > (I'm looking at you, Per. =D ) > > -Mike Bennett

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > I don't if you can really work on consistency. > But I'm usually under 2 seconds of standard deviation. > > I guess it's just different for every person. I thought it was discussed a while back and the general consensus was 'around 10%.' Of course, some people are higher or lower, but that's probably about average. I'm going to guess you average somewhere just over 20 seconds with that SD. Now, if I'm way off, please don't be offended. We'll just blame it on me being very tired. Of course, this also varies puzzle to puzzle, I'm sure. I would assume people are generally far less deviant with larger puzzles (once they're comfortable in a method). The larger times with relative consistency should add up to smaller deviations. Or, maybe that's just me... -Mike Bennett

Mike, Have you checked out Chris Hardwick's 4x4x4 Speedcubing Page??? I believe it has ALL the algs you are looking for. The link is: http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/4speedsolve2.html Check that out, it Rocks... Craig --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > Not everybody all at once. ;P > > Anywho, a few days ago, I was averaging around 2:05 to 2:10 with this > method, and was incredibly excited. After implementing a few more > simple commutators for center piece switching, to minimize unnecessary > setup moves, and getting more fluid on overall solve, I've decreased > my average average and my best averages by over 15 seconds each. All > in under 4 days. > > This is the part where you guys come in. With the addition of a few > more algs for block center swapping (that's your cue), some center 3 > cycles (your turn again), and some streamlining of the M slice edges > stage (I've got that one), I think this method has a lot more > potential than I originally suspected. > > With practice, these times should be relatively easy to achieve: > 30 seconds for 1x3x4 blocks on L and R, along with U layer corners > 20 seconds or less to pair and place M slice and U layer edges > 15 seconds to finish of M slice center cubies > > I would like to specifically request an alg to swap 3 center cubies on > opposite faces, one for adjacent faces, one to swap two adjacent > center pieces with two non adjacent pieces on the opposite center, and > one to swap two non adjacent center pieces with two non adjacent > pieces on an adjacent side. Now, let the emails come flooding in. > > Thanks, in advance. =D > > -Mike Bennett > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > Hi all. Bob Burton has graciously agreed to let me put my 4x4 > > solution online as a part of his site. > > > > As I'm preparing material, I would greatly appreciate it if you guys > > could send me or reply to this post with any helpful 4x4 center mover > > algorithms you know. Moves that only rotate centers on their faces > > are unnecessary, but just about any other ones would be helpful, > > especially those involving 3 cycles and blocks. Also, because the L > > and R sides would be completed before this, moves involving three > > adjacent faces (U, F, and R, for example) would be unnecessary. > > > > Thanks ahead of time. > > > > (I'm looking at you, Per. =D ) > > > > -Mike Bennett

Sorry, the homepage of that site is http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/4speedsolve.html Sorry...Craig --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" <logitewty@h...> wrote: > Mike, Have you checked out Chris Hardwick's 4x4x4 Speedcubing Page??? > I believe it has ALL the algs you are looking for. The link is: > > http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/4speedsolve2.html > > Check that out, it Rocks... > > Craig > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > Not everybody all at once. ;P > > > > Anywho, a few days ago, I was averaging around 2:05 to 2:10 with > this > > method, and was incredibly excited. After implementing a few more > > simple commutators for center piece switching, to minimize > unnecessary > > setup moves, and getting more fluid on overall solve, I've > decreased > > my average average and my best averages by over 15 seconds each. > All > > in under 4 days. > > > > This is the part where you guys come in. With the addition of a > few > > more algs for block center swapping (that's your cue), some center > 3 > > cycles (your turn again), and some streamlining of the M slice > edges > > stage (I've got that one), I think this method has a lot more > > potential than I originally suspected. > > > > With practice, these times should be relatively easy to achieve: > > 30 seconds for 1x3x4 blocks on L and R, along with U layer corners > > 20 seconds or less to pair and place M slice and U layer edges > > 15 seconds to finish of M slice center cubies > > > > I would like to specifically request an alg to swap 3 center > cubies on > > opposite faces, one for adjacent faces, one to swap two adjacent > > center pieces with two non adjacent pieces on the opposite center, > and > > one to swap two non adjacent center pieces with two non adjacent > > pieces on an adjacent side. Now, let the emails come flooding in. > > > > Thanks, in advance. =D > > > > -Mike Bennett > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > > Hi all. Bob Burton has graciously agreed to let me put my 4x4 > > > solution online as a part of his site. > > > > > > As I'm preparing material, I would greatly appreciate it if you > guys > > > could send me or reply to this post with any helpful 4x4 center > mover > > > algorithms you know. Moves that only rotate centers on their > faces > > > are unnecessary, but just about any other ones would be helpful, > > > especially those involving 3 cycles and blocks. Also, because > the L > > > and R sides would be completed before this, moves involving three > > > adjacent faces (U, F, and R, for example) would be unnecessary. > > > > > > Thanks ahead of time. > > > > > > (I'm looking at you, Per. =D ) > > > > > > -Mike Bennett

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > Of course, this also varies puzzle to puzzle, I'm sure. I would > assume people are generally far less deviant with larger puzzles (once > they're comfortable in a method). The larger times with relative > consistency should add up to smaller deviations. Or, maybe that's > just me... I imagine that if you compare similar puzzles where the solution is made up of many small steps (the "really big" cubes, say), the consistency (as a percentage of the total time) would improve with increasing size of the puzzle: With N small, similar steps in your solution, the typical variation in the solution time should increase roughly as sqrt[N], while the solution time itself increases faster than that, i.e. as N. It's not obvious that the argument is right, however. For a given puzzle (3x3x3 say), the same kind of reasoning would lead you to expect better consistency from a method that had more steps. That doesn't seem to agree with my own, very limited experience. :S Mike

2005/9/13, Mike Bennett <mikebennett_one@...>: > Of course, some people are higher or lower, but that's probably about > average. I'm going to guess you average somewhere just over 20 > seconds with that SD. Now, if I'm way off, please don't be offended. > We'll just blame it on me being very tired. No that's it, I average around 21 seconds these days with a best of 20.16.

> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > Mike, Have you checked out Chris Hardwick's 4x4x4 Speedcubing > Page??? > > I believe it has ALL the algs you are looking for. The link is: Are you sure? Mike and Chris do different steps and in a different order. ~ Bob

Okay, I will be serious. When I first got the Magic, I was VERY into it. I was already extremely interested in it because I had been Super-Magicing for a couple weeks and the Super Magic makes the normal magic seem like a baby. When my Magic arrived, I already knew how to solve it. I spent all day after I got it (from about 4pm to sleeptime) practicing the first transform, except for 80 minutes during class (too loud!). By the time I was taking timings the next day (for the first time), I was able to eventually get sub-2 by the end of the day. The first week (or so), I would do several averages of 100 per day, sometimes averages of 200 or 300 or more. Pochmann kept me motivated. :-) He once told me "An average of 100 per day keeps the slow times away." I believe this is true, but I don't practice much more lately anyway because I am a lazy bum and unfortunatley have other things to concentrate on, but it does not take long to get fast at the Magic. When I competed (and won) in New York, I had been solving the Magic in total for about 6 weeks, but didn't even bother to touch it from 4 weeks before the competition until the day of the competition. ;) Practice is by far the best way to bring your times down. ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gunnar Krig" <gunkr520@s...> wrote: > Ofcourse!! Didn't realize that! :-) > > I guess you do hundreds of magic-solves in a row, when taking time!? > > /Gunnar > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" > <bob@c...> wrote: > > Fast hands. :) > > > > ~ Bob > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gunnar Krig" > > <gunkr520@s...> wrote: > > > My best time for Magic was 2.10 at Swedish Openm, but I > practices a > > > bit more outside competition the same day and got a nice 1.65 > (on a > > > stackmat). I still can't see how you do sub-1.20. I'm using the > same > > > execution as Bob. > > > > > > /Gunnar > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gunnar Krig" > > > <gunkr520@s...> wrote: > > > > I know I should slow down more while solving, but it's harder > than > > > it > > > > sounds. I always try to do that, and I'm getting better every > > > day. I > > > > suppose that I have to get better at looking ahead, to get a > sub > > > 16 > > > > average. > > > > > > > > I'm very satisfied that I broke David Wesley´s swedish records > on > > > > 3*3*3. My average was better than thi winning time at WC2003. > > > > > > > > /Gunnar > > > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "mahtianssi" > > > > <mahtianssi@y...> wrote: > > > > > So my best avg of 10 is 16.34, and my best average of 3 in a > > > > > competition is 15.90. > > > > > I am very nervous in competitons, but it doesn't affect my > hands. > > > > > And for example Ron does very badly in competitons. > > > > > Genes or something else? > > > > > > > > > > P.S. > > > > > Gunnar, relax and slow down a bit in comps.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Josef Jelinek" <josef.jelinek@gmail.com> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:52 PM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Re : Waterman Method > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Nathan Moreau" > <nathan.m@n...> wrote: > > >You can be sub-15 with a method like Waterman's. > > >I think nobody knows all the sequences described in this method. > > > > >Gilles. > > > > > > Complete ZB is easier to learn :) > > That smiley shows that you - obviously - cannot be serious here... :) > > > Start with "Solving L" step is slow, compare to F2L (averaging 8-9 > for > > F2L = averaging ... 4-5 for L?). > > Fast Fridrich cubers do ~32 turns for F2L (corrent me if I am wrong). > 8-9s is 3.5-4 turns/s. I average 16 turns for one layer (always the > same color). Marc averaged about 6-7s for one face. One face or one layer?.. > After solving remaining corners (2-3s), you can be still bellow 10s and > you are left with two steps and the last easy middle edge permutation > which is around 22 turns total... > > > If someone really wants to learn something like Waterman, learning > > Gilles' method ! > > Yes, it may be better for someone... Everyone can find the best-fitting > method for himself (maybe even herself? :-)). > > Josef > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

I thought I'd just mention it: http://tinyurl.com/bqz96 Cheers! Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" <logitewty@h...> wrote: > Mike, Have you checked out Chris Hardwick's 4x4x4 Speedcubing Page??? > I believe it has ALL the algs you are looking for. The link is: > > http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/4speedsolve2.html > > Check that out, it Rocks... Just to clarify, I need these moves not to change anything other than the specific centers they effect. It's the final step of my solution, so, while I really enjoy Chris' page, it's not going to help in this situation. In fact, I developed mine as the antithesis to Chris' because, while many people are very good at centers first, I wasn't. It's a great method, but I know that my mind and hands work better with a different approach. I also know there are others who could also benefit from a non-centers first method. You have to customize to what fits you best. I also think that centers first on the 4x4 is very much like Fridrich for the 3x3. It's the method out there that's the most widely accessible on the web, so it's the most popular. If there were more resources available for alternatives, I think fewer people would use Fridrich. Anywho, that's my spiel for the day. Now send away. =D -Mike Bennett > > Craig > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > Not everybody all at once. ;P > > > > Anywho, a few days ago, I was averaging around 2:05 to 2:10 with > this > > method, and was incredibly excited. After implementing a few more > > simple commutators for center piece switching, to minimize > unnecessary > > setup moves, and getting more fluid on overall solve, I've > decreased > > my average average and my best averages by over 15 seconds each. > All > > in under 4 days. > > > > This is the part where you guys come in. With the addition of a > few > > more algs for block center swapping (that's your cue), some center > 3 > > cycles (your turn again), and some streamlining of the M slice > edges > > stage (I've got that one), I think this method has a lot more > > potential than I originally suspected. > > > > With practice, these times should be relatively easy to achieve: > > 30 seconds for 1x3x4 blocks on L and R, along with U layer corners > > 20 seconds or less to pair and place M slice and U layer edges > > 15 seconds to finish of M slice center cubies > > > > I would like to specifically request an alg to swap 3 center > cubies on > > opposite faces, one for adjacent faces, one to swap two adjacent > > center pieces with two non adjacent pieces on the opposite center, > and > > one to swap two non adjacent center pieces with two non adjacent > > pieces on an adjacent side. Now, let the emails come flooding in. > > > > Thanks, in advance. =D > > > > -Mike Bennett > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > > Hi all. Bob Burton has graciously agreed to let me put my 4x4 > > > solution online as a part of his site. > > > > > > As I'm preparing material, I would greatly appreciate it if you > guys > > > could send me or reply to this post with any helpful 4x4 center > mover > > > algorithms you know. Moves that only rotate centers on their > faces > > > are unnecessary, but just about any other ones would be helpful, > > > especially those involving 3 cycles and blocks. Also, because > the L > > > and R sides would be completed before this, moves involving three > > > adjacent faces (U, F, and R, for example) would be unnecessary. > > > > > > Thanks ahead of time. > > > > > > (I'm looking at you, Per. =D ) > > > > > > -Mike Bennett

Building 2 opposite 1x2x3 blocks (F2L minus 2 edges and middle-slice centers) can be done in less than 25 moves on average (I'm talking about real speedcubing of course). I need about 8s on average (starting with hands flat on the table, stopping by destroying the spacebar). Because I think I'll never be able to solve the F2L in less than 9s, I feel that a good speedcuber could solve the 2 blocks in less than 8s. Feel free to try and tell me how fast/slow you think it could be. Gilles.

It's supposed to say one layer as far as I know /Gustav Rune Wesstr�m skrev: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Josef Jelinek" <josef.jelinek@...> >To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:52 PM >Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Re : Waterman Method > > > > >>--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Nathan Moreau" >><nathan.m@n...> wrote: >> >> >>>>You can be sub-15 with a method like Waterman's. >>>>I think nobody knows all the sequences described in this method. >>>> >>>> >>>>Gilles. >>>> >>>> >>>Complete ZB is easier to learn :) >>> >>> >>That smiley shows that you - obviously - cannot be serious here... :) >> >> >> >>>Start with "Solving L" step is slow, compare to F2L (averaging 8-9 >>> >>> >>for >> >> >>>F2L = averaging ... 4-5 for L?). >>> >>> >>Fast Fridrich cubers do ~32 turns for F2L (corrent me if I am wrong). >>8-9s is 3.5-4 turns/s. I average 16 turns for one layer (always the >>same color). Marc averaged about 6-7s for one face. >> >> >One face or one layer?.. > > >>After solving remaining corners (2-3s), you can be still bellow 10s and >>you are left with two steps and the last easy middle edge permutation >>which is around 22 turns total... >> >> >> >>>If someone really wants to learn something like Waterman, learning >>>Gilles' method ! >>> >>> >>Yes, it may be better for someone... Everyone can find the best-fitting >>method for himself (maybe even herself? :-)). >> >>Josef >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1.1215 (20050913) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.nod32.com > > > > >

Me and Pedro started to cube almost in the same day, now he is sub 30 and I'm still trying to get sub 50 consistently. Not training as I did in the begining though. I think it was something like 2 and a half months ago when we started. Sub 30 in less that 3 months is pretty good!!! Congrats. Parabéns cara. Marco Garbelini On 9/13/05, Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@...> wrote: > > It's always cool to have new fast members :-) > Congratulations :-) > > 2005/9/13, pedrosino1 <pedrosino1@...>: > > Hey, folks > > I just wanted to share with you my happiness. Today I made my first sub- > > > 30 average! > > I'm very happy > > The times were: > > 28.67, 27.56, 25.66, (25.59), 32.30, 32.83, (33.61), 31.84, 32.30, > > 26.84, 27.53, 27.44. Average=29.30, SD=2.71 > > I was very concentrated, and managed to do 7 sub-30 times. And the > > worst was 33.61. Man, this is very good to me! > > And earlier today, I made a very bad 35 average... > > I just have to stay calm and concentrate on fluency, more than turning > > speed. > > I know it is not such a thing, but, hey!, I've cubing for just 3 months! > > > > > > > > > Thanks to all of you for algs and tips. > > > > I'm coming to sub-20 now... > > Wait for me... > > > > Pedro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, I started talking to people act school, and i did not know there were so many cubers! Theres one kid at my lunch who has heard about the LBL method, but im not sure if he can solve. Another kid can actually using WC (and i watched him) but he was terribly slow. Then there is anothet kid who i taught to cube, then theirs me. Im sure theres more people that would join, so ill have to make up flyers, maybe that will gain interest. Hope this goes over well. Wish me luck! Peter Greenwood --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@g...> wrote: > No seriously. I am also starting a Cube club in my institute and have > started a yahoo group like this one and till now we have abt 30-35 > members. I recently got cubes for many of them so they'll atleast > start cubing when the cube is in front of them. Only abt 3-4 ppl are > really interested though. > > Anyone has any hints on how to make cubing popular? Ofcourse I boast > abt my avg to everyone who cares to listen and I posted abt my > blindfold cubing on our newsgroup and everyone was really excited. But > that soon died down. :( > > Maybe i should start public cubing, but im a shy person and dont > usually like to do this. Any other hints? > > Sachin. > > > > On 9/13/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, pjgat09 <no_reply@y...> > > wrote: > > > > > > I need to gain interest for this club, what do you think is the best > > > way? > > > > Have Will Smith advertise it. > > > > Cheers! > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I too have just become sub-30, and im very excited!! Congratulations! Peter Greenwood --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Marco Garbelini <garbelini@g...> wrote: > Me and Pedro started to cube almost in the same day, now he is sub 30 and > I'm still trying to get sub 50 consistently. > Not training as I did in the begining though. > > I think it was something like 2 and a half months ago when we started. Sub > 30 in less that 3 months is pretty good!!! > > Congrats. > > Parabéns cara. > > Marco Garbelini > > > On 9/13/05, Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > > > > It's always cool to have new fast members :-) > > Congratulations :-) > > > > 2005/9/13, pedrosino1 <pedrosino1@y...>: > > > Hey, folks > > > I just wanted to share with you my happiness. Today I made my first sub- > > > > > 30 average! > > > I'm very happy > > > The times were: > > > 28.67, 27.56, 25.66, (25.59), 32.30, 32.83, (33.61), 31.84, 32.30, > > > 26.84, 27.53, 27.44. Average=29.30, SD=2.71 > > > I was very concentrated, and managed to do 7 sub-30 times. And the > > > worst was 33.61. Man, this is very good to me! > > > And earlier today, I made a very bad 35 average... > > > I just have to stay calm and concentrate on fluency, more than turning > > > speed. > > > I know it is not such a thing, but, hey!, I've cubing for just 3 months! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks to all of you for algs and tips. > > > > > > I'm coming to sub-20 now... > > > Wait for me... > > > > > > Pedro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello -- I'm wondering if any cubers on this list are in the area of Sacramento or Davis California, and if any of them are going to the NorCal contest on Sat, Sept 17? I'm in Sacramento, and heading down - I thought it'd be a good chance to meet up and see about forming a group or a club. I know of myself (in Sacramento) and Jeremy Dixon (in Roseville). Anyone else?? yeff

Cool. I started one at my high school and a LOT of people just joined (I didn't even advertise it) in because it was the next "cool" thing to do. I'm also planning on some kind of Arizona cube club at the University of Arizona here. :). It'll be different at a University since there's so many people, but I'd say I've shown enough people (and the multiplied effect of them showing their friends) I'd say around 25 people (that I know of) here know how to solve it... -Brento --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Baum" <speedrunningcuber@y...> wrote: > I'm also planning on starting a cube club at my school (Liberty > University). I always have a cube in my hands, whether I'm just > walking to class, sitting in class waiting for it to start, or > sometimes during class. ;) So there are a lot of people that know me > for my cubing and many people seem interested in a club. I've already > taught 4 or 5 people there how to cube, and I know several more that > want to learn. > > Bob, you have a cube club at your school, right? Any tips on making > it a success?

Hi David J, Yes, it was very exciting getting my first sub-30s average! I got a few more sub-30s averages last week, including a new best of 29.08s. :) My real average is still definitely over 30s! Re your other comment, did you see one of the 25th anniversary TV interviews I did, or are you referring to the photos I posted? If the former, which interview was it? I had thought the TV interviews were generally just screened in the UK. I know the CNN one was shown in other countries though because one of my friends in Australia told me that her mother had seen me on CNN. :) Jasmine http://speedcuber.blogspot.com --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "d_j_salvia" <d_j_salvia@y...> wrote: > Hi Jasmine, > > Congratulations! Nice isn't it? :) Keep up the good work. > > I thought you came across well at the 25th Anniversary event. > > Cheers! > > David J > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, jasmine_ellen > <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > I thought it would never happen, but yesterday it did! I got my first > > sub-30s average EVER! :) > > > > Here are the details: > > Average: 29.56s > > Individual times: 30.36, 32.15, (36.94), 28.72, 26.81, 31.63, 30.24, > > 29.06, 28.84, (26.31), 26.64, 31.13. > > > > I've written a blog entry about it on my site: > > http://speedcuber.blogspot.com/ > > > > Jasmine

Hey everyone, I just finished solving my dogic, after the first time I'd ever scrambled it! It took me about 1 hour and 34 minutes, seeing as how I had absolutely no idea how to approach it after seeing it scrambled. I think I figured out a good semi-efficient working solution though. Going to try a time again in a bit. Anyway I have a question. My dogic is one of the new Mefferts remakes and it tends to pop a bit if I'm not REALLY careful. Are there ways around this that anyone knows? I don't want to speed solve, but I'd prefer to not have to do a 288 degree turn just because my face doesn't want to turn the way I need it to turn. Anyway the dogic is awesome, and complicated! I had a few really cool pops and could get a good look at the insides. I gather that the triangle pieces of like colors are indistinct, but it took me a minute to realize that the flips of those other pieces are just like corners on a 3x3x3. So if I pop now I have a quicker way of knowing how the pieces go back in. Anyway I'm going to try another time. This thing is fun! Chris

Ohh ok. I just misunderstood how to do it. I get it now. Thanks!! --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > I haven't look at the booklet, but I know that corner flip method > you mentioned works. > > Notice that > (R' D' R D)x6 = I > > Also that move rotates UFR counterclockwise. > > So if you have three corners that need to go clockwise you do that > move > > (R' D' R D)x4 on the first corner, then spin U, x4 for the second, > spin U then x4 for the third. > > That's 12 executions, so your bottom layer pieces will solve twice, > and of course end solved. > > Three corners flipped counterclockwise will be 6 executions which is > safe. > > Also 1 corner clockwise and one counterclockwise will likewise be 6 > and so will 2 going each direction. > > Again I haven't look through the booklet, that would really stink if > they've misprinted algorithms, but that corner flip method works. > Though I think it wouldn't be too complicated to print the inverse > rather than to say to do the alg 4 times (which is the equivalent of > the inverse since it solves in 6 repetitions). > > Maybe they want to give the most basic solution possible to allow > people room to think for themselves and come up with new things? > > Chris

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, GameOfDeath2 <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Isn't it V=IR? Maybe sometimes other symbols are used so I'll shut up. I've seen both E and V used. The beauty of Muppet Theory is that you can use either one. :P > > PB=LI by chemical symbols. > > > > (It's nice to know that lead = lithium, but that is not what we want > > so let us continue.) > > You could mention it as a corollary. Yes. Frightening, how the evil-ness of one yellow muppet can so greatly affect the chemical world.... > > and multiplying by E yields > > B E R T = E V I L > > > > Q.E.D. > > Marvellous. I thoroughly enjoyed your post. Thanks! This sort of thing has been a side hobby of mine for some years now. Not as intriguing as the cube of course, but still fun.

Mike, here is a little library of moves (I have to do this quickly...check for typos): l d r' d' l' d r d' r2 u2 r2 u2 l2 F r2 F' l2 F r2 F' r2 B2 r' (fb') r B2 r' (f'b) r r2 B2 r' f r B2 r' f' r r2 (du') R (du') r2 (d'u) R' (d'u) r' (u d') r U2 r' (u' d) r U2 (l r') d2 (l' r) U' D' (l r') d2 (l' r) U D check these out...tell me if something doesn't work Bill McGaugh >From: "Mike Bennett" <mikebennett_one@...> >Reply-To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com >To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Request for algorithms >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:55:54 -0000 > >--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" ><logitewty@h...> wrote: > > Mike, Have you checked out Chris Hardwick's 4x4x4 Speedcubing Page??? > > I believe it has ALL the algs you are looking for. The link is: > > > > http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/4speedsolve2.html > > > > Check that out, it Rocks... > >Just to clarify, I need these moves not to change anything other than >the specific centers they effect. It's the final step of my solution, >so, while I really enjoy Chris' page, it's not going to help in this >situation. > >In fact, I developed mine as the antithesis to Chris' because, while >many people are very good at centers first, I wasn't. It's a great >method, but I know that my mind and hands work better with a different >approach. I also know there are others who could also benefit from a >non-centers first method. You have to customize to what fits you >best. I also think that centers first on the 4x4 is very much like >Fridrich for the 3x3. It's the method out there that's the most >widely accessible on the web, so it's the most popular. If there were >more resources available for alternatives, I think fewer people would >use Fridrich. > >Anywho, that's my spiel for the day. Now send away. =D > >-Mike Bennett > > > > > Craig > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > > Not everybody all at once. ;P > > > > > > Anywho, a few days ago, I was averaging around 2:05 to 2:10 with > > this > > > method, and was incredibly excited. After implementing a few more > > > simple commutators for center piece switching, to minimize > > unnecessary > > > setup moves, and getting more fluid on overall solve, I've > > decreased > > > my average average and my best averages by over 15 seconds each. > > All > > > in under 4 days. > > > > > > This is the part where you guys come in. With the addition of a > > few > > > more algs for block center swapping (that's your cue), some center > > 3 > > > cycles (your turn again), and some streamlining of the M slice > > edges > > > stage (I've got that one), I think this method has a lot more > > > potential than I originally suspected. > > > > > > With practice, these times should be relatively easy to achieve: > > > 30 seconds for 1x3x4 blocks on L and R, along with U layer corners > > > 20 seconds or less to pair and place M slice and U layer edges > > > 15 seconds to finish of M slice center cubies > > > > > > I would like to specifically request an alg to swap 3 center > > cubies on > > > opposite faces, one for adjacent faces, one to swap two adjacent > > > center pieces with two non adjacent pieces on the opposite center, > > and > > > one to swap two non adjacent center pieces with two non adjacent > > > pieces on an adjacent side. Now, let the emails come flooding in. > > > > > > Thanks, in advance. =D > > > > > > -Mike Bennett > > > > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > > > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > > > Hi all. Bob Burton has graciously agreed to let me put my 4x4 > > > > solution online as a part of his site. > > > > > > > > As I'm preparing material, I would greatly appreciate it if you > > guys > > > > could send me or reply to this post with any helpful 4x4 center > > mover > > > > algorithms you know. Moves that only rotate centers on their > > faces > > > > are unnecessary, but just about any other ones would be helpful, > > > > especially those involving 3 cycles and blocks. Also, because > > the L > > > > and R sides would be completed before this, moves involving three > > > > adjacent faces (U, F, and R, for example) would be unnecessary. > > > > > > > > Thanks ahead of time. > > > > > > > > (I'm looking at you, Per. =D ) > > > > > > > > -Mike Bennett > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

I'm proud to say that my company (First Trust Portfolios, L.P.) will be sponsoring me as a competitor in this year's Rubik's World Championship. I look forward to seeing you all there!! - Grant P.S. I know I've been extremely quiet, here, but I do still cube. I'm just so busy that I don't have time to keep up with the groups - I wish it weren't so. P.P.S I'm around April in my reading of this group, and see that I was in the top 10 posters of all time, as of then - I'm guessing I don't hold one of those positions, anymore, with how active this group has been!

Hey Grant, That's awesome news! I'm impressed that you were able to get sponsorship from your company. Very cool. :) Just curious... Are other people looking for sponsorship? Or just saving up for the trip? Re your other comments, I was away for a few days last week and I'm struggling to catch up on messages now. I don't think I would ever be able to catch up if I was only up to April posts! It'd be cool if you can catch up though because there have been plenty of interesting discussions since April. :) Jasmine http://speedcuber.blogspot.com --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Tregay" <Grant@T...> wrote: > I'm proud to say that my company (First Trust Portfolios, L.P.) will > be sponsoring me as a competitor in this year's Rubik's World > Championship. I look forward to seeing you all there!! > > - Grant > > P.S. I know I've been extremely quiet, here, but I do still cube. I'm > just so busy that I don't have time to keep up with the groups - I > wish it weren't so. > > P.P.S I'm around April in my reading of this group, and see that I was > in the top 10 posters of all time, as of then - I'm guessing I don't > hold one of those positions, anymore, with how active this group has > been!

I had to lube mine, not for speed, but to prevent so many pops. I can't cut any corners like a cube, or it will pop, but lube gave it a little more room for the pieces not to be perfectly aligned and still slide into place. Matt --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I just finished solving my dogic, after the first time I'd ever > scrambled it! It took me about 1 hour and 34 minutes, seeing as how > I had absolutely no idea how to approach it after seeing it > scrambled. > > I think I figured out a good semi-efficient working solution > though. Going to try a time again in a bit. > > Anyway I have a question. My dogic is one of the new Mefferts > remakes and it tends to pop a bit if I'm not REALLY careful. > > Are there ways around this that anyone knows? I don't want to speed > solve, but I'd prefer to not have to do a 288 degree turn just > because my face doesn't want to turn the way I need it to turn. > > Anyway the dogic is awesome, and complicated! I had a few really > cool pops and could get a good look at the insides. I gather that > the triangle pieces of like colors are indistinct, but it took me a > minute to realize that the flips of those other pieces are just like > corners on a 3x3x3. > > So if I pop now I have a quicker way of knowing how the pieces go > back in. > > Anyway I'm going to try another time. This thing is fun! > > Chris

awww man. I want pops. Lol well, it seems like they're a safety. oh well thanks -parth [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well my BCD was today. For starters I lost my speedcube on the train to work. I was debating today about whether to bring it, because I had more luggage than usual. I decided I needed something to occupy my time so I brought it along, played with it on the train and then put it in my coat pocket. While I'm walking to work I'm like, where's my cube?? Uggh. Then I was tinkering with my Meffert's cube at work and of course it was locking up. I kept turning, as I usually do in a vain attempt to get it 'used' to imprecise turning. POW! The green side promptly exploded, and the center pin broke. Double uggh. Now all I've got is my pathetic little keychain with its stickers half- peeled off. Seeing what my luck has been today, I think I'm gonna leave it alone. Time to hit Ebay......

Ok so I'm sitting here preping a lot of new black DIY cubes and have a few hints for people. (Hem 140 posts behind.) The center caps keep falling off so they need to be glued on, right? Well on the white DIY, the caps stay on by themselves. What I have been doing tonight since I still would like to adjust the tension later is lay down a few dozen of these guys with the inside facing up, neaty aligned, and spraying a generous amount of "can spray glue" (lightly for a long duration as to prevent them from flying around - getting glue on the outside is BAD). Another thing, the zinc washers that Stefan and I use, don't quite fit into the center pieces... they do fit the white DIYs though. Thus I had to do quite a bit of forcing: Screw+washer+spring+washer+center piece+kernel I started out by applying a great amount of force (~50lbs lol) to get the washer in, but then I came to my senses and screwed the screw in until it sunk in and then backing it out just a bit (I recommend 2 mm for now, b4 putting on the pieces and doing a fine- tuning). To get this going, I sorted everything, collecting all the corners into one bag, edges into another, springs, screws, etc.... (I don't recommend the rivets at all; nor am I convinced of their *plastic* washers.) So why am I spending hours prepping all these cubes tonight, you might be curious to ask...? I am supposed to teach a topic of choice tommorrow to a classroom of grad students in engineering. It's part of a mandatory multi-session teaching thing I'm doing. It's some sort of GSI (grad student instructor) teacher-training thing for first-year instructors. Tommorrow I am supposed give a bit of a talk on a topic of choice and there will be a prize given to the best (most interactive/audience participation) speaker. It'll be taped too. I want to WIN obviously! So I wanted to make a classroom-set of (perhaps speed-) cubes :). Not sure if you can get more active participation than that! Getting late and I still have to make a handout of a "beginner solution"... hemmmmm.... I'm looking to be lazy now and use Jasmine's material (credited of course). BTW, the rubiks.com custom stickers kit SUCKS. Just wasted so much money... maybe we could get cubesmith to do something superior for us, eh? -Doug

Chris, It will be easier to play with once you break it in a little, I haven't lubed mine but I don't try to speedsolve it and it turns pretty well now that I've solved it a few times. Mostly it just sits there looking pretty though. The 10 Color Dogic, in case you haven't tried it is almost a completely different puzzle despite being the same mechanism as the regular 12 color Dogic. If you want a different challenge, the 10 Color Dogic is pretty tough, I'd say harder than the 12 color. They're both Fun though! -mike grimsley --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I just finished solving my dogic, after the first time I'd ever > scrambled it! It took me about 1 hour and 34 minutes, seeing as how > I had absolutely no idea how to approach it after seeing it > scrambled. > > I think I figured out a good semi-efficient working solution > though. Going to try a time again in a bit. > > Anyway I have a question. My dogic is one of the new Mefferts > remakes and it tends to pop a bit if I'm not REALLY careful. > > Are there ways around this that anyone knows? I don't want to speed > solve, but I'd prefer to not have to do a 288 degree turn just > because my face doesn't want to turn the way I need it to turn. > > Anyway the dogic is awesome, and complicated! I had a few really > cool pops and could get a good look at the insides. I gather that > the triangle pieces of like colors are indistinct, but it took me a > minute to realize that the flips of those other pieces are just like > corners on a 3x3x3. > > So if I pop now I have a quicker way of knowing how the pieces go > back in. > > Anyway I'm going to try another time. This thing is fun! > > Chris

You never can pass up the opportunity to teach a group something fun such as speedcubing :) It's a lot easier to do then teaching something like common sense or honesty :P Seriously though, good luck with the group. (So what is the consensus on these DIY cubes anyway? I've heard a lot of debate...) -Richard --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, d_funny007 <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Ok so I'm sitting here preping a lot of new black DIY cubes and have > a few hints for people. (Hem 140 posts behind.) > > The center caps keep falling off so they need to be glued on, right? > Well on the white DIY, the caps stay on by themselves. What I have > been doing tonight since I still would like to adjust the tension > later is lay down a few dozen of these guys with the inside facing > up, neaty aligned, and spraying a generous amount of "can spray > glue" (lightly for a long duration as to prevent them from flying > around - getting glue on the outside is BAD). > > Another thing, the zinc washers that Stefan and I use, don't quite > fit into the center pieces... they do fit the white DIYs though. > Thus I had to do quite a bit of forcing: > > Screw+washer+spring+washer+center piece+kernel > > I started out by applying a great amount of force (~50lbs lol) to > get the washer in, but then I came to my senses and screwed the > screw in until it sunk in and then backing it out just a bit (I > recommend 2 mm for now, b4 putting on the pieces and doing a fine- > tuning). > > To get this going, I sorted everything, collecting all the corners > into one bag, edges into another, springs, screws, etc.... (I don't > recommend the rivets at all; nor am I convinced of their *plastic* > washers.) > > So why am I spending hours prepping all these cubes tonight, you > might be curious to ask...? > > I am supposed to teach a topic of choice tommorrow to a classroom of > grad students in engineering. > > It's part of a mandatory multi-session teaching thing I'm doing. > It's some sort of GSI (grad student instructor) teacher-training > thing for first-year instructors. Tommorrow I am supposed give a bit > of a talk on a topic of choice and there will be a prize given to > the best (most interactive/audience participation) speaker. It'll be > taped too. I want to WIN obviously! > > So I wanted to make a classroom-set of (perhaps speed-) cubes :). > > Not sure if you can get more active participation than that! Getting > late and I still have to make a handout of a "beginner solution"... > hemmmmm.... I'm looking to be lazy now and use Jasmine's material > (credited of course). > > BTW, the rubiks.com custom stickers kit SUCKS. Just wasted so much > money... maybe we could get cubesmith to do something superior for > us, eh? > > > -Doug

My bcd is today definitely. I didnt break any cubes or such but i did a multitude of BLD solves and all were in vain. i always forgot the memorisation of the last step. A friend came by and sat to see my bld solve and even in front of him 4 corners were left unpermuted. Arrgh. it would have been nice if it had gone ok in front of him. maybe next time. Dont know what the rest of the day has to offer. On 9/14/05, kwickykanny <kwickykanny@...m> wrote: > Well my BCD was today. For starters I lost my speedcube on the train > to work. I was debating today about whether to bring it, because I had > more luggage than usual. I decided I needed something to occupy my > time so I brought it along, played with it on the train and then put it > in my coat pocket. While I'm walking to work I'm like, where's my > cube?? Uggh. > > Then I was tinkering with my Meffert's cube at work and of course it > was locking up. I kept turning, as I usually do in a vain attempt to > get it 'used' to imprecise turning. POW! The green side promptly > exploded, and the center pin broke. Double uggh. > > Now all I've got is my pathetic little keychain with its stickers half- > peeled off. Seeing what my luck has been today, I think I'm gonna > leave it alone. > > Time to hit Ebay...... > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

About the Rubik's DIY plastic washers: When my cube was about 4 months old, I removed the screws completely (after having not messed with them in a while) just to check on the status of things. Three of the plastic washers had disintegrated completely, two were cracked in half, and the last was a shell of its former self (worn very thin and brittle). I wish that I had checked on them sooner, as the springs did some damage to the insides of the centers. (I guess I should also flatten the ends of my springs like you smart people recommend.) Scott --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, d_funny007 <no_reply@y...> wrote: > To get this going, I sorted everything, collecting all the corners > into one bag, edges into another, springs, screws, etc.... (I > don't recommend the rivets at all; nor am I convinced of their > *plastic* washers.)

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Anyway I have a question. My dogic is one of the new Mefferts > remakes and it tends to pop a bit if I'm not REALLY careful. This was discussed at length on twistypuzzles.com http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3420 In particular, see the photos posted by Etienne de Foras on Jan 26. In my opinion, the problem in the second photo (with 2 red circles) is the worse of the 2 defects he describes. You can sand away the excess material quite easily, and this helps significantly. However, Stefan P has also mentioned (where?) that using weaker springs solves a lot of the new-dogic problem. Mike

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, mike_go_uk <no_reply@y...> wrote: > In particular, see the photos posted by Etienne de Foras on Jan 26. Sorry -- it was Jan 29. Mike

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, d_funny007 <no_reply@y. ..> wrote: > > The center caps keep falling off so they need to be glued on, right? Nope. I've cut the pins smaller so the cap fits into the cubie and made some scractches around the wall under the cap and cut the excess edges of the cap while sitting on/in the cubie and they stay perfectly. Without glue. I hate glue. > Another thing, the zinc washers that Stefan and I use, don't quite > fit into the center pieces... Mmh, that'd be sad. I thought they'd fit but admittedly I never tried it. The holes just looked as large as those of standard 80s cubes in which our washers fit nicely. > nor am I convinced of their *plastic* washers. So far I thought they're great but after reading that other post I should maybe check mine... > BTW, the rubiks.com custom stickers kit SUCKS. Just wasted so much > money... maybe we could get cubesmith to do something superior for > us, eh? Doesn't he already? Cheers! Stefan

Hi everybody, Unexpectedly, I finished at 2nd in Japanese Championship. Megahouse will sponsor me to WC2005. So I will be in Florida. I look forward to meeting with you guys again. In Japanese Championship, there were 77 competitors in 3x3 speed solving competition. Competitor's age varied from 7 to 72. Fastest time of oldest competitor was 61.56. I believe this must be the official world record of the oldest solver. Isn't it? I don't see any information about oldest solvers in unofficial records whereas there are lists about youngest solvers. Here is the question. Evenif he is the one, he is going to renew his own record everyday. I think we need to categorize elder solvers. He proposes age group for 60 and older cubers. I don't know how many old cubers are here. We also propose another age group for young cubers (12 and younger). How do you guys think about them? Masayuki

Did anyone who ordered the white DIY kits from rubiks.com get them with arched centers? Could you please show pictures? Bryan, you mentioned yours has arched centers and you wanted to show pictures but I never saw them... http://games.groups.yahoo. com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/message/17111 It has been a discussion here a while ago and it's now a discussion over at TPF: http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3976 (last posts in that thread) Cheers! Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, makimoto2000us <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Fastest time of oldest competitor was 61.56. > I believe this must be the official world record of the oldest > solver. > Isn't it? Oldest solver around here may be Rune Wesström - Final, Swedish Cube Day 2004: 44.90 (average) 38.74 (best) Definitely older than 72 last year. > He proposes age group for 60 and older cubers. This seems very arbitrary. Why not 35 years? ;) > We also propose another age group for young cubers (12 and younger). Ditto, but I expect most people will disagree with me. Mike

I have now had my 5by for a week and a half and have been able to solve for a week but i am having a major problem turning the thing. Does anyone know the best way to lube this thing. I am kinda afraid to just start taking it apart as I don't know how it go together. It seems nothing like a 3by. Initially it was taking me 35 min to solve but I am starting to cross over more algs from the 3by and they are all succesful(although confusing witht he mixed outer edge). The part that takes me the longest though is the orientation of wings to edge. I do orient to at a time always but i am coming up with the parity issue alot more than 50% of the time. any suggestions on this would also help me alot. Peace Chris www.rookrocks.com

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, mike_go_uk <no_reply@y. ..> wrote: > > > He proposes age group for 60 and older cubers. > > This seems very arbitrary. Why not 35 years? ;) Yeah, I suggest these groups instead, at least they make some sense: - 8 and younger - 27 and younger - 64 and younger - 125 and younger - 216 and younger Cheers! Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "randmthght" <wombat@r. ..> wrote: > > Does anyone know the best way to lube this thing. When asking something like this, always mention the type of puzzle you mean unless it's clear... > but i am coming up with the parity issue alot more than > 50% of the time. any suggestions on this would also help me alot. Simply solve more often ;-) Cheers! Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "randmthght" <wombat@r. > ..> wrote: > > > > Does anyone know the best way to lube this thing. > > When asking something like this, always mention the type of puzzle you > mean unless it's clear... > > > but i am coming up with the parity issue alot more than > > 50% of the time. any suggestions on this would also help me alot. > > Simply solve more often ;-) > > Cheers! > Stefan Sorry thought I had mentioned That I want to speed up the 5by cube(5x5x5). Thanks for the reply

Hi Doug, You're very welcome to use my beginner solution! :) Jasmine http://speedcuber.blogspot.com --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, d_funny007 <no_reply@y...> wrote: <snip> > Not sure if you can get more active participation than that! Getting > late and I still have to make a handout of a "beginner solution"... > hemmmmm.... I'm looking to be lazy now and use Jasmine's material > (credited of course). <snip> > -Doug

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > - 8 and younger > - 27 and younger > - 64 and younger > - 125 and younger > - 216 and younger Uh, of course they shouldn't overlap, so make it 28-64 etc. Also, care must be taken to prevent cheating. For example, society makes me round down and say I'm "28 years old" but I shouldn't be allowed to be listed as "28 and younger" since I'm actually (a few months) older than 28. Cheers! Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "randmthght" <wombat@r. ..> wrote: > > Sorry thought I had mentioned That I want to speed up the 5by > cube(5x5x5). Thanks for the reply Yes you did (in the subject) but there are still several types of 5x5 (current Rubik, old Rubik, Eastsheen, Meffert). At least the Eastsheen differs considerably from the others. Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "randmthght" <wombat@r. > ..> wrote: > > > > Sorry thought I had mentioned That I want to speed up the 5by > > cube(5x5x5). Thanks for the reply > > Yes you did (in the subject) but there are still several types of 5x5 > (current Rubik, old Rubik, Eastsheen, Meffert). At least the Eastsheen > differs considerably from the others. > > Stefan Ah I see. *grabs box. Current rubik by sevenstown I beleive. any suggetions :-)

I have meet one person long ago on this board that was going to school. I am from Tulsa and was wondering if their are any cubers in and about Tulsa. I want to start meetings or get togethers of some sort. I don't care how fast a person is really so long as they enjoy cubing. Personally I only average sub 45 on my 3by so I am not that fast. Any takers. Or does anyone know some people from this area

As usual a post from the postman tries to ridicule the original poster. I think the 35 and over category do make sense as it's an age often used in other sports. Terje -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com [mailto:speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com] På vegne av Stefan Pochmann Sendt: 14. september 2005 13:50 Til: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Emne: [Speed cubing group] Re: Age group --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, mike_go_uk <no_reply@y. ..> wrote: > > > He proposes age group for 60 and older cubers. > > This seems very arbitrary.  Why not 35 years? ;) Yeah, I suggest these groups instead, at least they make some sense: - 8 and younger - 27 and younger - 64 and younger - 125 and younger - 216 and younger Cheers! Stefan SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS •  Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web.   •  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   •  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > This seems very arbitrary. Why not 35 years? ;) > > Yeah, I suggest these groups instead, at least they make some sense: > <etc> Logical, but not very helpful. People get all sentimental about the old and the very young and then forget about the middle-aged, who in fact have much less free time to devote to cubing. This neglected and disadvantaged group needs some encouragement. We could start by introducing a special category for people born in the first six months of 1962. That might give me a sporting chance, anyhow. Mike

I know at one point two different groups were making a new timer. Has anyone heard anything of late.

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Terje Kristensen" <terje.kristensen@w...> wrote: > As usual a post from the postman tries to ridicule the original poster. I don't think so. > I think the 35 and over category do make sense as it's an age often used > in other sports. That's where the figure came from, but I don't think cubing is like tennis, say, where being over ~35 puts you at a huge disadvantage physically. Age categories seem rather patronizing to me in any case. "Under 12" and (especially) "over 60" would be very small groups in practice, so we'd just be saying: Here's a little competition you have a good chance of winning. And I don't think that would be doing a favour to anyone's self-respect. However, I appreciate that others may feel very differently about it. Mike

----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 1:49 PM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Age group > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, mike_go_uk <no_reply@y. > ..> wrote: > > > > > He proposes age group for 60 and older cubers. > > > > This seems very arbitrary. Why not 35 years? ;) > > Yeah, I suggest these groups instead, at least they make some sense: > 1 and younger? > - 8 and younger > - 27 and younger > - 64 and younger > - 125 and younger > - 216 and younger > > Cheers! > Stefan > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, mike_go_uk <no_reply@y...> wrote: > This neglected and disadvantaged group needs some encouragement. We > could start by introducing a special category for people born in the > first six months of 1962. How about a category for those born on Feb. 21, 1985 between 12:30 pm and 12:40 pm EST? ~ Bob

"Under 12" and (especially) "over 60" would be very small groups in practice, so > we'd just be saying: Here's a little competition you have a good > chance of winning. >And I don't think that would be doing a favour to > anyone's self-respect. Thanks for comments. But I think someone like evenif the competition is very small. If young kids have chance to get prizes, they must get into speedcubing world much deeper, then they can be another Macky or Séb astien. Is this bad for us? I think at least rewarding kids should facilitate expansion of our community. I agree 35 may be used for other sports. It may be good idea to set middle-aged. But I am not sure. Speedcubing is often compared with chess. Does anybody know how they handle with age group? Anyway, I respect those old peoples who spped-solve cubes. > However, I appreciate that others may feel very differently about it. Yes, I would like to hear from a lot of peoples. That is the reason why I posted here. Masayuki

Hello, > Just curious... Are other people looking for sponsorship? Or just > saving up for the trip? I too have found sponsorship from the company for which I work for, Geogia-Pacific Corp. www.gp.com. They aren't paying for everything, but they gave me enough to help me out a lot. Without their help I would not be able to go this time! Jon www.geocities.com/nascarjon2001

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, nascarjon2001 <no_reply@y...> wrote: > I too have found sponsorship from the company for which I work for, > Geogia-Pacific Corp. www.gp.com. They aren't paying for everything, > but they gave me enough to help me out a lot. Without their help I > would not be able to go this time! > > Jon > www.geocities.com/nascarjon2001 This is not only directed and Jon, but anyone that is being sponsored for the WC2005. How does sponsorship work in the cubing world? It is usually based on a give and take relationship. You are taking the money to put towards expenses. How do you give to the company to make it worth their money? Do you have to wear hats or shirts with the company name or logo displayed? Do you have to mention the company in interviews? And this is directed at anyone. I know this is not an issue now, but do we foresee there ever being political issues that arise from this type of relationship in the future (i.e. a cigarette company sponsoring someone, as one example)? -Dave

Isn't it correct that for a competition to be sanctioned by the WCA it had to have at least 10 competitiors and at least so many spectators (non cubers)? "Hope you have the time of your life" - GD Christy (Crispy) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

lol - agreement from me mike - March 1962! ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike_go_uk" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 1:30 PM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Age group > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > <pochmann@g...> wrote: >> > This seems very arbitrary. Why not 35 years? ;) >> >> Yeah, I suggest these groups instead, at least they make some sense: >> <etc> > > Logical, but not very helpful. People get all sentimental about the > old and the very young and then forget about the middle-aged, who in > fact have much less free time to devote to cubing. > > This neglected and disadvantaged group needs some encouragement. We > could start by introducing a special category for people born in the > first six months of 1962. That might give me a sporting chance, anyhow. > > Mike > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Terje Kristensen" <terje.kristensen@w...> wrote: > > As usual a post from the postman tries to ridicule the original poster. Do you mean me? > I think the 35 and over category do make sense as it's an age often used > in other sports. I don't know about other sports. I'm a cuber. So I think it's very natural to suggest cube numbers (8, 27, 64, 125) as limits. Did you realize this? This time I was *not* kidding. Also, I think 8 is a fine limit because kids that young are still quite small and have small hands so they're actually facing a problem that older people don't have. Also, there *are* a few cubing kids that young, so it's not an empty set. The 64 limit is also good, it gets fairly close to the 60 suggested before, and I think it's around when people retire from work which is a big change in life so putting the limit there would be nice. Also, both 8 and 64 are powers of 2, so they're nicely written as 1000 and 1000000 in binary which I hope everybody agrees is the coolest base. Cheers! Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "randmthght" <wombat@r. ..> wrote: > > Current rubik by sevenstown I beleive. any suggetions :-) Ok. I personally prefer to not use spray and to disassemble my puzzles for cleaning and lubing. Peter Greenwood a while ago made two nice pages about how to disassemble and assemble a rubiks.com 5x5: http://www.geocities.com/pjgat09/misc.html Cheers! Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, makimoto2000us <no_reply@y...> wrote: > "Under 12" and (especially) "over 60" would be very small groups in > practice, so > > we'd just be saying: Here's a little competition you have a good > > chance of winning. > >And I don't think that would be doing a favour to > > anyone's self-respect. > Thanks for comments. > But I think someone like evenif the competition is very small. > > If young kids have chance to get prizes, they must get into > speedcubing world much deeper, then they can be another Macky or Séb > astien. > > Is this bad for us? > I think at least rewarding kids should facilitate expansion of our > community. > I agree that a special category, "sub-12", would encourage young people and it's a good thing. *If* there are enough competitors to justify a special event. Gilles. > I agree 35 may be used for other sports. > It may be good idea to set middle-aged. > But I am not sure. > > Speedcubing is often compared with chess. > Does anybody know how they handle with age group? > > Anyway, I respect those old peoples who spped-solve cubes. Thanks ;-) > > > However, I appreciate that others may feel very differently about > it. > Yes, I would like to hear from a lot of peoples. > That is the reason why I posted here. > > Masayuki

> If young kids have chance to get prizes, they must get into > speedcubing world much deeper, then they can be another Macky or >Séb astien. > > Is this bad for us? > I think at least rewarding kids should facilitate expansion of our > community. > > Masayuki I totally agree with Masayuki on this point. I think we need to rewards the younger kids (7-8 or younger) who go to competitions. I mean this could be done with a kids event or something similar. We could even just give away medals or ribbons or whatever if you're under 10 or some set age. Or we could rank kids by age group (as the sport stacking (formerly cupstacking but they officially renamed) does. So kids could opt for the "official" 3x3 event, or to be ranked by their age groups. Again the sportstacking community is very big into promoting things for kids. Granted their sport is, in general, targeted more towards kids than adults but I've heard lots of stories of former kid stackers who stick with it. I think we should consider some sort of kids event. My sister is 5 years old right now, and of course there are always cubes around so whenever I'm home we'll play with the cube at least a little bit. She can't solve it, but she's getting really good at undoing 2 and 3 move scrambles from solved. I don't push things onto her very much because I just want her to enjoy cubing right now, and if she wants to speedcube later then I'll teach her all that stuff. Right now I just want her to enjoy the idea of playing with a cube. I think it would be cool, obviously time permitting of course, to let kids get awards. Perhaps a "sovle from n scrambled moves competition" for kids who can't solve yet. You could cap the participation at say 7-8 years old. Again this is all super-wishful thinking and I realize we don't have a lot of time for extra events. But as a "maybe one day" kind of thought I think we should at least consider trying to promote to kids that the cube is not impossible, just another fun puzzle. I'm trying to do the same with my sister, I don't want her to grow up thinking this thing is too hard, but rather be learning slowly but surely how to solve one by other cool little puzzles within the puzzle. Just my thoughts, but I agree with Masayuki, I think we should appeal to the younger kids more at competitions somehow. Chris

Hey everyone, How many (solved) combinations are there to the rubik's bricks? Say we fix the orientation of the red bars as from the back face to the front face. So now any solution is really 8 solutions as you can rotate that configuration of the pieces 8 different ways, but the cube is still put together the same way. So how many ways are there to solve this puzzle without overcounting the same puzzle pieces configuration (don't allow rotations I mean). I've already found 8 solutions. Well... counting rotations of course ;-) Seriously though, how many different internal configurations can there be to this puzzle? Chris

Hi Masayuki, Are you talking about having an entirely separate competition or just awarding prizes? Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 14, 2005, at 4:09 AM, makimoto2000us wrote: > Hi everybody, > > Unexpectedly, I finished at 2nd in Japanese Championship. Megahouse > will sponsor me to WC2005. So I will be in Florida. > I look forward to meeting with you guys again. > > In Japanese Championship, there were 77 competitors in 3x3 speed > solving competition. > Competitor's age varied from 7 to 72. > > Fastest time of oldest competitor was 61.56. > I believe this must be the official world record of the oldest > solver. > Isn't it? > > I don't see any information about oldest solvers in unofficial > records whereas there are lists about youngest solvers. > > Here is the question. > Evenif he is the one, he is going to renew his own record everyday. > I think we need to categorize elder solvers. > > He proposes age group for 60 and older cubers. > I don't know how many old cubers are here. > > We also propose another age group for young cubers (12 and younger). > > How do you guys think about them? > > Masayuki > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

During the Swedish Open last weekend, the age distribution of the competitors was as follows: below 13: 0 13-19: 8 20-29: 9 30-39: 0 ! (one was registered but severely injuded his hand a few days before the competition) 40-45: 7 above 45: 0 (Rune could not come) Interesting that nobody aged 30-39 showed up. Perhaps that generation is lost since they were too young during the cube hype during the eighties. /Anders --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Hi Masayuki, > > Are you talking about having an entirely separate competition or just > awarding prizes? > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 14, 2005, at 4:09 AM, makimoto2000us wrote: > > > Hi everybody, > > > > Unexpectedly, I finished at 2nd in Japanese Championship. Megahouse > > will sponsor me to WC2005. So I will be in Florida. > > I look forward to meeting with you guys again. > > > > In Japanese Championship, there were 77 competitors in 3x3 speed > > solving competition. > > Competitor's age varied from 7 to 72. > > > > Fastest time of oldest competitor was 61.56. > > I believe this must be the official world record of the oldest > > solver. > > Isn't it? > > > > I don't see any information about oldest solvers in unofficial > > records whereas there are lists about youngest solvers. > > > > Here is the question. > > Evenif he is the one, he is going to renew his own record everyday. > > I think we need to categorize elder solvers. > > > > He proposes age group for 60 and older cubers. > > I don't know how many old cubers are here. > > > > We also propose another age group for young cubers (12 and younger). > > > > How do you guys think about them? > > > > Masayuki > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

During the Swedish Open, SevenTowns supported us with quite a few prizes. So when the winners and Swedish Champions got their fair share, we let the youngest competitors (13-14 years old) pick items from the prize table. In this way we tried to encourage them to continue cubing. /Anders --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > If young kids have chance to get prizes, they must get into > > speedcubing world much deeper, then they can be another Macky or > >Séb astien. > > > > Is this bad for us? > > I think at least rewarding kids should facilitate expansion of our > > community. > > > > Masayuki > > I totally agree with Masayuki on this point. I think we need to > rewards the younger kids (7-8 or younger) who go to competitions. I > mean this could be done with a kids event or something similar. > > We could even just give away medals or ribbons or whatever if you're > under 10 or some set age. Or we could rank kids by age group (as > the sport stacking (formerly cupstacking but they officially > renamed) does. > > So kids could opt for the "official" 3x3 event, or to be ranked by > their age groups. > > Again the sportstacking community is very big into promoting things > for kids. > > Granted their sport is, in general, targeted more towards kids than > adults but I've heard lots of stories of former kid stackers who > stick with it. > > I think we should consider some sort of kids event. > > My sister is 5 years old right now, and of course there are always > cubes around so whenever I'm home we'll play with the cube at least > a little bit. > > She can't solve it, but she's getting really good at undoing 2 and 3 > move scrambles from solved. I don't push things onto her very much > because I just want her to enjoy cubing right now, and if she wants > to speedcube later then I'll teach her all that stuff. Right now I > just want her to enjoy the idea of playing with a cube. > > I think it would be cool, obviously time permitting of course, to > let kids get awards. > > Perhaps a "sovle from n scrambled moves competition" for kids who > can't solve yet. You could cap the participation at say 7-8 years > old. > > Again this is all super-wishful thinking and I realize we don't have > a lot of time for extra events. But as a "maybe one day" kind of > thought I think we should at least consider trying to promote to > kids that the cube is not impossible, just another fun puzzle. > > I'm trying to do the same with my sister, I don't want her to grow > up thinking this thing is too hard, but rather be learning slowly > but surely how to solve one by other cool little puzzles within the > puzzle. > > Just my thoughts, but I agree with Masayuki, I think we should > appeal to the younger kids more at competitions somehow. > > Chris

Anyone have any comments or suggestions? Is this better than stackmats? https://secure.rubiks.com/lvl3/index_lvl3.cfm?lan=eng&lvl1=produc&lvl2=rubbrn&lvl3=clasic&lvl4=rubtmr

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "darereck" <darereck@g. ..> wrote: > Anyone have any comments or suggestions? Is this better than stackmats? > > https://secure.rubiks.com/lvl3/index_lvl3.cfm? lan=eng&lvl1=produc&lvl2=rubbrn&lvl3=clasic&lvl4=rubtmr I just don't understand why they call hand pads "cumbersome". Aren't they an excellent way to ensure fair comparison? Stefan

As far as I remember the WCA rules, that's correct :-) Gilles. 2005/9/14, Crispy <redivre@...>: > Isn't it correct that for a competition to be > sanctioned by the WCA it had to have at least 10 > competitiors and at least so many spectators (non cubers)? > > "Hope you have the time of your life" - GD > Christy (Crispy)

wow! under 12 category ? I most welcome it, irrespective of number of competitors. It might be a big motivation for youngsters and the number of youngster in the competition will swell up in the coming events. Bernett Orlando mike_go_uk <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, makimoto2000us <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Fastest time of oldest competitor was 61.56. > I believe this must be the official world record of the oldest > solver. > Isn't it? Oldest solver around here may be Rune Wesström - Final, Swedish Cube Day 2004: 44.90 (average) 38.74 (best) Definitely older than 72 last year. > He proposes age group for 60 and older cubers. This seems very arbitrary. Why not 35 years? ;) > We also propose another age group for young cubers (12 and younger). Ditto, but I expect most people will disagree with me. Mike --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Whether or not it is 'better' is a personal issue and opinion. The fact remains that the timer is not endorsed by the WCA and will never be used in official WCA competitions. Times and records set with that timer cannot and will not be accepted with any authority whatsoever. Even by the rules set forth on the unofficial records pages, averages measured by that timer are unacceptable. Honestly, I felt pretty insulted that this guy designed a timer and tried to make it the 'official' timer for Rubik's Cube competitions without even consulting with the people who hold Rubik's Cube competitions. He had no authority to dictate the way I have done things. He hasn't spent the effort of running competitions. Whereas I appreciate his effort in making a timer, I am pretty convinced he designed it only for commercial gain and not for the benefit of the Rubik's Cube community. It would have been quite simple for him to see who was holding the competitions, how the competitions were being held, and just send off an e-mail to the people who spend their time and effort to run these competitions to see if they would be open to using a timer of that design and concept. Otherwise, criticism from the competition organizers could have been taken into account during the initial design stages of the timer. He could have worked with us to design a timer we would have liked, but he chose not to. You can spend $100 on a timer if you wish but I believe StackMats are now half that price. If you really want features such as generated scrambles and calculating of rolling averages, you should just download JNetCube instead. If having a timer that has these features on the road is THAT important to you and you are unable to leave your computer and go anywhere without JNetCube, I suggest you get a life. Cubing is great and it's wonderful and it's certainly an addicting hobby, but no one is ever going to make money as a cuber. Why? It takes very little time to get up to the top levels. Chess players dedicate their lives, practicing, studying 8 to 10 hours a day so they can play the game. I think if most people cubed 8 hours a day, studying the cube as a job, we'd be seeing 12 second averages all the time. Furthermore, if you forget to stop the hand pads at a competition, that's really your fault. The official timer of the WCA is currently the StackMat. I do not condone Rubik's for putting their "Official Seal of Approval" on their website regarding this timer, especially because they sponsor the WC 2005 and WC 2005 follows the regulations of the WCA which means they will be using StackMat timers. It is a sad reminder for me the honesty may only be present in the absence of commercial gain. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 14, 2005, at 11:36 AM, darereck wrote: > Anyone have any comments or suggestions? Is this better than stackmats? > > https://secure.rubiks.com/lvl3/index_lvl3.cfm? > lan=eng&lvl1=produc&lvl2=rubbrn&lvl3=clasic&lvl4=rubtmr > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

He was trying to use that as an excuse of why his timer was better than the StackMat. He fails to understand that timing of how one solves the Rubik's Cube can be defined and HAS been defined and that he, a man with no authority or knowledge in the Rubik's competition scene, tries to redefine definitions that we have given a great deal of consideration to. He has never been to a competition as far as I can tell. He has spent not a single second writing regulations and trying to design a structure of a competition that ensures fair play. He has no right to tell us how to run things. I am not an employee of Rubik and so I say this very loud and clear. If you want an official timer, buy a StackMat. If you're with Rubik and you're upset with me, you should have thought about this sooner... or design a timer which operates under the principals of the StackMat, or CONSULT US before trying to tell us what we should use in our competitions. So simpo. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 14, 2005, at 11:52 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > I just don't understand why they call hand pads "cumbersome". Aren't > they an excellent way to ensure fair comparison? > > Stefan

I hung up a few flyers around school, and i already got 1 hit!! No emails yet, but im still hopefull. I also found a teacher advisor for the club, so a few more people and we become a club :D Peter Greenwood --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, pjgat09 <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Well, I started talking to people act school, and i did not know > there were so many cubers! > > Theres one kid at my lunch who has heard about the LBL method, but im > not sure if he can solve. Another kid can actually using WC (and i > watched him) but he was terribly slow. Then there is anothet kid who > i taught to cube, then theirs me. Im sure theres more people that > would join, so ill have to make up flyers, maybe that will gain > interest. > > Hope this goes over well. Wish me luck! > > Peter Greenwood > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar > <sachinss@g...> wrote: > > No seriously. I am also starting a Cube club in my institute and > have > > started a yahoo group like this one and till now we have abt 30-35 > > members. I recently got cubes for many of them so they'll atleast > > start cubing when the cube is in front of them. Only abt 3-4 ppl are > > really interested though. > > > > Anyone has any hints on how to make cubing popular? Ofcourse I boast > > abt my avg to everyone who cares to listen and I posted abt my > > blindfold cubing on our newsgroup and everyone was really excited. > But > > that soon died down. :( > > > > Maybe i should start public cubing, but im a shy person and dont > > usually like to do this. Any other hints? > > > > Sachin. > > > > > > > > On 9/13/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, pjgat09 > <no_reply@y...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I need to gain interest for this club, what do you think is the > best > > > > way? > > > > > > Have Will Smith advertise it. > > > > > > Cheers! > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I suggest the following age groups: below 13 13-19 20-40 above 40 I believe that most competitors are in the 20 to 40 age range so this makes sense to me. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

First off I just want to say that I know no way wish to upset anyone, nor do I represent anyone but myself. I really think there is a lot of hostility towards a device no one has yet tried out. I actually think the timing (photocell) seems better than that of the StackMat, which I belive has some major flaws after seeing it in competition. Sure, it (the new timer) might not be perfect but is the StackMat really so great? Why not give it a try and see if we like it? Would it really be much of a problem if we changed to using this timer later on? The StackMat displays can still be used, old records could still be valid (and if not... it's not much of a problem since everyone is breaking records all the time)... I know you must feel offended by the fact that it is now "official". The fact that it is "official" is because it's now part of the Rubiks brand (like the Rubiks Cube is official, but knock-offs are not). I don't really think thats the inventors fault and to give him credit he asked for input on this list at least a couple of times. I know I at least took the time to write him a couple of mails with suggestions. I also like tha fact that I don't have to sit in front of my computer to use it. My computer is in an awkward place for cubing and taking some times sitting on the sofa or whereever I feel like would be much better for me. Of course I could do that with a StackMat too, but the StackMat won't count down or take averages. Is it really set in stone that this will never be accepted by the WCA? Once again I would just like to say that this is my personal opinion and since my toes didn't get stepped on personally by the making of this timer I of course have another point of view. Tyson Mao skrev: >He was trying to use that as an excuse of why his timer was better than >the StackMat. He fails to understand that timing of how one solves the >Rubik's Cube can be defined and HAS been defined and that he, a man >with no authority or knowledge in the Rubik's competition scene, tries >to redefine definitions that we have given a great deal of >consideration to. He has never been to a competition as far as I can >tell. He has spent not a single second writing regulations and trying >to design a structure of a competition that ensures fair play. He has >no right to tell us how to run things. > >I am not an employee of Rubik and so I say this very loud and clear. >If you want an official timer, buy a StackMat. If you're with Rubik >and you're upset with me, you should have thought about this sooner... >or design a timer which operates under the principals of the StackMat, >or CONSULT US before trying to tell us what we should use in our >competitions. > >So simpo. > >Tyson Mao >MSC #631 >California Institute of Technology > >On Sep 14, 2005, at 11:52 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > > > >>I just don't understand why they call hand pads "cumbersome". Aren't >>they an excellent way to ensure fair comparison? >> >>Stefan >> >> > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1.1217 (20050914) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.nod32.com > > > > >

----- Original Message ----- From: "al_yyz" <anders.larsson@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Age group > During the Swedish Open last weekend, the age distribution of the > competitors was as follows: > > below 13: 0 > 13-19: 8 > 20-29: 9 > 30-39: 0 ! (one was registered but severely injuded his hand a few > days before the competition) > 40-45: 7 > above 45: 0 (Rune could not come) > > Interesting that nobody aged 30-39 showed up. Perhaps that > generation is lost since they were too young during the cube hype > during the eighties. > > /Anders > [And the age distribution in the Swedish championship (final) 1981: 13-15:4 17-25:7] > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > wrote: > > Hi Masayuki, > > > > Are you talking about having an entirely separate competition or > just > > awarding prizes? > > > > Tyson Mao > > MSC #631 > > California Institute of Technology > > > > On Sep 14, 2005, at 4:09 AM, makimoto2000us wrote: > > > > > Hi everybody, > > > > > > Unexpectedly, I finished at 2nd in Japanese Championship. > Megahouse > > > will sponsor me to WC2005. So I will be in Florida. > > > I look forward to meeting with you guys again. > > > > > > In Japanese Championship, there were 77 competitors in 3x3 speed > > > solving competition. > > > Competitor's age varied from 7 to 72. > > > > > > Fastest time of oldest competitor was 61.56. > > > I believe this must be the official world record of the oldest > > > solver. > > > Isn't it? > > > > > > I don't see any information about oldest solvers in unofficial > > > records whereas there are lists about youngest solvers. > > > > > > Here is the question. > > > Evenif he is the one, he is going to renew his own record > everyday. > > > I think we need to categorize elder solvers. > > > > > > He proposes age group for 60 and older cubers. > > > I don't know how many old cubers are here. > > > > > > We also propose another age group for young cubers (12 and > younger). > > > > > > How do you guys think about them? > > > > > > Masayuki > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

To be sure it would have been better to have it tried in competition before becoming an "Official product" but could we not try it in a feew competitions and see hoiw it works. I agree that this should have been done before. We as a cubing community should give it a try before rejecting it altogether. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gustav Fredell To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Re: Rubik's Timer First off I just want to say that I know no way wish to upset anyone, nor do I represent anyone but myself. I really think there is a lot of hostility towards a device no one has yet tried out. I actually think the timing (photocell) seems better than that of the StackMat, which I belive has some major flaws after seeing it in competition. Sure, it (the new timer) might not be perfect but is the StackMat really so great? Why not give it a try and see if we like it? Would it really be much of a problem if we changed to using this timer later on? The StackMat displays can still be used, old records could still be valid (and if not... it's not much of a problem since everyone is breaking records all the time)... I know you must feel offended by the fact that it is now "official". The fact that it is "official" is because it's now part of the Rubiks brand (like the Rubiks Cube is official, but knock-offs are not). I don't really think thats the inventors fault and to give him credit he asked for input on this list at least a couple of times. I know I at least took the time to write him a couple of mails with suggestions. I also like tha fact that I don't have to sit in front of my computer to use it. My computer is in an awkward place for cubing and taking some times sitting on the sofa or whereever I feel like would be much better for me. Of course I could do that with a StackMat too, but the StackMat won't count down or take averages. Is it really set in stone that this will never be accepted by the WCA? Once again I would just like to say that this is my personal opinion and since my toes didn't get stepped on personally by the making of this timer I of course have another point of view. Tyson Mao skrev: >He was trying to use that as an excuse of why his timer was better than >the StackMat. He fails to understand that timing of how one solves the >Rubik's Cube can be defined and HAS been defined and that he, a man >with no authority or knowledge in the Rubik's competition scene, tries >to redefine definitions that we have given a great deal of >consideration to. He has never been to a competition as far as I can >tell. He has spent not a single second writing regulations and trying >to design a structure of a competition that ensures fair play. He has >no right to tell us how to run things. > >I am not an employee of Rubik and so I say this very loud and clear. >If you want an official timer, buy a StackMat. If you're with Rubik >and you're upset with me, you should have thought about this sooner... >or design a timer which operates under the principals of the StackMat, >or CONSULT US before trying to tell us what we should use in our >competitions. > >So simpo. > >Tyson Mao >MSC #631 >California Institute of Technology > >On Sep 14, 2005, at 11:52 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > > > >>I just don't understand why they call hand pads "cumbersome". Aren't >>they an excellent way to ensure fair comparison? >> >>Stefan >> >> > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1.1217 (20050914) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.nod32.com > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think trying to define direct categories is just stupid because everybody has his own idea. Maybe we should try to fix this on some sort of science basis. Like, when you are too small, your fingers are to small. .... then, we will try to define age limits. but first let's define what's different when you are younger or older. what do you think ?

I am also going to assume that this would apply to everyone? If this is the case then, how was the Chalmbers Competition Official since there are only 9 people on the board? I only ask because if that is the rule it should be the same for everyone - same with every other aspect of competitons. --- Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@...> wrote: > As far as I remember the WCA rules, that's correct > :-) > > Gilles. > > 2005/9/14, Crispy <redivre@...>: > > Isn't it correct that for a competition to be > > sanctioned by the WCA it had to have at least 10 > > competitiors and at least so many spectators (non > cubers)? > > > > "Hope you have the time of your life" - GD > > Christy (Crispy) > "Hope you have the time of your life" - GD Christy (Crispy) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Well, Chalmers Open 2005 indeed had ten competitors. The tenth, Geir Ugelstad, did not participate in the 3x3x3 speedcubing event, only in the 3x3x3 speed blindfolded event. The rules according to speedcubing.com are, I quote: - The competition must have at least 10 competitors. - There must be an audience of at least 6 persons, other than the competitors. Thus, the audience must be at least six persons and not ten. /Anders --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Crispy <redivre@y...> wrote: > I am also going to assume that this would apply to > everyone? If this is the case then, how was the > Chalmbers Competition Official since there are only 9 > people on the board? > > I only ask because if that is the rule it should be > the same for everyone - same with every other aspect > of competitons. > > --- Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> > wrote: > > > As far as I remember the WCA rules, that's correct > > :-) > > > > Gilles. > > > > 2005/9/14, Crispy <redivre@y...>: > > > Isn't it correct that for a competition to be > > > sanctioned by the WCA it had to have at least 10 > > > competitiors and at least so many spectators (non > > cubers)? > > > > > > "Hope you have the time of your life" - GD > > > Christy (Crispy) > > > > > "Hope you have the time of your life" - GD > Christy (Crispy) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com

Please stop trying to hinder other people from holding competitions. Unless there is a blatant breach of code or conduct, I see nothing wrong with holding a competition. So sad, Lesotho hasn't had a competition there. We should cut out California competitions to balance it out. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 14, 2005, at 1:52 PM, al_yyz wrote: > Well, Chalmers Open 2005 indeed had ten competitors. The tenth, Geir > Ugelstad, did not participate in the 3x3x3 speedcubing event, only > in the 3x3x3 speed blindfolded event. > > The rules according to speedcubing.com are, I quote: > > - The competition must have at least 10 competitors. > - There must be an audience of at least 6 persons, other than the > competitors. > > Thus, the audience must be at least six persons and not ten. > > /Anders > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Crispy <redivre@y...> > wrote: >> I am also going to assume that this would apply to >> everyone? If this is the case then, how was the >> Chalmbers Competition Official since there are only 9 >> people on the board? >> >> I only ask because if that is the rule it should be >> the same for everyone - same with every other aspect >> of competitons. >> >> --- Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> >> wrote: >> >>> As far as I remember the WCA rules, that's correct >>> :-) >>> >>> Gilles. >>> >>> 2005/9/14, Crispy <redivre@y...>: >>>> Isn't it correct that for a competition to be >>>> sanctioned by the WCA it had to have at least 10 >>>> competitiors and at least so many spectators (non >>> cubers)? >>>> >>>> "Hope you have the time of your life" - GD >>>> Christy (Crispy) >>> >> >> >> "Hope you have the time of your life" - GD >> Christy (Crispy) >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

I sent him some ideas via his web feedback form. I told him we didn't want to adopt his timer as the official timer because it worked on a different principle than the stackmat and in order to facilitate a bridge between the timers, he should include attachable handpads as a means of starting and stopping the timer. So to my credit, I sent in feedback. Furthermore, what you decide to do and what you prefer, such as having a computer screen in front of you, or not liking a computer screen, or whatever your preference, does not concern a competition. The competition is not about making things comfortable for everyone. It's about ensuring a fair environment with set standards. We've gone through this countless of times. I'm so tired of having to explain the same things over and over again. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Douthwright" <pdouthwright0513@r...> wrote: > To be sure it would have been better to have it tried in competition before becoming an "Official product" > > but could we not try it in a feew competitions and see hoiw it works. I agree that this should have been done before. We as a cubing community should give it a try before rejecting it altogether. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gustav Fredell > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 3:34 PM > Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Re: Rubik's Timer > > > First off I just want to say that I know no way wish to upset anyone, > nor do I represent anyone but myself. > > I really think there is a lot of hostility towards a device no one has > yet tried out. I actually think the timing (photocell) seems better than > that of the StackMat, which I belive has some major flaws after seeing > it in competition. Sure, it (the new timer) might not be perfect but is > the StackMat really so great? Why not give it a try and see if we like > it? Would it really be much of a problem if we changed to using this > timer later on? The StackMat displays can still be used, old records > could still be valid (and if not... it's not much of a problem since > everyone is breaking records all the time)... > > I know you must feel offended by the fact that it is now "official". The > fact that it is "official" is because it's now part of the Rubiks brand > (like the Rubiks Cube is official, but knock-offs are not). I don't > really think thats the inventors fault and to give him credit he asked > for input on this list at least a couple of times. I know I at least > took the time to write him a couple of mails with suggestions. > > I also like tha fact that I don't have to sit in front of my computer to > use it. My computer is in an awkward place for cubing and taking some > times sitting on the sofa or whereever I feel like would be much better > for me. Of course I could do that with a StackMat too, but the StackMat > won't count down or take averages. > > Is it really set in stone that this will never be accepted by the WCA? > > Once again I would just like to say that this is my personal opinion and > since my toes didn't get stepped on personally by the making of this > timer I of course have another point of view. > > Tyson Mao skrev: > > >He was trying to use that as an excuse of why his timer was better than > >the StackMat. He fails to understand that timing of how one solves the > >Rubik's Cube can be defined and HAS been defined and that he, a man > >with no authority or knowledge in the Rubik's competition scene, tries > >to redefine definitions that we have given a great deal of > >consideration to. He has never been to a competition as far as I can > >tell. He has spent not a single second writing regulations and trying > >to design a structure of a competition that ensures fair play. He has > >no right to tell us how to run things. > > > >I am not an employee of Rubik and so I say this very loud and clear. > >If you want an official timer, buy a StackMat. If you're with Rubik > >and you're upset with me, you should have thought about this sooner... > >or design a timer which operates under the principals of the StackMat, > >or CONSULT US before trying to tell us what we should use in our > >competitions. > > > >So simpo. > > > >Tyson Mao > >MSC #631 > >California Institute of Technology > > > >On Sep 14, 2005, at 11:52 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > > > > > > > >>I just don't understand why they call hand pads "cumbersome". Aren't > >>they an excellent way to ensure fair comparison? > >> > >>Stefan > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1.1217 (20050914) Information __________ > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > >http://www.nod32.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle > Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi! To me the decision alo seems very easy. The stackmat timer has been around for a long time already, besides for cupstacking also as a cubing (and other twisty puzzles) timing device. It costs much less and is more handy to transport. Im not gonna discuss any technical issues. But the way competitions are organised and run, at the moment the new timer's extra functionality seems redundant. It's just my opinion. Don't shoot me ;-) Cheers! -Per PS! As i have posted before a better idea would have been to sell the new timer using different channels in order to keep the price down. The future will tell which one we eventually gonna use ... > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gustav Fredell <gufr5747@s...> wrote: > First off I just want to say that I know no way wish to upset anyone, > nor do I represent anyone but myself. > > I really think there is a lot of hostility towards a device no one has > yet tried out. I actually think the timing (photocell) seems better than > that of the StackMat, which I belive has some major flaws after seeing > it in competition. Sure, it (the new timer) might not be perfect but is > the StackMat really so great? Why not give it a try and see if we like > it? Would it really be much of a problem if we changed to using this > timer later on? The StackMat displays can still be used, old records > could still be valid (and if not... it's not much of a problem since > everyone is breaking records all the time)... > > I know you must feel offended by the fact that it is now "official". The > fact that it is "official" is because it's now part of the Rubiks brand > (like the Rubiks Cube is official, but knock-offs are not). I don't > really think thats the inventors fault and to give him credit he asked > for input on this list at least a couple of times. I know I at least > took the time to write him a couple of mails with suggestions. > > I also like tha fact that I don't have to sit in front of my computer to > use it. My computer is in an awkward place for cubing and taking some > times sitting on the sofa or whereever I feel like would be much better > for me. Of course I could do that with a StackMat too, but the StackMat > won't count down or take averages. > > Is it really set in stone that this will never be accepted by the WCA? > > Once again I would just like to say that this is my personal opinion and > since my toes didn't get stepped on personally by the making of this > timer I of course have another point of view. > > Tyson Mao skrev: > > >He was trying to use that as an excuse of why his timer was better than > >the StackMat. He fails to understand that timing of how one solves the > >Rubik's Cube can be defined and HAS been defined and that he, a man > >with no authority or knowledge in the Rubik's competition scene, tries > >to redefine definitions that we have given a great deal of > >consideration to. He has never been to a competition as far as I can > >tell. He has spent not a single second writing regulations and trying > >to design a structure of a competition that ensures fair play. He has > >no right to tell us how to run things. > > > >I am not an employee of Rubik and so I say this very loud and clear. > >If you want an official timer, buy a StackMat. If you're with Rubik > >and you're upset with me, you should have thought about this sooner... > >or design a timer which operates under the principals of the StackMat, > >or CONSULT US before trying to tell us what we should use in our > >competitions. > > > >So simpo. > > > >Tyson Mao > >MSC #631 > >California Institute of Technology > > > >On Sep 14, 2005, at 11:52 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > > > > > > > >>I just don't understand why they call hand pads "cumbersome". Aren't > >>they an excellent way to ensure fair comparison? > >> > >>Stefan > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1.1217 (20050914) Information __________ > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > >http://www.nod32.com > > > > > > > > > >

Okay. Uhm...how the hell could I be expected to solve the magic (and especially the master magic) on that thing? --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "darereck" <darereck@g...> wrote: > Anyone have any comments or suggestions? Is this better than stackmats? > > https://secure.rubiks.com/lvl3/index_lvl3.cfm?lan=eng&lvl1=produc&lvl2=rubbrn&lvl3=clasic&lvl4=rubtmr

All right, For the people said the StackMat timer has flaws, I encourage you to bring them up. Now, keep in mind, I'm not after flaws like, "It doesn't allow us to calculate averages." because things like that don't concern us in a competition. What you prefer in your own home is not my business. If you'd like to purchase the new timer for your own home use, go ahead. What I'm looking for are competition flaws with the StackMat timer. What is a flaw with the StackMat that allows loopholes in fair play? And please don't try to give me the "starting and stopping the timer isn't a part of solving the cube" because it is and I've explained that a countless number of times. And don't give me arguments about hitting the reset buttons either because that's your own fault. And if you try to say it's not your fault, we're all going to think in some manner of you because you are basically saying you lack the skill and finesse to 'not' hit the reset button. Seriously, the guy solves a Rubik's Cube in like, 20 seconds and he can't avoid hitting a button? What competition flaws does the StackMat have? We all have our preferences, but we have to put those aside when trying to come up with a standard. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gustav Fredell <gufr5747@s...> wrote: > I really think there is a lot of hostility towards a device no one has > yet tried out. I actually think the timing (photocell) seems better than > that of the StackMat, which I belive has some major flaws after seeing > it in competition. Sure, it (the new timer) might not be perfect but is > the StackMat really so great? Why not give it a try and see if we like > it? Would it really be much of a problem if we changed to using this > timer later on? The StackMat displays can still be used, old records > could still be valid (and if not... it's not much of a problem since > everyone is breaking records all the time)... This leads to the possibility of a record being set by current standards still being faster than if you were to use the new timer and get a faster time with the new timer that would have been slower by old standards. Basically, you throw 2 years of competitions statistics out the window. > > I know you must feel offended by the fact that it is now "official". The > fact that it is "official" is because it's now part of the Rubiks brand > (like the Rubiks Cube is official, but knock-offs are not). I don't > really think thats the inventors fault and to give him credit he asked > for input on this list at least a couple of times. I know I at least > took the time to write him a couple of mails with suggestions. It IS the inventor's fault because he chose to get it approved by SevenTowns. No? > I also like tha fact that I don't have to sit in front of my computer to > use it. My computer is in an awkward place for cubing and taking some > times sitting on the sofa or whereever I feel like would be much better > for me. Of course I could do that with a StackMat too, but the StackMat > won't count down or take averages. Hrmm...how about printing 50 scrambles and taking them with you (a .00x ounce sheet of paper!) and then entering them into a spreadsheet? Side note: (For example) For timing the magic, you would a different timer, so you would have to use stackmats anyway! It doesn't look like it fits. :-P ~ Bob

I AM I AM! Not near Tulsa, though. I'm at OU in Norman for the time being. Though I do vaguely recall perhaps talking with you when I lived in Edmond. I'd definately like to get together sometime (my girlfriend and I are looking to visit your aquarium up there, when we do I'll be sure to let you know). I also know 3-4 cubers down here in Norman (including one I had the pleasure of meeting just today) who might be interested in getting together some time for some good old fashioned cube madness. Finding good ground between Tulsa and Norman shouldn't be too hard, and I'd definately be up for it. Feel free to e-mail me off-group at swedishlf at hotmail dot com . Cheers, Daniel --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "randmthght" <wombat@r...> wrote: > I have meet one person long ago on this board that was going to > school. I am from Tulsa and was wondering if their are any cubers in > and about Tulsa. I want to start meetings or get togethers of some > sort. I don't care how fast a person is really so long as they enjoy > cubing. Personally I only average sub 45 on my 3by so I am not that fast. > > Any takers. Or does anyone know some people from this area

LOL. Damn right! =) --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> wrote: > Okay. Uhm...how the hell could I be expected to solve the magic (and > especially the master magic) on that thing? > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "darereck" > <darereck@g...> wrote: > > Anyone have any comments or suggestions? Is this better than stackmats? > > > > > https://secure.rubiks.com/lvl3/index_lvl3.cfm?lan=eng&lvl1=produc&lvl2=rubbrn&lvl3=clasic&lvl4=rubtmr

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> wrote: > > Okay. Uhm...how the hell could I be expected to solve the magic (and > especially the master magic) on that thing? I hope you'll get an answer. I asked the same about 10000 posts ago and didn't get a response yet: http://tinyurl.com/7w5l5 Cheers! Stefan

I failed to notice that the one person only competed in the one event - my oversight. I was just understanding that there had to be 10 competitors and I just took it at least one event had to have 10 people. I must of just deciphered the rules. I am not trying to hinder people from holding competitions. But while ago you threw out that an offical comp had to have 10 competitors and no less - I was just clarifying what I was understanding. Thanks to Anders for clearing that up --- Tyson Mao <tmao@...> wrote: > Please stop trying to hinder other people from > holding competitions. > Unless there is a blatant breach of code or conduct, > I see nothing > wrong with holding a competition. > > So sad, Lesotho hasn't had a competition there. We > should cut out > California competitions to balance it out. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 14, 2005, at 1:52 PM, al_yyz wrote: > > > Well, Chalmers Open 2005 indeed had ten > competitors. The tenth, Geir > > Ugelstad, did not participate in the 3x3x3 > speedcubing event, only > > in the 3x3x3 speed blindfolded event. > > > > The rules according to speedcubing.com are, I > quote: > > > > - The competition must have at least 10 > competitors. > > - There must be an audience of at least 6 persons, > other than the > > competitors. > > > > Thus, the audience must be at least six persons > and not ten. > > > > /Anders > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, > Crispy <redivre@y...> > > wrote: > >> I am also going to assume that this would apply > to > >> everyone? If this is the case then, how was the > >> Chalmbers Competition Official since there are > only 9 > >> people on the board? > >> > >> I only ask because if that is the rule it should > be > >> the same for everyone - same with every other > aspect > >> of competitons. > >> > >> --- Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> As far as I remember the WCA rules, that's > correct > >>> :-) > >>> > >>> Gilles. > >>> > >>> 2005/9/14, Crispy <redivre@y...>: > >>>> Isn't it correct that for a competition to be > >>>> sanctioned by the WCA it had to have at least > 10 > >>>> competitiors and at least so many spectators > (non > >>> cubers)? > >>>> > >>>> "Hope you have the time of your life" - GD > >>>> Christy (Crispy) > >>> > >> > >> > >> "Hope you have the time of your life" - GD > >> Christy (Crispy) > >> > >> > __________________________________________________ > >> Do You Yahoo!? > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Hope you have the time of your life" - GD Christy (Crispy) __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com

Easy! Change the rules! Solve from one compact form to another. I'm not sure what they gonna be cause i don't even own a magic :-P Haha ... -Per PS! What happens if u accidentally drop the cube on the new timer? > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> > wrote: > > > > Okay. Uhm...how the hell could I be expected to solve the magic > (and > > especially the master magic) on that thing? > > I hope you'll get an answer. I asked the same about 10000 posts ago > and didn't get a response yet: > http://tinyurl.com/7w5l5 > > Cheers! > Stefan

On 9/14/05, Per Kristen Fredlund <aspiring_to_love@...> wrote: > > PS! What happens if u accidentally drop the cube on the new timer? > You get a really good time :) -Chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Soesbe" <yeff@y...> wrote: > Hello -- > > I'm wondering if any cubers on this list are in the area of Sacramento > or Davis California, and if any of them are going to the NorCal > contest on Sat, Sept 17? > > I'm in Sacramento, and heading down - I thought it'd be a good chance > to meet up and see about forming a group or a club. > > I know of myself (in Sacramento) and Jeremy Dixon (in Roseville). > Anyone else?? > > yeff This is really strange... I live in Davis! It's odd you would ask about cubers in such a small town, but surely enough, I'm here. I'm 16 and go to Davis High, and I wasn't planning on going to the contest. I've never been nor competed in any of them before. I'd like to finally meet some other cubers, and I might be interested in a group or club. I don't lnow of anyne else in Davis who is active in this community. I only know one other person at my school who can cube. Andrew

I know you may think you have explained this before but could you do so again. In my humble opinion: the duty of a timing device is to record the time NOT be a part of the solve. The faster you can stop a timer the more accurate the time actually is. Having to hit one pad in my opinion is faster the having to hit two. But I still agree that these new timers need to be field tested in order to demonstrate their accuracy and stability. And please don't try to give me the "starting and stopping the timer isn't a part of solving the cube" because it is and I've explained that a countless number of times. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for your positive comments. Anders: >We let the youngest competitors (13-14 years old) pick items >from the prize table. In this way we tried to encourage them to >continue cubing. The youngest and oldest cubers should be different in each competition. This is one way. Tyson: >Are you talking about having an entirely separate competition or just >awarding prizes? It depends how may kids are there and how fast they are. If we have, let's say, more than 10 kids, may be we can have separate competition. If the number is small, we can include them into regular competition. They still have chance to set true official world record. I worry if we separate kids competition completely, someone may argue about their record when he/she set a world record by chance. I hear a lot of positive comments about world ranking lists (Thanks Ron) evenif they rank close to bottom. Chris: >So kids could opt for the "official" 3x3 event, or to be ranked by >their age groups. >The sportstacking community is very big into promoting things >for kids. >I think we should consider some sort of kids event. I also hope to have a world ranking in age group at least for kids. Masayuki

Accurate for what? How are you defining accurate? We've defined accurate and we've defined the time of the solve to be from when the competitor lifts up his hands to when the competitor places his hands down. Being "faster" does not mean more accurate. People who would otherwise receive two second penalties would not because they could correct their error after the time has been stopped. Using two hands and the hand pads ENSURES that the cuber cannot manipulate the cube before time is started and must stop manipulating the cube before time is stopped. The word 'accurate' and the words 'time of solving the cube' have been defined by people who spent many hours thinking of ways to make sure all cube solve are uniform and no one has an advantage over anyone else. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 14, 2005, at 4:05 PM, Peter Douthwright wrote: > I know you may think you have explained this before but could you do > so again. In my humble opinion: > the duty of a timing device is to record the time NOT be a part of the > solve. The faster you can stop a > timer the more accurate the time actually is. Having to hit one pad in > my opinion is faster the having to hit two. > > But I still agree that these new timers need to be field tested in > order to demonstrate their accuracy and > stability.

As long as the fundamental rankings list is not altered, I think it might be enjoyable for today's youth to see themselves in their own list. However, I also kind of feel this is not as significant as other events. Cubing does not take that much time to excel at and I don't really see young children being disadvantaged at the cube compared to adults. Imagine two years ago if we had a 13 and under division. The number one kid would have been the number one in the world. We might want to consider at what age in cubing to kids become 'adults'. Children in events such as chess have not had as much experience. Now, children in cubing don't has as much experience either, but the time scale for mastery of the cube is far less than chess. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 14, 2005, at 4:12 PM, makimoto2000us wrote: > Thanks for your positive comments. > > Anders: >> We let the youngest competitors (13-14 years old) pick items >> from the prize table. In this way we tried to encourage them to >> continue cubing. > The youngest and oldest cubers should be different in each > competition. > This is one way. > > Tyson: >> Are you talking about having an entirely separate competition or > just >> awarding prizes? > It depends how may kids are there and how fast they are. > If we have, let's say, more than 10 kids, may be we can have > separate competition. > If the number is small, we can include them into regular > competition. > They still have chance to set true official world record. > > I worry if we separate kids competition completely, someone may > argue about their record when he/she set a world record by chance. > > > I hear a lot of positive comments about world ranking lists (Thanks > Ron) evenif they rank close to bottom. > > Chris: >> So kids could opt for the "official" 3x3 event, or to be ranked by >> their age groups. >> The sportstacking community is very big into promoting things >> for kids. >> I think we should consider some sort of kids event. > > I also hope to have a world ranking in age group at least for kids. > > Masayuki > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Wouldn't it suck if a piece fell out onto the photocell and stopped your time? Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 14, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Chris Hunt wrote: > On 9/14/05, Per Kristen Fredlund <aspiring_to_love@...> wrote: >> >> PS! What happens if u accidentally drop the cube on the new timer? >> > > You get a really good time :) > > -Chris > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

if this is about the gen2 timers... i recently got a timer, but for some reason, it turns off at random points of time. i have no idea why, but i suspect that maybe the battery is low or something. has anyone else come across this problem?? thats the only real problem i can think of. the reset thing you can get used to, and in my opinion its a little more sensitive, which is kinda nice. anyways, just my 2 cents On 9/14/05, Tyson Mao <tmao@its.caltech.edu> wrote: > Accurate for what? How are you defining accurate? > > We've defined accurate and we've defined the time of the solve to be > from when the competitor lifts up his hands to when the competitor > places his hands down. Being "faster" does not mean more accurate. > People who would otherwise receive two second penalties would not > because they could correct their error after the time has been stopped. > Using two hands and the hand pads ENSURES that the cuber cannot > manipulate the cube before time is started and must stop manipulating > the cube before time is stopped. > > The word 'accurate' and the words 'time of solving the cube' have been > defined by people who spent many hours thinking of ways to make sure > all cube solve are uniform and no one has an advantage over anyone > else. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 14, 2005, at 4:05 PM, Peter Douthwright wrote: > > > I know you may think you have explained this before but could you do > > so again. In my humble opinion: > > the duty of a timing device is to record the time NOT be a part of the > > solve. The faster you can stop a > > timer the more accurate the time actually is. Having to hit one pad in > > my opinion is faster the having to hit two. > > > > But I still agree that these new timers need to be field tested in > > order to demonstrate their accuracy and > > stability. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

That's really odd. The timer has an automatic shut off after 10 minutes, but it shouldn't be shutting off randomly. If the battery is low, the timer should display 'low battery' each time after you stop the solve. You should probably call speedstacks and ask them if they know what's wrong, if you can get a replacement, or whatever as I imagine your timer is very new. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 14, 2005, at 4:59 PM, Sapan Upadhyay wrote: > if this is about the gen2 timers... > > i recently got a timer, but for some reason, it turns off at random > points of time. i have no idea why, but i suspect that maybe the > battery is low or something. has anyone else come across this > problem?? > > thats the only real problem i can think of. the reset thing you can > get used to, and in my opinion its a little more sensitive, which is > kinda nice. anyways, just my 2 cents > > On 9/14/05, Tyson Mao <tmao@...> wrote: >> Accurate for what? How are you defining accurate? >> >> We've defined accurate and we've defined the time of the solve to be >> from when the competitor lifts up his hands to when the competitor >> places his hands down. Being "faster" does not mean more accurate. >> People who would otherwise receive two second penalties would not >> because they could correct their error after the time has been >> stopped. >> Using two hands and the hand pads ENSURES that the cuber cannot >> manipulate the cube before time is started and must stop manipulating >> the cube before time is stopped. >> >> The word 'accurate' and the words 'time of solving the cube' have been >> defined by people who spent many hours thinking of ways to make sure >> all cube solve are uniform and no one has an advantage over anyone >> else. >> >> Tyson Mao >> MSC #631 >> California Institute of Technology >> >> On Sep 14, 2005, at 4:05 PM, Peter Douthwright wrote: >> >>> I know you may think you have explained this before but could you do >>> so again. In my humble opinion: >>> the duty of a timing device is to record the time NOT be a part of >>> the >>> solve. The faster you can stop a >>> timer the more accurate the time actually is. Having to hit one pad >>> in >>> my opinion is faster the having to hit two. >>> >>> But I still agree that these new timers need to be field tested in >>> order to demonstrate their accuracy and >>> stability. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > -cubekid > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Yea, see I thought it was the 10 minute thing at first as well. But then i realized that I was solving a 4x4 and i usually average just above 2 minutes :-/ And then it started happening to my brother when he was doing speedstacks (which takes under 20 seconds). Though it seems very strange if the battery was low, as it did that the day we opened it :-/ I'll call them and find out. Though this brings up a question. What if a timer like this ends up in a competition and does this during a solve?? On 9/14/05, Tyson Mao <tmao@...> wrote: > That's really odd. The timer has an automatic shut off after 10 > minutes, but it shouldn't be shutting off randomly. If the battery is > low, the timer should display 'low battery' each time after you stop > the solve. You should probably call speedstacks and ask them if they > know what's wrong, if you can get a replacement, or whatever as I > imagine your timer is very new. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 14, 2005, at 4:59 PM, Sapan Upadhyay wrote: > > > if this is about the gen2 timers... > > > > i recently got a timer, but for some reason, it turns off at random > > points of time. i have no idea why, but i suspect that maybe the > > battery is low or something. has anyone else come across this > > problem?? > > > > thats the only real problem i can think of. the reset thing you can > > get used to, and in my opinion its a little more sensitive, which is > > kinda nice. anyways, just my 2 cents > > > > On 9/14/05, Tyson Mao <tmao@...> wrote: > >> Accurate for what? How are you defining accurate? > >> > >> We've defined accurate and we've defined the time of the solve to be > >> from when the competitor lifts up his hands to when the competitor > >> places his hands down. Being "faster" does not mean more accurate. > >> People who would otherwise receive two second penalties would not > >> because they could correct their error after the time has been > >> stopped. > >> Using two hands and the hand pads ENSURES that the cuber cannot > >> manipulate the cube before time is started and must stop manipulating > >> the cube before time is stopped. > >> > >> The word 'accurate' and the words 'time of solving the cube' have been > >> defined by people who spent many hours thinking of ways to make sure > >> all cube solve are uniform and no one has an advantage over anyone > >> else. > >> > >> Tyson Mao > >> MSC #631 > >> California Institute of Technology > >> > >> On Sep 14, 2005, at 4:05 PM, Peter Douthwright wrote: > >> > >>> I know you may think you have explained this before but could you do > >>> so again. In my humble opinion: > >>> the duty of a timing device is to record the time NOT be a part of > >>> the > >>> solve. The faster you can stop a > >>> timer the more accurate the time actually is. Having to hit one pad > >>> in > >>> my opinion is faster the having to hit two. > >>> > >>> But I still agree that these new timers need to be field tested in > >>> order to demonstrate their accuracy and > >>> stability. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > -cubekid > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

----- Original Message ----- From: Tyson Mao To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 7:31 PM Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] StackMat Timers Accurate for what? How are you defining accurate? Accurate is this context is the time to solve the puzzle. period Have you ever completed a puzzle and not hit both handpads at the same time, or not hit them hard enough. Having to hit a hand pad at all automatically increases the time after completing the puzzle. Having to place the completed puzzle on one timing device in my opinion would make this step faster and closer to the truer time of the solve. We've defined accurate and we've defined the time of the solve to be from when the competitor lifts up his hands to when the competitor places his hands down. Being "faster" does not mean more accurate. I thought this was the whole idea behind speedcubing. the be the fastest. People who would otherwise receive two second penalties would not because they could correct their error after the time has been stopped. This is why you have judges at the competitions to ensure this does not happen. Anyone correcting their errors after the time is stopped or manipulating their puzzle before starting the timer should be DQ. Using two hands and the hand pads ENSURES that the cuber cannot manipulate the cube before time is started and must stop manipulating the cube before time is stopped. The word 'accurate' and the words 'time of solving the cube' have been defined by people who spent many hours thinking of ways to make sure all cube solve are uniform and no one has an advantage over anyone else. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 14, 2005, at 4:05 PM, Peter Douthwright wrote: > I know you may think you have explained this before but could you do > so again. In my humble opinion: > the duty of a timing device is to record the time NOT be a part of the > solve. The faster you can stop a > timer the more accurate the time actually is. Having to hit one pad in > my opinion is faster the having to hit two. > > But I still agree that these new timers need to be field tested in > order to demonstrate their accuracy and > stability. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- thewetdog wrote: > How does sponsorship work in the cubing world? ... How do you give > to the company to make it worth their money? Do you have to wear > hats or shirts with the company name or logo displayed? Do you have > to mention the company in interviews? For me, it's the first option - a shirt and/or hat. Nothing was said about interviews. Regardless, while I hope it can be worth their expense, you also have to keep in mind that an event like this is relatively cheap, from a company's perspective. > ... do we foresee there ever being political issues that arise ... > (i.e. a cigarette company sponsoring someone, as one example)? I don't think there are any regulations at this point, keeping people from wearing shirts (or other articles of clothing) that display "offensive" or "controversial" content. A rule to that effect could avoid the potential for a problem like this, but could also give rise to other issues that may be more difficult to resolve. That said, I don't really anticipate any problems. - Grant

Actually, if you read the rules, there is an article about offensive clothing. :) ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Tregay" <Grant@T...> wrote: > --- thewetdog wrote: > > How does sponsorship work in the cubing world? ... How do you give > > to the company to make it worth their money? Do you have to wear > > hats or shirts with the company name or logo displayed? Do you have > > to mention the company in interviews? > > For me, it's the first option - a shirt and/or hat. Nothing was said > about interviews. Regardless, while I hope it can be worth their > expense, you also have to keep in mind that an event like this is > relatively cheap, from a company's perspective. > > > ... do we foresee there ever being political issues that arise ... > > (i.e. a cigarette company sponsoring someone, as one example)? > > I don't think there are any regulations at this point, keeping people > from wearing shirts (or other articles of clothing) that > display "offensive" or "controversial" content. A rule to that > effect could avoid the potential for a problem like this, but could > also give rise to other issues that may be more difficult to > resolve. That said, I don't really anticipate any problems. > > - Grant

The true time of the solve is when the competitor stops the timer. Sure, be the fastest within the confines of the rules. There are judges, but isn't it better when we make it easier for the judges? To have less arguments? Less discrepancies? Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 14, 2005, at 5:17 PM, Peter Douthwright wrote: > Having to place the completed puzzle on one timing device in my > opinion > would make this step faster and closer to the truer time of the > solve. > > I thought this was the whole idea behind speedcubing. the be the > fastest. > > This is why you have judges at the competitions to ensure this does > not happen. > > Anyone correcting their errors after the time is stopped or > manipulating their puzzle > before starting the timer should be DQ.

Hmm... offensive clothing? That's pretty broad. I mean, David Wesley's "Jesus is Lord" shirt could be considered offensive by many people. In my opinion, that was a little bad taste. He knew there would publicity at that competition. A cube competition is no place to promote your own personal beliefs. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 14, 2005, at 6:13 PM, Bob Burton wrote: > Actually, if you read the rules, there is an article about offensive > clothing. :) > > ~ Bob > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Tregay" > <Grant@T...> wrote: >> --- thewetdog wrote: >>> How does sponsorship work in the cubing world? ... How do you give >>> to the company to make it worth their money? Do you have to wear >>> hats or shirts with the company name or logo displayed? Do you have >>> to mention the company in interviews? >> >> For me, it's the first option - a shirt and/or hat. Nothing was said >> about interviews. Regardless, while I hope it can be worth their >> expense, you also have to keep in mind that an event like this is >> relatively cheap, from a company's perspective. >> >>> ... do we foresee there ever being political issues that arise ... >>> (i.e. a cigarette company sponsoring someone, as one example)? >> >> I don't think there are any regulations at this point, keeping people >> from wearing shirts (or other articles of clothing) that >> display "offensive" or "controversial" content. A rule to that >> effect could avoid the potential for a problem like this, but could >> also give rise to other issues that may be more difficult to >> resolve. That said, I don't really anticipate any problems. >> >> - Grant > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

I used to advocate the new timer, for various reasons. However, I think now that, for competition purposes, the Stackmats are better. They aren't optimal, but they're the best current method. They prevent cheating, are relatively inexpensive, they've been well tested, and they work. Switching to a new timing method not only invalidates old records, but provides us with difficulties in judging and procedure. Until a new method is clearly and greatly advantageous, changing over would only be counterproductive. The designer of the new timer, if he had really wanted to make a successful product, and advance the sport, would have delved into video analysis. As Chris Hardwick mentioned before, high speed video analysis would be the most accurate and most fair timing method, but it's too expensive and cumbersome now. Until it becomes more readily available, the stackmat timers are the most accurate, the most fair, and the cheapest timing product out there. -Mike Bennett --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > The true time of the solve is when the competitor stops the timer. > > Sure, be the fastest within the confines of the rules. > > There are judges, but isn't it better when we make it easier for the > judges? To have less arguments? Less discrepancies? > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology

Yeah, broad is bad. If it were phrased "offensive clothing," just how far down would you have to drill? A "Girls Rule" shirt might offend some guys. (More so if a guy is wearing it) A shirt with a pic of a hamburger might offend vegetarians. An Microsoft shirt would offend everyone. j/k The rules specifically state "vulgar language" or "inappropriate pictures" - sure it's still subject to interpretation, but it's still a reasonable common sense rule. My guess is there is some legal liability involved. You don't want something that would be rated R in a movie, when there are 9-year-olds watching. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Hmm... offensive clothing? That's pretty broad. I mean, David > Wesley's "Jesus is Lord" shirt could be considered offensive by many > people. In my opinion, that was a little bad taste. He knew there > would publicity at that competition. A cube competition is no place to > promote your own personal beliefs. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 14, 2005, at 6:13 PM, Bob Burton wrote: > > > Actually, if you read the rules, there is an article about offensive > > clothing. :) > > > > ~ Bob > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Tregay" > > <Grant@T...> wrote: > >> --- thewetdog wrote: > >>> How does sponsorship work in the cubing world? ... How do you give > >>> to the company to make it worth their money? Do you have to wear > >>> hats or shirts with the company name or logo displayed? Do you have > >>> to mention the company in interviews? > >> > >> For me, it's the first option - a shirt and/or hat. Nothing was said > >> about interviews. Regardless, while I hope it can be worth their > >> expense, you also have to keep in mind that an event like this is > >> relatively cheap, from a company's perspective. > >> > >>> ... do we foresee there ever being political issues that arise ... > >>> (i.e. a cigarette company sponsoring someone, as one example)? > >> > >> I don't think there are any regulations at this point, keeping people > >> from wearing shirts (or other articles of clothing) that > >> display "offensive" or "controversial" content. A rule to that > >> effect could avoid the potential for a problem like this, but could > >> also give rise to other issues that may be more difficult to > >> resolve. That said, I don't really anticipate any problems. > >> > >> - Grant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Yes, thank you. Until someone can really say that a new method is absolutely amazing and far better than what we're using now, there's no reason to switch. I, unfortunately, disagree with your opinion that high speed video analysis would be the most accurate and most fair timing method. I'll try to restrain myself because I already gave Quinn an earful for this same assumption. So, if you're video taping someone, when are you going to start the time? This question isn't so hard is it? You're going to say you start the time when the cube first moves. Is it when the cube first moves or when the cuber touches the cube? What if he intended to make a move, touched the cube, but his hand slipped and he didn't make a move? If you drop the shuttlecock in badminton and you take a swing and you miss, hey, you lose the serve. (It's not the case in table tennis. But this is irrelevant.) All right, so how are you going to define when the timer is stopped. When the cube is solved of course! Okay, I'm going to give you unlimited resources here. You have infinite time, everything, precise cameras, judges... everything. Given unlimited resources, write me a set of regulations, using video analysis, that defines precisely when the timer should be stopped. Is it when the final face is aligned? How aligned does it have to be? Are you going to stop the timer precisely when the edge of the corner passes the column as defined for the 2 second penalty rule? What if someone gets lucky? Are you going to give them the benefit of having a shorter time, and not having to react to the fact that the cube is actually solved? Guy gets lucky, and solves the cube in 14 seconds. Instead, after the OLL since he didn't know the cube would be solved, using a normal timer, he would have been stunned for just a fraction of time, and then reacted to hitting the pads. That's maybe .3 seconds right there. That's .3 seconds which I think is valid because, since he was lucky, he wasn't prepared. We shouldn't reward people for not knowing their cube is solved. If you want to claim that high speed video analysis is the most accurate and fair method of timing, then I challenge you to write a set of regulations that define exactly how you would implement the said timing. And, I'm giving you the ability to use unlimited resources. Now, who could be nicer than me? Yijia says, "my mom." Sorry, inside Caltech Ay 1 joke. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 14, 2005, at 7:02 PM, Mike Bennett wrote: > I used to advocate the new timer, for various reasons. However, I > think now that, for competition purposes, the Stackmats are better. > They aren't optimal, but they're the best current method. They prevent > cheating, are relatively inexpensive, they've been well tested, and > they work. Switching to a new timing method not only invalidates old > records, but provides us with difficulties in judging and procedure. > Until a new method is clearly and greatly advantageous, changing over > would only be counterproductive. > > The designer of the new timer, if he had really wanted to make a > successful product, and advance the sport, would have delved into > video analysis. > > As Chris Hardwick mentioned before, high speed video analysis would be > the most accurate and most fair timing method, but it's too expensive > and cumbersome now. > > Until it becomes more readily available, the stackmat timers are the > most accurate, the most fair, and the cheapest timing product out > there. > > -Mike Bennett

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Tregay" <Grant@T...> wrote: > I don't think there are any regulations at this point, keeping people > from wearing shirts (or other articles of clothing) that > display "offensive" or "controversial" content. A rule to that > effect could avoid the potential for a problem like this, but could > also give rise to other issues that may be more difficult to > resolve. That said, I don't really anticipate any problems. > > - Grant Thanks for sharing your sponsorship agreement, Grant. I am aware, as Bob pointed out, that there is an actual rule about offensive content on clothing. What I am asking about is not offensive in its primary message. With the talk today about trying to encourage children to participate and become active in the cubing world, I would think someone showing up decked out in a Camel or Marlboro outfit because the company, for publicity, is sponsoring him or her would be extremely bad taste. But I now understand that there are no real rules on the subject. Do we wait until this situation arises to make a rule, or do we just say that it is all fair game? I agree with Tyson, that the definition of "offensive" is rather subjective. I think outside of blatant vulgarity there is little that someone could wear that would result in the organizers raising issue. It is too bad that some people don't have the common courtesy or commonsense to pick their personal messages accordingly.

I wasn't familiar with the rule, so I looked it up: "Clothes can not display vulgar language or have inappropriate pictures." So "Jesus Is Lord" was acceptable within the rules, and it may have been precisely because of the potential publicity that he chose to wear that shirt that day--isn't that what anyone who has a message they want to advertise would do? Same reason sponsors put their logos on clothing. I guess I don't see a signfiicant distinction between one's right of commercial promotion vs. religious promotion--it's America, free speech reigns, and I don't have to agree with everything others try to promote, I can just tune it out without taking offense. People should be able to promote whatever they want to, be it at a cube competion or anywhere else (though a restriction on vulgarity or inappropriate pictures seems reasonable given that children will be present). just exercising my First Amendment rights... --Kirk --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "kwickykanny" <kwickykanny@e...> wrote: > Yeah, broad is bad. If it were phrased "offensive clothing," just > how far down would you have to drill? A "Girls Rule" shirt might > offend some guys. (More so if a guy is wearing it) A shirt with a > pic of a hamburger might offend vegetarians. An Microsoft shirt > would offend everyone. j/k > > The rules specifically state "vulgar language" or "inappropriate > pictures" - sure it's still subject to interpretation, but it's still > a reasonable common sense rule. My guess is there is some legal > liability involved. You don't want something that would be rated R > in a movie, when there are 9-year-olds watching. > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > wrote: > > Hmm... offensive clothing? That's pretty broad. I mean, David > > Wesley's "Jesus is Lord" shirt could be considered offensive by > many > > people. In my opinion, that was a little bad taste. He knew there > > would publicity at that competition. A cube competition is no > place to > > promote your own personal beliefs. > > > > Tyson Mao > > MSC #631 > > California Institute of Technology > > > > On Sep 14, 2005, at 6:13 PM, Bob Burton wrote: > > > > > Actually, if you read the rules, there is an article about > offensive > > > clothing. :) > > > > > > ~ Bob > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Tregay" > > > <Grant@T...> wrote: > > >> --- thewetdog wrote: > > >>> How does sponsorship work in the cubing world? ... How do you > give > > >>> to the company to make it worth their money? Do you have to wear > > >>> hats or shirts with the company name or logo displayed? Do you > have > > >>> to mention the company in interviews? > > >> > > >> For me, it's the first option - a shirt and/or hat. Nothing was > said > > >> about interviews. Regardless, while I hope it can be worth their > > >> expense, you also have to keep in mind that an event like this is > > >> relatively cheap, from a company's perspective. > > >> > > >>> ... do we foresee there ever being political issues that > arise ... > > >>> (i.e. a cigarette company sponsoring someone, as one example)? > > >> > > >> I don't think there are any regulations at this point, keeping > people > > >> from wearing shirts (or other articles of clothing) that > > >> display "offensive" or "controversial" content. A rule to that > > >> effect could avoid the potential for a problem like this, but > could > > >> also give rise to other issues that may be more difficult to > > >> resolve. That said, I don't really anticipate any problems. > > >> > > >> - Grant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Not to be mean, but competitions are world wide, and the WC2003 was in Canada. I'm not trying to suggest that all the other countries we've had competitions in limit free speech in public forums. I'm just saying we should take a broader view about this than just what is ok in America. Chris --it's America, free > speech reigns, and I don't have to agree with everything others try > to promote, I can just tune it out without taking offense.

Hah. I was just going to mention that the competition was held in Toronto. :) ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Not to be mean, but competitions are world wide, and the WC2003 was in > Canada. > > I'm not trying to suggest that all the other countries we've had > competitions in limit free speech in public forums. I'm just saying > we should take a broader view about this than just what is ok in America. > > Chris > > --it's America, free > > speech reigns, and I don't have to agree with everything others try > > to promote, I can just tune it out without taking offense.

Touche. I pondered this for quite a while, and realized, you're right. There isn't a fair way to call the end of a solve. The beginning could just be when the cube starts turning, but that's irrelevant when the end is undefinable. The closest I came was to say when they stopped physically turning the cube, but that doesn't account for lucky cases. In any other case, it would work fine. I thought of proposing a penalty for lucky cases, but that didn't make sense, because how do you penalize for being lucky? Where to start? In the end, Tyson, I think you've put waaay too much thought into this. I concede defeat. -Mike Bennett

good point. --Kirk --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> wrote: > Hah. I was just going to mention that the competition was held in > Toronto. :) > > ~ Bob > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> > wrote: > > Not to be mean, but competitions are world wide, and the WC2003 was in > > Canada. > > > > I'm not trying to suggest that all the other countries we've had > > competitions in limit free speech in public forums. I'm just saying > > we should take a broader view about this than just what is ok in > America. > > > > Chris > > > > --it's America, free > > > speech reigns, and I don't have to agree with everything others try > > > to promote, I can just tune it out without taking offense.

Has anybody thought of using the 2x2x3 block used in the Petrus method as a beginning to Fridrich? The thought crossed my mind and I figured it my help if the 2x2x3 could be done quickly because it would knock off two f2l pairs. Just a thought :]

Here are some I've found out watching people compete: Since the time is measured from when you lift and put down your hands (simultainously), it's not very intuitive for people not used to a StackMat. I've seen people get +0.5 seconds or more just beacuse they don't have a perfect "StackMat"-technique. I've also seen cubes dropped from height onto the mat, just to fall into pieces, because the competitor want's to minimize that extra time. And even though I do know you don't want to hear it, I've seen people hit the reset button. Sure you might say that it's the competitors fault and he/she only has him/herself to blame. Well, we tell them about the reset-issue before hand, but that makes people who have never seen a StackMat before get even worse times, because it makes them nervous about stopping the timer correctly. I've also witnessed Geir do his Speedblindfolded solve and he has to stop the timer with his blinfold still on. On his first attempt he actually hit the reset button when doing this and it was a great relief to see that he hadn't finished. I would have fet really awkward if a successful attempt by him had beed DQ because what I believe to be a flaw on the timer. This all also makes the fastest cubers not only be fast at the cube, but they also need that special StackMat training. But any one can buy a StackMat and prattice at home can't they? Well... no. First of, it's a bit expensive, and to have it shipped to places like Sweden is a real pain. I also don't think it's fair to "force" people who want god times to buy a timer. Sure, we give the competitors some time to familiarize themselves with the pad on competition, but it's not enough in my opinion. I'm not saying the new timer is better, just that we should give it a try or two. I know it will be available to try out on the WC 2005 (no, it's not going to be used in competition), so why don't everyone who go there just try it out? Then we will know for sure if it's crap or not. Will U layer turns really be a issue after timing has stopped? Only by testing it will we know for sure. /Gustav Tyson Mao skrev: >All right, > >For the people said the StackMat timer has flaws, I encourage you to >bring them up. Now, keep in mind, I'm not after flaws like, "It >doesn't allow us to calculate averages." because things like that don't >concern us in a competition. What you prefer in your own home is not >my business. If you'd like to purchase the new timer for your own home >use, go ahead. What I'm looking for are competition flaws with the >StackMat timer. What is a flaw with the StackMat that allows loopholes >in fair play? > >And please don't try to give me the "starting and stopping the timer >isn't a part of solving the cube" because it is and I've explained that >a countless number of times. And don't give me arguments about hitting >the reset buttons either because that's your own fault. And if you try >to say it's not your fault, we're all going to think in some manner of >you because you are basically saying you lack the skill and finesse to >'not' hit the reset button. Seriously, the guy solves a Rubik's Cube >in like, 20 seconds and he can't avoid hitting a button? > >What competition flaws does the StackMat have? We all have our >preferences, but we have to put those aside when trying to come up with >a standard. > >Tyson Mao >MSC #631 >California Institute of Technology > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1.1217 (20050914) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.nod32.com > > > > >

Bob Burton skrev: >--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gustav Fredell ><gufr5747@s...> wrote: > > > >>I really think there is a lot of hostility towards a device no one has >>yet tried out. I actually think the timing (photocell) seems better >> >> >than > > >>that of the StackMat, which I belive has some major flaws after seeing >>it in competition. Sure, it (the new timer) might not be perfect but is >>the StackMat really so great? Why not give it a try and see if we like >>it? Would it really be much of a problem if we changed to using this >>timer later on? The StackMat displays can still be used, old records >>could still be valid (and if not... it's not much of a problem since >>everyone is breaking records all the time)... >> >> > >This leads to the possibility of a record being set by current >standards still being faster than if you were to use the new timer and >get a faster time with the new timer that would have been slower by >old standards. Basically, you throw 2 years of competitions >statistics out the window. > > I don't think we need to throw them out the window just beacuase the timing is a little different. But even if we do, is it really so bad? I think all current records will be beaten eventually. Many sports "reset" their records now and then because the rules or devices used have changed. I wonder how many times the Javelin Throw record has been reset. >>I know you must feel offended by the fact that it is now "official". >> >> >The > > >>fact that it is "official" is because it's now part of the Rubiks brand >>(like the Rubiks Cube is official, but knock-offs are not). I don't >>really think thats the inventors fault and to give him credit he asked >>for input on this list at least a couple of times. I know I at least >>took the time to write him a couple of mails with suggestions. >> >> > >It IS the inventor's fault because he chose to get it approved by >SevenTowns. No? > > Well, we have to assume he want's to have least some money for all his labour and when it comes to a retailer I don't really see any good options besides Rubiks.com. > > >>I also like tha fact that I don't have to sit in front of my >> >> >computer to > > >>use it. My computer is in an awkward place for cubing and taking some >>times sitting on the sofa or whereever I feel like would be much better >>for me. Of course I could do that with a StackMat too, but the StackMat >>won't count down or take averages. >> >> > >Hrmm...how about printing 50 scrambles and taking them with you (a >.00x ounce sheet of paper!) and then entering them into a spreadsheet? > >Side note: (For example) For timing the magic, you would a different >timer, so you would have to use stackmats anyway! It doesn't look >like it fits. :-P > >~ Bob > > > > Well... call me lazy that feels very labour intensive. It takes quite some time writing down say 50 solves and then entering them into a spreadsheet. And I won't even know my average until I do it. It seems convenient to have it built in, into the timer for home practicing. I agree about that it probably would be a problem timing the magic. You should give it a try or two on the new timer, but there I put my money on the StackMat beforehand. This is a problem for me to as you might recognize me as the Swedish Champion in Rubiks Magic, with an awesome record average of 3.42 :D > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1.1217 (20050914) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.nod32.com > > > > >

http://art.blogging.la/archives/2005/09/mona_lisas_rubi.phtml

Hi Jim, Paul Nixon and I discussed this during our UK weekend this summer. As some of my L2L strategies only require two F2L pairs along with a completed top layer this is one way of starting which could easily be used by Fridrich solvers too. I have my own way of getting to a similar position which is just as fast but I believe Paul was going to try using the Petrus approach before going into an L2L finish. Duncan ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim_cuber" <jim_cuber@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 6:43 AM Subject: [Speed cubing group] quick question > Has anybody thought of using the 2x2x3 block used in the Petrus method > as a beginning to Fridrich? The thought crossed my mind and I figured > it my help if the 2x2x3 could be done quickly because it would knock > off two f2l pairs. Just a thought :] > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

I had another idea wich was to use Gilles Roux's 2 1x2x3 clock then complete the first 2 layers as a beginning of the Fridrich method. But I came back to the normal Fridrich Method. We shouldn't stick to Fridrich, there are many other ways to solve a cube. Maybe I'll try another method after the WC. :-)

Damn, I'm too slow. Didn't see that it was on speedcubing.com already! --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Leyan Lo" <leyanlo@g...> wrote: > http://art.blogging.la/archives/2005/09/mona_lisas_rubi.phtml

I'm developing a new one for people who have websites with php and mysql. I intend to release the first version shortly. Check out the stats page: http://www.garbelini.net/cubetimer/stats.php or the timer itself (firefox only for now, I'm making it Internet Explorer friendly) http://www.garbelini.net/cubetimer/ Marco On 9/14/05, randmthght <wombat@...> wrote: > > I know at one point two different groups were making a new timer. > > Has anyone heard anything of late. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nice timer... However, on the stats page, what's "region A" and "region B" (appears when refreshed)? Also, the first second of the countdown is (on my computer) a bit fast, after that it's fine. Nice work though. Fran�ois Marco Garbelini a �crit : > I'm developing a new one for people who have websites with php and > mysql. I > intend to release the first version shortly. > > Check out the stats page: > http://www.garbelini.net/cubetimer/stats.php > or the timer itself (firefox only for now, I'm making it Internet > Explorer > friendly) > http://www.garbelini.net/cubetimer/ > > Marco > > > On 9/14/05, randmthght <wombat@...> wrote: > > > > I know at one point two different groups were making a new timer. > > > > Has anyone heard anything of late. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube>" on the web. > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ___________________________________________________________________________ Appel audio GRATUIT partout dans le monde avec le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger T�l�chargez cette version sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com

Looks really nice. A few questions though. Is it supposed to be single user only or will it support multiple users, like the rubiks.dk timer? When clicking the "window" I get an error message "This Account Has Been Suspended". Is that supposed to be like so? Will this be an "open source" project? :) /Gustav --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Marco Garbelini <garbelini@g...> wrote: > I'm developing a new one for people who have websites with php and mysql. I > intend to release the first version shortly. > > Check out the stats page: > http://www.garbelini.net/cubetimer/stats.php > or the timer itself (firefox only for now, I'm making it Internet Explorer > friendly) > http://www.garbelini.net/cubetimer/ > > Marco > > > On 9/14/05, randmthght <wombat@r...> wrote: > > > > I know at one point two different groups were making a new timer. > > > > Has anyone heard anything of late. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey All, He said he wasn't finished...people should learn not to post anything but a finished product on here...lol...People will tear you apart... Craig --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gustav Fredell" <gufr5747@s...> wrote: > Looks really nice. A few questions though. > > Is it supposed to be single user only or will it support multiple > users, like the rubiks.dk timer? > > When clicking the "window" I get an error message "This Account Has > Been Suspended". Is that supposed to be like so? > > Will this be an "open source" project? :) > > /Gustav > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Marco Garbelini > <garbelini@g...> wrote: > > I'm developing a new one for people who have websites with php and > mysql. I > > intend to release the first version shortly. > > > > Check out the stats page: > > http://www.garbelini.net/cubetimer/stats.php > > or the timer itself (firefox only for now, I'm making it Internet > Explorer > > friendly) > > http://www.garbelini.net/cubetimer/ > > > > Marco > > > > > > On 9/14/05, randmthght <wombat@r...> wrote: > > > > > > I know at one point two different groups were making a new timer. > > > > > > Has anyone heard anything of late. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

:) Thats why I softened the blow with the first sentence ;) No really, I knwo it's not finished. I just thought he wanted to know about issues just in case he missed them himself. Looking forward to the first release. /Gustav --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" <logitewty@h...> wrote: > Hey All, > > He said he wasn't finished...people should learn not to post > anything but a finished product on here...lol...People will tear you > apart... > > Craig > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gustav Fredell" > <gufr5747@s...> wrote: > > Looks really nice. A few questions though. > > > > Is it supposed to be single user only or will it support multiple > > users, like the rubiks.dk timer? > > > > When clicking the "window" I get an error message "This Account > Has > > Been Suspended". Is that supposed to be like so? > > > > Will this be an "open source" project? :) > > > > /Gustav > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Marco Garbelini > > <garbelini@g...> wrote: > > > I'm developing a new one for people who have websites with php > and > > mysql. I > > > intend to release the first version shortly. > > > > > > Check out the stats page: > > > http://www.garbelini.net/cubetimer/stats.php > > > or the timer itself (firefox only for now, I'm making it > Internet > > Explorer > > > friendly) > > > http://www.garbelini.net/cubetimer/ > > > > > > Marco > > > > > > > > > On 9/14/05, randmthght <wombat@r...> wrote: > > > > > > > > I know at one point two different groups were making a new > timer. > > > > > > > > Has anyone heard anything of late. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > Nice timer... > However, on the stats page, what's "region A" and "region B" (appears > when refreshed)? That's a bug. The chart component does that when it fails to get new data. Still thinking about how to avoid it. Also, the first second of the countdown is (on my computer) a bit fast, > after that it's fine. Nice work though. I get that too. Still trying to figure out what is causing that. This one is giving me a hard time. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think that the stackmat is better for competitions than the new timer, because it doesn't allow cheating. As cheating I mean the availability to turn faces before lift the cube, and after putting it down, from the timer. I think that high speed video analysis isn't a very good idea. In track&field events you could use that approach to messure exactly how high the highjumper jums and what time the sprinter gets. I don't think I want that kind of messurement, it sems so unnatural. /Gunnar --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > I used to advocate the new timer, for various reasons. However, I > think now that, for competition purposes, the Stackmats are better. > They aren't optimal, but they're the best current method. They prevent > cheating, are relatively inexpensive, they've been well tested, and > they work. Switching to a new timing method not only invalidates old > records, but provides us with difficulties in judging and procedure. > Until a new method is clearly and greatly advantageous, changing over > would only be counterproductive. > > The designer of the new timer, if he had really wanted to make a > successful product, and advance the sport, would have delved into > video analysis. > > As Chris Hardwick mentioned before, high speed video analysis would be > the most accurate and most fair timing method, but it's too expensive > and cumbersome now. > > Until it becomes more readily available, the stackmat timers are the > most accurate, the most fair, and the cheapest timing product out there. > > -Mike Bennett > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > wrote: > > The true time of the solve is when the competitor stops the timer. > > > > Sure, be the fastest within the confines of the rules. > > > > There are judges, but isn't it better when we make it easier for the > > judges? To have less arguments? Less discrepancies? > > > > Tyson Mao > > MSC #631 > > California Institute of Technology

I used Petrus' method before. Now that I use Fridrich I benefit from my knowledge in block-building. In 20-30% of the solves I start with a 2*2*2-block and then finish the xcross, instead of building the regular cross. With a good sense for block-building one can earn a lot a time in the first phase of solving. /Gunnar --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "jim_cuber" <jim_cuber@y...> wrote: > Has anybody thought of using the 2x2x3 block used in the Petrus method > as a beginning to Fridrich? The thought crossed my mind and I figured > it my help if the 2x2x3 could be done quickly because it would knock > off two f2l pairs. Just a thought :]

> Looks really nice. A few questions though. > > Is it supposed to be single user only or will it support multiple > users, like the rubiks.dk <http://rubiks.dk> timer? This is single user and you should have it installed in your own server. I don't want the responsibility of keeping other peoples times in my server. It's fairly easy to make it multi user, I'll do that in a future version. When clicking the "window" I get an error message "This Account Has > Been Suspended". Is that supposed to be like so? That's new to me. Can you send me your system data like browser version and OS? Will this be an "open source" project? :) Yes. I'll just check the licence for the components I use and see it's possible to GPL it. /Gustav > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > Hey All, > > He said he wasn't finished...people should learn not to post > anything but a finished product on here...lol...People will tear you > apart... In fact It's almost done. I think it's already a good time to start getting some feedback. Craig > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

By the way. You will not be able to accept any times. This is password protected. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gustav Fredell <gufr5747@s...> wrote: > > I've seen people get +0.5 seconds or more just beacuse they > don't have a perfect "StackMat"-technique. Fault of the cuber, not the timer. > I've also seen cubes dropped > from height onto the mat, just to fall into pieces, because the > competitor want's to minimize that extra time. Fault of the cuber, not the timer. > And even though I do know > you don't want to hear it, I've seen people hit the reset button. Fault of the cuber, not the timer. - People do get the chance to get used to stackmats at competitions before the real competition. - How can you seriously say someone can be a top cuber but not learn hwo to use the stackmat? - Chris has made nice demonstration videos people can watch beforehand. - People *can* practice *beforehand at home* with PC simulators that behave similarly. - If you're really serious about cubing, you can spend some money on a stackmat, just like people in other sports spend some money on their equipment. - The reset-button can easily be protected if necessary like in Geir's solve. - Is this really far away from Sweden? http://www. speedstacksscandinavia.com/dansk/ > Will U layer turns really be a issue after timing has stopped? Only by > testing it will we know for sure. It's natural to start solving as soon as possible and to stop the timer as soon as possible. That is, I might want to make a U-turn right at the start or right at the end, and I wouldn't even trust *myself* that I don't accidentally do it before starting or after stopping that new timer. With the stackmat I can be sure I didn't cheat. Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@g...> wrote: > > Though this brings up a question. What if a timer like this ends up in > a competition and does this during a solve?? As far as I remember, you'll get a replacement attempt. Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Douthwright" <pdouthwright0513@r...> wrote: > > the duty of a timing device is to record the time NOT be a part of the solve. The faster you can stop a > timer the more accurate the time actually is. The duty of a timer in competition is to compare the abilities of competitors. There's just no way to "exactly" measure the solve time or even just define how to measure it, see Tyson's comments about video analysis. > Having to hit one pad in my opinion is faster the having to hit two. I doubt I'd smash my puzzles onto that new timer even nearly as fast as I smash my hands onto the stackmat. I'd fear to damage both the puzzle and that new timer. Btw, I don't know about you, but I have two hands. And I can move them at simultaneously. Amazing, huh? But yes, if possible I will also try out that new timer at WC2005, though I can already tell you I'll do it just for fun because I don't agree with the principle it's based on. Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gustav Fredell <gufr5747@s...> wrote: > Well... call me lazy that feels very labour intensive. It takes quite > some time writing down say 50 solves and then entering them into a > spreadsheet. And I won't even know my average until I do it. It seems > convenient to have it built in, into the timer for home practicing. Yes, it is convenient, but in my opinion, not worth the extra $50. For $50, I would rather insert the times onto my PC manually. Also, did you see there is a $50 accessory package? If you want to load times from your timer to a speadsheet on your PC, it is an ADDITIONAL $50. $100 to have my times saved is not worth it. > I agree about that it probably would be a problem timing the magic. You > should give it a try or two on the new timer, but there I put my money > on the StackMat beforehand. This is a problem for me to as you might > recognize me as the Swedish Champion in Rubiks Magic, with an awesome > record average of 3.42 :D The problem with "giving it a try" is that I finish my solve on the table. The puzzle would not be solved when I put it on the timer because I would be mid-solution. For the master magic, for example, almost the entire solution is on the mat. If it was required to do the entire puzzle in the air, times would be ridiculously slow. ~ Bob

These are some very good points. ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gustav Fredell > <gufr5747@s...> wrote: > > > > I've seen people get +0.5 seconds or more just beacuse they > > don't have a perfect "StackMat"-technique. > > Fault of the cuber, not the timer. > > > I've also seen cubes dropped > > from height onto the mat, just to fall into pieces, because the > > competitor want's to minimize that extra time. > > Fault of the cuber, not the timer. > > > And even though I do know > > you don't want to hear it, I've seen people hit the reset button. > > Fault of the cuber, not the timer. > > > - People do get the chance to get used to stackmats at competitions > before the real competition. > > - How can you seriously say someone can be a top cuber but not learn > hwo to use the stackmat? > > - Chris has made nice demonstration videos people can watch > beforehand. > > - People *can* practice *beforehand at home* with PC simulators that > behave similarly. > > - If you're really serious about cubing, you can spend some money on a > stackmat, just like people in other sports spend some money on their > equipment. > > - The reset-button can easily be protected if necessary like in Geir's > solve. > > - Is this really far away from Sweden? http://www. > speedstacksscandinavia.com/dansk/ > > > > Will U layer turns really be a issue after timing has stopped? Only > by > > testing it will we know for sure. > > It's natural to start solving as soon as possible and to stop the > timer as soon as possible. That is, I might want to make a U-turn > right at the start or right at the end, and I wouldn't even trust > *myself* that I don't accidentally do it before starting or after > stopping that new timer. With the stackmat I can be sure I didn't > cheat. > > Stefan

Actually, I don't think this would be so. If it was an isolated incident, unless the judge clearly noticed that the time stopped running during the solve, I think the competitor could be accused to somehow resetting the timer or something. It seems like such an unlikely event that the competitor *MUST* have done something wrong. Has it happened before? ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay > <cubekid@g...> wrote: > > > > Though this brings up a question. What if a timer like this ends up > in > > a competition and does this during a solve?? > > As far as I remember, you'll get a replacement attempt. > > Stefan

> > This is not only directed and Jon, but anyone that is being > sponsored for the WC2005. > > How does sponsorship work in the cubing world? It is usually based > on a give and take relationship. You are taking the money to put > towards expenses. How do you give to the company to make it worth > their money? Do you have to wear hats or shirts with the company > name or logo displayed? Do you have to mention the company in > interviews? > They are supplying me with hat's and shirts and asked that I wear them. I was not asked to mention the company during interviews or anything else, but of course I would try to slip in a plug for them if I could ;) > And this is directed at anyone. I know this is not an issue now, but > do we foresee there ever being political issues that arise from this > type of relationship in the future (i.e. a cigarette company > sponsoring someone, as one example)? > As for this; I don't know. The companies aren't shelling out a ton of cash for sponsoring us cubers so it's hard to tell what will happen in the future. Jon

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> wrote: > > Actually, I don't think this would be so. If it was an isolated > incident, unless the judge clearly noticed that the time stopped > running during the solve, I think the competitor could be accused to > somehow resetting the timer or something. It seems like such an > unlikely event that the competitor *MUST* have done something wrong. > Has it happened before? It's not about stopping the timer but about the timer turning off. Also, here's what Tyson said: http://games.groups.yahoo. com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/message/16990 (see third paragraph) Cheers! Stefan P.S. Thanks to Tyson, I found that thread searching for "ping pong" ; -)

Hi! Thinking of it i see one advantage with the new timer over the old stackmat. It's got to do with fundamental design. On the new timer it's actually the puzzle that starts and stops the running time. On the stackmat u start and stop timer using the 2 palms of ur hands. Now suppose a handicapped person with only 1 hand wants to participate in one-handed solving (or something else). How will that person be able to operate the stackmat? It will be fully possible for the person to "operate" the new timer. Using a simple stopwatch as a stackmat replacement in this case seems a bit unfair, but would maybe be the best solution for now, since the stackmat is official competition timer. Just some thoughts. I don't think we have the perfect timing device yet. Maybe it simply doesn't exist or cannot exist. Maybe we will have compromises no matter what ... :-o Cheers! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gustav Fredell > <gufr5747@s...> wrote: > > > > I've seen people get +0.5 seconds or more just beacuse they > > don't have a perfect "StackMat"-technique. > > Fault of the cuber, not the timer. > > > I've also seen cubes dropped > > from height onto the mat, just to fall into pieces, because the > > competitor want's to minimize that extra time. > > Fault of the cuber, not the timer. > > > And even though I do know > > you don't want to hear it, I've seen people hit the reset button. > > Fault of the cuber, not the timer. > > > - People do get the chance to get used to stackmats at competitions > before the real competition. > > - How can you seriously say someone can be a top cuber but not learn > hwo to use the stackmat? > > - Chris has made nice demonstration videos people can watch > beforehand. > > - People *can* practice *beforehand at home* with PC simulators that > behave similarly. > > - If you're really serious about cubing, you can spend some money on a > stackmat, just like people in other sports spend some money on their > equipment. > > - The reset-button can easily be protected if necessary like in Geir's > solve. > > - Is this really far away from Sweden? http://www. > speedstacksscandinavia.com/dansk/ > > > > Will U layer turns really be a issue after timing has stopped? Only > by > > testing it will we know for sure. > > It's natural to start solving as soon as possible and to stop the > timer as soon as possible. That is, I might want to make a U-turn > right at the start or right at the end, and I wouldn't even trust > *myself* that I don't accidentally do it before starting or after > stopping that new timer. With the stackmat I can be sure I didn't > cheat. > > Stefan

Can't you put a weight on one sensor and have the competitor use his one hand to start and stop the timer? Leyan Per Kristen Fredlund wrote: > Hi! > > Thinking of it i see one advantage with the new timer over the old > stackmat. It's got to do with fundamental design. On the new timer > it's actually the puzzle that starts and stops the running time. On > the stackmat u start and stop timer using the 2 palms of ur hands. > Now suppose a handicapped person with only 1 hand wants to > participate in one-handed solving (or something else). How will that > person be able to operate the stackmat? It will be fully possible > for the person to "operate" the new timer. Using a simple stopwatch > as a stackmat replacement in this case seems a bit unfair, but would > maybe be the best solution for now, since the stackmat is official > competition timer. > > Just some thoughts. I don't think we have the perfect timing device > yet. Maybe it simply doesn't exist or cannot exist. Maybe we will > have compromises no matter what ... :-o > > Cheers! > > -Per > > >>--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > > <pochmann@g...> wrote: > >>--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gustav Fredell >><gufr5747@s...> wrote: >> >>>I've seen people get +0.5 seconds or more just beacuse they >>>don't have a perfect "StackMat"-technique. >> >>Fault of the cuber, not the timer. >> >> >>>I've also seen cubes dropped >>>from height onto the mat, just to fall into pieces, because the >>>competitor want's to minimize that extra time. >> >>Fault of the cuber, not the timer. >> >> >>>And even though I do know >>>you don't want to hear it, I've seen people hit the reset button. >> >>Fault of the cuber, not the timer. >> >> >>- People do get the chance to get used to stackmats at > > competitions > >>before the real competition. >> >>- How can you seriously say someone can be a top cuber but not > > learn > >>hwo to use the stackmat? >> >>- Chris has made nice demonstration videos people can watch >>beforehand. >> >>- People *can* practice *beforehand at home* with PC simulators > > that > >>behave similarly. >> >>- If you're really serious about cubing, you can spend some money > > on a > >>stackmat, just like people in other sports spend some money on > > their > >>equipment. >> >>- The reset-button can easily be protected if necessary like in > > Geir's > >>solve. >> >>- Is this really far away from Sweden? http://www. >>speedstacksscandinavia.com/dansk/ >> >> >> >>>Will U layer turns really be a issue after timing has stopped? > > Only > >>by >> >>>testing it will we know for sure. >> >>It's natural to start solving as soon as possible and to stop the >>timer as soon as possible. That is, I might want to make a U-turn >>right at the start or right at the end, and I wouldn't even trust >>*myself* that I don't accidentally do it before starting or after >>stopping that new timer. With the stackmat I can be sure I didn't >>cheat. >> >>Stefan > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

I think if a one-handed person wanted to compete, it would be fair to let the judge put one hand on one of the pads and keep it there during the solve. :) ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > Hi! > > Thinking of it i see one advantage with the new timer over the old > stackmat. It's got to do with fundamental design. On the new timer > it's actually the puzzle that starts and stops the running time. On > the stackmat u start and stop timer using the 2 palms of ur hands. > Now suppose a handicapped person with only 1 hand wants to > participate in one-handed solving (or something else). How will that > person be able to operate the stackmat? It will be fully possible > for the person to "operate" the new timer. Using a simple stopwatch > as a stackmat replacement in this case seems a bit unfair, but would > maybe be the best solution for now, since the stackmat is official > competition timer. > > Just some thoughts. I don't think we have the perfect timing device > yet. Maybe it simply doesn't exist or cannot exist. Maybe we will > have compromises no matter what ... :-o > > Cheers! > > -Per > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gustav Fredell > > <gufr5747@s...> wrote: > > > > > > I've seen people get +0.5 seconds or more just beacuse they > > > don't have a perfect "StackMat"-technique. > > > > Fault of the cuber, not the timer. > > > > > I've also seen cubes dropped > > > from height onto the mat, just to fall into pieces, because the > > > competitor want's to minimize that extra time. > > > > Fault of the cuber, not the timer. > > > > > And even though I do know > > > you don't want to hear it, I've seen people hit the reset button. > > > > Fault of the cuber, not the timer. > > > > > > - People do get the chance to get used to stackmats at > competitions > > before the real competition. > > > > - How can you seriously say someone can be a top cuber but not > learn > > hwo to use the stackmat? > > > > - Chris has made nice demonstration videos people can watch > > beforehand. > > > > - People *can* practice *beforehand at home* with PC simulators > that > > behave similarly. > > > > - If you're really serious about cubing, you can spend some money > on a > > stackmat, just like people in other sports spend some money on > their > > equipment. > > > > - The reset-button can easily be protected if necessary like in > Geir's > > solve. > > > > - Is this really far away from Sweden? http://www. > > speedstacksscandinavia.com/dansk/ > > > > > > > Will U layer turns really be a issue after timing has stopped? > Only > > by > > > testing it will we know for sure. > > > > It's natural to start solving as soon as possible and to stop the > > timer as soon as possible. That is, I might want to make a U-turn > > right at the start or right at the end, and I wouldn't even trust > > *myself* that I don't accidentally do it before starting or after > > stopping that new timer. With the stackmat I can be sure I didn't > > cheat. > > > > Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > > Now suppose a handicapped person with only 1 hand wants to > participate in one-handed solving (or something else). How will that > person be able to operate the stackmat? Easy. Instead of the second hand, use your head. It works, I tried it. Happy headache :-) It also works if you cover both pads with one hand. I won't ask to make it a rule, but I myself would actually like to do it that way for one-handed cubing, for the same reason I voted for one-handed preinspection (which is now in the rules), namely that it's more natural. Cheers! Stefan

Just for clarification, I want to know that i have understood the rules right. I am going to hold a competition in my institute in about a month and most of them are newbies. I am the only one here sub 50 the rest are above 90 seconds. And there will be about 15-20 ppl competing hopefully. I am not using any stackmat or any timers but standard JNetCube. So will my competition be official? Please clarify, because if it is, then ppl will start practicing more i hope. Sachin. P.S. and yes spectators will be many :) On 9/15/05, Crispy <redivre@...> wrote: > I failed to notice that the one person only competed > in the one event - my oversight. I was just > understanding that there had to be 10 competitors and > I just took it at least one event had to have 10 > people. I must of just deciphered the rules. > > I am not trying to hinder people from holding > competitions. But while ago you threw out that an > offical comp had to have 10 competitors and no less - > I was just clarifying what I was understanding. > > Thanks to Anders for clearing that up > > --- Tyson Mao <tmao@...> wrote: > > > Please stop trying to hinder other people from > > holding competitions. > > Unless there is a blatant breach of code or conduct, > > I see nothing > > wrong with holding a competition. > > > > So sad, Lesotho hasn't had a competition there. We > > should cut out > > California competitions to balance it out. > > > > Tyson Mao > > MSC #631 > > California Institute of Technology > > > > On Sep 14, 2005, at 1:52 PM, al_yyz wrote: > > > > > Well, Chalmers Open 2005 indeed had ten > > competitors. The tenth, Geir > > > Ugelstad, did not participate in the 3x3x3 > > speedcubing event, only > > > in the 3x3x3 speed blindfolded event. > > > > > > The rules according to speedcubing.com are, I > > quote: > > > > > > - The competition must have at least 10 > > competitors. > > > - There must be an audience of at least 6 persons, > > other than the > > > competitors. > > > > > > Thus, the audience must be at least six persons > > and not ten. > > > > > > /Anders > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, > > Crispy <redivre@y...> > > > wrote: > > >> I am also going to assume that this would apply > > to > > >> everyone? If this is the case then, how was the > > >> Chalmbers Competition Official since there are > > only 9 > > >> people on the board? > > >> > > >> I only ask because if that is the rule it should > > be > > >> the same for everyone - same with every other > > aspect > > >> of competitons. > > >> > > >> --- Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> As far as I remember the WCA rules, that's > > correct > > >>> :-) > > >>> > > >>> Gilles. > > >>> > > >>> 2005/9/14, Crispy <redivre@y...>: > > >>>> Isn't it correct that for a competition to be > > >>>> sanctioned by the WCA it had to have at least > > 10 > > >>>> competitiors and at least so many spectators > > (non > > >>> cubers)? > > >>>> > > >>>> "Hope you have the time of your life" - GD > > >>>> Christy (Crispy) > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> "Hope you have the time of your life" - GD > > >> Christy (Crispy) > > >> > > >> > > __________________________________________________ > > >> Do You Yahoo!? > > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Hope you have the time of your life" - GD > Christy (Crispy) > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Leyan Lo <leyanlo@g...> wrote: > > Can't you put a weight on one sensor and have the competitor use his one > hand to start and stop the timer? That won't work. The stackmat doesn't work with pressure. It works with electricity that goes from one pad through your body to the other pad. Try put a book on the pads, no matter how hard you push it down, it won't have any effect. Similarly, it won't help if the judge puts a hand on the other pad, unless he also touches the competitor skin-to-skin. But I'm not sure this would work, of course the longer the electricity has to "travel", the more likely it gets it's not strong enough to reach the other pad. Cheers! Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@g...> wrote: > > I am not using any stackmat or any timers but > standard JNetCube. So will my competition be official? See article 8: http://www.speedcubing.com/events/regulations.html Stefan

Hey Stefan you reminded me, those videos aren't *exactly* how I stop the timer, though that technique would work too. I remember I had no idea I did anything different until you pointed out that my speed solve stop was different than my demonstration stop. I'll try to correct this as soon as I can, I might be able to get to a video camera this weekend, so I'll work on fixing that. Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > - How can you seriously say someone can be a top cuber but not learn > hwo to use the stackmat? > > - Chris has made nice demonstration videos people can watch > beforehand.

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > Similarly, it won't help if the judge puts a hand on the other pad, > unless he also touches the competitor skin-to-skin. But I'm not sure > this would work, of course the longer the electricity has to "travel", > the more likely it gets it's not strong enough to reach the other pad. I was almost sure this would work. Interesting. ~ Bob

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > > Similarly, it won't help if the judge puts a hand on the other pad, > > unless he also touches the competitor skin-to-skin. But I'm not sure > > this would work, of course the longer the electricity has to "travel", > > the more likely it gets it's not strong enough to reach the other pad. > > I was almost sure this would work. Interesting. > > ~ Bob In the computer industry, literally in the factories where they are made, they have carts that you have to push around on the floor with computer parts on them. My brother used to work at one, that's how I know. Anyway they had wrist bands that you wore that had a long wire (maybe 4-5 ft. (1-1.5m roughly)) long. The end of this wire had a clip that you would clip to a cart just before you touched it so you wouldn't get shocked. The entire wrist band/wire/clip was metal and it basically kept you from shocking your hand really bad each time you touched a new cart. Could we use something like that for a disabled person? You could have them wear this wrist band on their hand/taped to their skin/ we could work on that part. Then clip the metal clip to the timer contact. That way when they hit the other timer contact with their hand there is a completed circuit through them from one pad to the other. It's a complicated solution, and I imagine the strentgh of the signal would be significantly weakened after passing through this wire/wrist band thing, but maybe it just might work? Chris

Thats one very specific rule! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Question about hold competitions > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar > <sachinss@g...> wrote: >> >> I am not using any stackmat or any timers but >> standard JNetCube. So will my competition be official? > > See article 8: > http://www.speedcubing.com/events/regulations.html > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

I suppose I'll throw my hat into the ring. I attended my first competition in August (the Dallas tournament) and it was my first time using an actual Stackmat. I did exactly one practice solve on them before the competition started (had plenty of opportunity to do more). My times were very consistent, and I was happy with my performance in that competition. I think I owe at least some of my comfort with the stackmat to the fact that I built a mockup ( http://tinyurl.com/9wokh scroll down a bit). It cost me all of about $5.00 and was similar enough in function to get me used to the stackmat. I haven't had time to draw up a logic circuit to make it function exactly like a stackmat, but IMHO it's close enough. If you have any skill with electronics at all you should be able to build one. Or heck, I'd make one for you for a small fee ;) . It'd still be ugly though. The only thing about the new timers that I think is an improvement are the extra features, and that has no bearing on competitions with the current system though. I don't think starting and stopping the timer effected my times significantly. Furthermore, the standard has been set and there needs to be a standard. The competition times are simply the time it takes to solve a cube in a competition environment, and that means with a stackmat if it's any competition that matters. I'd rather have everyone with a hair slower time from using handpads (as long as everyone has to use them, the playing field is even) than have the possibility opened up for cheating (even unintentional cheating, as Stefen pointed out). That's just my long winded $0.02USD, Daniel

Just out of curiosity - suppose Daniel made something that worked exactly like a stackmat and looked very like one - according to the rules I guess that wouldn't be allowed to be used in competition? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Hayes" <swedishlf@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] StackMat Timers > I suppose I'll throw my hat into the ring. I attended my first > competition in August (the Dallas tournament) and it was my first time > using an actual Stackmat. I did exactly one practice solve on them > before the competition started (had plenty of opportunity to do more). > My times were very consistent, and I was happy with my performance in > that competition. I think I owe at least some of my comfort with the > stackmat to the fact that I built a mockup ( http://tinyurl.com/9wokh > scroll down a bit). It cost me all of about $5.00 and was similar > enough in function to get me used to the stackmat. I haven't had time > to draw up a logic circuit to make it function exactly like a > stackmat, but IMHO it's close enough. If you have any skill with > electronics at all you should be able to build one. Or heck, I'd make > one for you for a small fee ;) . It'd still be ugly though. > The only thing about the new timers that I think is an improvement are > the extra features, and that has no bearing on competitions with the > current system though. I don't think starting and stopping the timer > effected my times significantly. Furthermore, the standard has been > set and there needs to be a standard. The competition times are > simply the time it takes to solve a cube in a competition environment, > and that means with a stackmat if it's any competition that matters. > I'd rather have everyone with a hair slower time from using handpads > (as long as everyone has to use them, the playing field is even) than > have the possibility opened up for cheating (even unintentional > cheating, as Stefen pointed out). > > That's just my long winded $0.02USD, > Daniel > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Hi Chris, yes, improve that :-). But your videos are already pretty good. I mentioned them because they show how the stackmat works and how it's used. So that people are not completely new to it when they go to a competition. Though I must admit it'd be good if there were an easy to find "what you should know for competing in a contest" tutorial. Nothing fancy, but at least a link to your page/videos and of course to the current rules and maybe the discussion forum for questions. Cheers! Stefan --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Hey Stefan you reminded me, those videos aren't *exactly* how I stop > the timer, though that technique would work too. > > I remember I had no idea I did anything different until you pointed > out that my speed solve stop was different than my demonstration stop. > > I'll try to correct this as soon as I can, I might be able to get to a > video camera this weekend, so I'll work on fixing that. > > Chris > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > - How can you seriously say someone can be a top cuber but not learn > > hwo to use the stackmat? > > > > - Chris has made nice demonstration videos people can watch > > beforehand.

Thanks Stefan for pointing that out. I have a little question with these points : # There must be a WCA delegate (appointed by WCA board) attending the competition. # WCA delegates have to watch during the competition whether the full regulations were followed, and advise the organising team when needed. # WCA delegates must send a report to the WCA board within a week after the competition. What if the competition is taking place in some remote place where theres no possibility of any WCA member to go there? Is the delegate then appointed on the spot or what? And will the delegates come anywhere they are asked to? Like in my institute for example? What abt the travel fees? Im sorry if this has been discussed before, but i am new to these rules kind of stuff, so dnt be angry :) Sachin. On 9/15/05, Duncan Dicks <duncan@...> wrote: > Thats one very specific rule! > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@...> > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 4:33 PM > Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Question about hold competitions > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar > > <sachinss@g...> wrote: > >> > >> I am not using any stackmat or any timers but > >> standard JNetCube. So will my competition be official? > > > > See article 8: > > http://www.speedcubing.com/events/regulations.html > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

I personally would rather be using a stackmat in competitions. This new timer sounds cool, but i would much rather it having hand pads than that light sensor. The question is, how sensitive is it? How close does your cube have to be to stop the timer? Also (some one already said this) what if you pop, and you are planing on putting it back together, but the piece lands on the sensor. Is this a DNF even though you were planning to put it back together? Or do you get another time due to a timer problem? Ive NEVER heard of someone having a problem with the stackmat other than the reset button, but that can be avoided. If an edge lands on the sensor, its not your fault (besides the pop), so what would those rules be? I just dont think its worth it to have to re-write a set of rules that have worked for so long just because some decides to make a new timer. I think we should stick to the stackmat which has never had problems before. Until someone shows us a much MUCH better way to accuratly take a time, the stackmat should stay. Peter Greenwood --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hayes" <swedishlf@h...> wrote: > I suppose I'll throw my hat into the ring. I attended my first > competition in August (the Dallas tournament) and it was my first time > using an actual Stackmat. I did exactly one practice solve on them > before the competition started (had plenty of opportunity to do more). > My times were very consistent, and I was happy with my performance in > that competition. I think I owe at least some of my comfort with the > stackmat to the fact that I built a mockup ( http://tinyurl.com/9wokh > scroll down a bit). It cost me all of about $5.00 and was similar > enough in function to get me used to the stackmat. I haven't had time > to draw up a logic circuit to make it function exactly like a > stackmat, but IMHO it's close enough. If you have any skill with > electronics at all you should be able to build one. Or heck, I'd make > one for you for a small fee ;) . It'd still be ugly though. > The only thing about the new timers that I think is an improvement are > the extra features, and that has no bearing on competitions with the > current system though. I don't think starting and stopping the timer > effected my times significantly. Furthermore, the standard has been > set and there needs to be a standard. The competition times are > simply the time it takes to solve a cube in a competition environment, > and that means with a stackmat if it's any competition that matters. > I'd rather have everyone with a hair slower time from using handpads > (as long as everyone has to use them, the playing field is even) than > have the possibility opened up for cheating (even unintentional > cheating, as Stefen pointed out). > > That's just my long winded $0.02USD, > Daniel

Hi Tyson, Even though I like the idea behind the new timer, I agree that there is no need to change. When I suggested no-inspection solves, many people here surprised me with the times they did. The same goes for "scramble 25 moves and solve." That being the case I'm making a new suggestion. I'd like to see a 1x1x1 competition: Hands on the mat, pick up the cube with both hands and return the cube to the mat on a different side from how it began, and return both hands to the mat. I leave the the allowed inspection time to you :) Anyone know where I can get a 1x1x1 cube. I guess Rubik's race game has several. Anyone want to send me one so I can practice? :) Cheers, David J --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Yes, thank you. Until someone can really say that a new method is > absolutely amazing and far better than what we're using now, there's no > reason to switch. > > I, unfortunately, disagree with your opinion that high speed video > analysis would be the most accurate and most fair timing method. I'll > try to restrain myself because I already gave Quinn an earful for this > same assumption. So, if you're video taping someone, when are you > going to start the time? This question isn't so hard is it? You're > going to say you start the time when the cube first moves. Is it when > the cube first moves or when the cuber touches the cube? What if he > intended to make a move, touched the cube, but his hand slipped and he > didn't make a move? If you drop the shuttlecock in badminton and you > take a swing and you miss, hey, you lose the serve. (It's not the case > in table tennis. But this is irrelevant.) > > All right, so how are you going to define when the timer is stopped. > When the cube is solved of course! Okay, I'm going to give you > unlimited resources here. You have infinite time, everything, precise > cameras, judges... everything. Given unlimited resources, write me a > set of regulations, using video analysis, that defines precisely when > the timer should be stopped. Is it when the final face is aligned? > How aligned does it have to be? Are you going to stop the timer > precisely when the edge of the corner passes the column as defined for > the 2 second penalty rule? > > What if someone gets lucky? Are you going to give them the benefit of > having a shorter time, and not having to react to the fact that the > cube is actually solved? Guy gets lucky, and solves the cube in 14 > seconds. Instead, after the OLL since he didn't know the cube would be > solved, using a normal timer, he would have been stunned for just a > fraction of time, and then reacted to hitting the pads. That's maybe > .3 seconds right there. That's .3 seconds which I think is valid > because, since he was lucky, he wasn't prepared. We shouldn't reward > people for not knowing their cube is solved. > > If you want to claim that high speed video analysis is the most > accurate and fair method of timing, then I challenge you to write a set > of regulations that define exactly how you would implement the said > timing. And, I'm giving you the ability to use unlimited resources. > Now, who could be nicer than me? > > Yijia says, "my mom." Sorry, inside Caltech Ay 1 joke. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology >

I had a similar discussion with Tyson before Chalmers Open (or maybe it was before SveKub Annual). At that time the rules were not as specific as now. As a result of our discussion, the rule "The StackMat timer must be used for time measurement." was included in the regulations, and we was forced to use a stackmat in order to have an official tournament. Crispy, you're welcome. In fact, I was very happy that we had at least ten competitors so we did not face the problem of breaking the rule and the potential discussion of being accepted as official or not. /Anders --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@g...> wrote: > Just for clarification, I want to know that i have understood the > rules right. I am going to hold a competition in my institute in about > a month and most of them are newbies. I am the only one here sub 50 > the rest are above 90 seconds. And there will be about 15-20 ppl > competing hopefully. I am not using any stackmat or any timers but > standard JNetCube. So will my competition be official? Please clarify, > because if it is, then ppl will start practicing more i hope. > > > Sachin. > > P.S. and yes spectators will be many :) > > On 9/15/05, Crispy <redivre@y...> wrote: > > I failed to notice that the one person only competed > > in the one event - my oversight. I was just > > understanding that there had to be 10 competitors and > > I just took it at least one event had to have 10 > > people. I must of just deciphered the rules. > > > > I am not trying to hinder people from holding > > competitions. But while ago you threw out that an > > offical comp had to have 10 competitors and no less - > > I was just clarifying what I was understanding. > > > > Thanks to Anders for clearing that up > >

Hi Sachin, What we normally we do is look for someone whom we can fully trust. Then we declare that person the WCA delegate. So now you know that we fully trust Masayuki and Anders. :-) Have fun (and organize competitions!), Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: Sachin Shirwalkar To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Question about hold competitions Thanks Stefan for pointing that out. I have a little question with these points : # There must be a WCA delegate (appointed by WCA board) attending the competition. # WCA delegates have to watch during the competition whether the full regulations were followed, and advise the organising team when needed. # WCA delegates must send a report to the WCA board within a week after the competition. What if the competition is taking place in some remote place where theres no possibility of any WCA member to go there? Is the delegate then appointed on the spot or what? And will the delegates come anywhere they are asked to? Like in my institute for example? What abt the travel fees? Im sorry if this has been discussed before, but i am new to these rules kind of stuff, so dnt be angry :) Sachin. On 9/15/05, Duncan Dicks <duncan@...> wrote: > Thats one very specific rule! > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@...> > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 4:33 PM > Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Question about hold competitions > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar > > <sachinss@g...> wrote: > >> > >> I am not using any stackmat or any timers but > >> standard JNetCube. So will my competition be official? > > > > See article 8: > > http://www.speedcubing.com/events/regulations.html > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Ron, Tyson, Have you an FAQ page in the works? David J --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron van Bruchem" <ron@s...> wrote: > Hi Sachin, > > What we normally we do is look for someone whom we can fully trust. > Then we declare that person the WCA delegate. > > So now you know that we fully trust Masayuki and Anders. :-) > > Have fun (and organize competitions!), > > Ron > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sachin Shirwalkar > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:12 PM > Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Question about hold competitions > > > Thanks Stefan for pointing that out. I have a little question with > these points : > > # There must be a WCA delegate (appointed by WCA board) attending the > competition. > # WCA delegates have to watch during the competition whether the full > regulations were followed, and advise the organising team when needed. > # WCA delegates must send a report to the WCA board within a week > after the competition. > > What if the competition is taking place in some remote place where > theres no possibility of any WCA member to go there? Is the delegate > then appointed on the spot or what? And will the delegates come > anywhere they are asked to? Like in my institute for example? What abt > the travel fees? > > Im sorry if this has been discussed before, but i am new to these > rules kind of stuff, so dnt be angry :) > > Sachin. > > > On 9/15/05, Duncan Dicks <duncan@d...> wrote: > > Thats one very specific rule! > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> > > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 4:33 PM > > Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Question about hold competitions > > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar > > > <sachinss@g...> wrote: > > >> > > >> I am not using any stackmat or any timers but > > >> standard JNetCube. So will my competition be official? > > > > > > See article 8: > > > http://www.speedcubing.com/events/regulations.html > > > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi David, After WC 2005.... Lots of preparation going on here for the upcoming 5 tournaments I am involved in. Tomorrow I will fly to Poland. :-) Have fun, Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: d_j_salvia To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Question about hold competitions Hi Ron, Tyson, Have you an FAQ page in the works? David J --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron van Bruchem" <ron@s...> wrote: > Hi Sachin, > > What we normally we do is look for someone whom we can fully trust. > Then we declare that person the WCA delegate. > > So now you know that we fully trust Masayuki and Anders. :-) > > Have fun (and organize competitions!), > > Ron > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sachin Shirwalkar > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:12 PM > Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Question about hold competitions > > > Thanks Stefan for pointing that out. I have a little question with > these points : > > # There must be a WCA delegate (appointed by WCA board) attending the > competition. > # WCA delegates have to watch during the competition whether the full > regulations were followed, and advise the organising team when needed. > # WCA delegates must send a report to the WCA board within a week > after the competition. > > What if the competition is taking place in some remote place where > theres no possibility of any WCA member to go there? Is the delegate > then appointed on the spot or what? And will the delegates come > anywhere they are asked to? Like in my institute for example? What abt > the travel fees? > > Im sorry if this has been discussed before, but i am new to these > rules kind of stuff, so dnt be angry :) > > Sachin. > > > On 9/15/05, Duncan Dicks <duncan@d...> wrote: > > Thats one very specific rule! > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> > > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 4:33 PM > > Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Question about hold competitions > > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar > > > <sachinss@g...> wrote: > > >> > > >> I am not using any stackmat or any timers but > > >> standard JNetCube. So will my competition be official? > > > > > > See article 8: > > > http://www.speedcubing.com/events/regulations.html > > > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi friends, For me the 10 is arbitrary. It used to be 8. For officialness we do want enough competitors to make the competition pressure better comparable between competitions. Definitely 2 is too few. Also 5. But from 6 it starts getting less clear. To compare it to other sports: you can not set an official WR during a local athletics club competition, or improve your Chess ELO in the fun tournament in your local pub. I still think 10 is a good number. But if only 8 people would show up in the end, we would definitely openly discuss this on the WCA forum afterwards. Of course you can ALWAYS organize a competition and have fun. Hopefully one day everyone will have his chance to compete, at least in a local competition. The way the number of competitions is rising each year from 2003, we will have 1,000 tournaments in 2007. :-) Have fun, Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: Anders Larsson To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Question about hold competitions I had a similar discussion with Tyson before Chalmers Open (or maybe it was before SveKub Annual). At that time the rules were not as specific as now. As a result of our discussion, the rule "The StackMat timer must be used for time measurement." was included in the regulations, and we was forced to use a stackmat in order to have an official tournament. Crispy, you're welcome. In fact, I was very happy that we had at least ten competitors so we did not face the problem of breaking the rule and the potential discussion of being accepted as official or not. /Anders --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@g...> wrote: > Just for clarification, I want to know that i have understood the > rules right. I am going to hold a competition in my institute in about > a month and most of them are newbies. I am the only one here sub 50 > the rest are above 90 seconds. And there will be about 15-20 ppl > competing hopefully. I am not using any stackmat or any timers but > standard JNetCube. So will my competition be official? Please clarify, > because if it is, then ppl will start practicing more i hope. > > > Sachin. > > P.S. and yes spectators will be many :) > > On 9/15/05, Crispy <redivre@y...> wrote: > > I failed to notice that the one person only competed > > in the one event - my oversight. I was just > > understanding that there had to be 10 competitors and > > I just took it at least one event had to have 10 > > people. I must of just deciphered the rules. > > > > I am not trying to hinder people from holding > > competitions. But while ago you threw out that an > > offical comp had to have 10 competitors and no less - > > I was just clarifying what I was understanding. > > > > Thanks to Anders for clearing that up > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fellow cubers, Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 is quite hard, especially for novice scramblers with the inner slice moves (lrfbud). Therefore we investigated some options, and found out that the inner slice moves (lrfbud) do not result in better scrambles than double slice moves (Ll Rr Ff Bb Uu Dd). Because the latter moves are easier to execute we decided to change the scrambling program to use a mix of normal moves LRFBUD and double slice moves Ll Rr Ff Bb Uu Dd. Jaap was as kind as to change his programs. Just try the Multi Slice checkbox in the cube scrambling program. We are open for feedback on the WCA forum. Thanks, Ron

"What we normally we do is look for someone whom we can fully trust. Then we declare that person the WCA delegate." Hello Ron. So if i want to make my competition official, do i need to call one of you guys to inspect it? Ofcourse im not saying that i want to make my competition official rt now, but maybe in an year or so, we'll have enough speedcubers to have a decent enuf competition. Is there anyone from India one of your delegates? And what will I have to do to be a delegate? [Maybe bribe someone ;) ?] Sachin. On 9/16/05, Ron van Bruchem <ron@...> wrote: > Hi friends, > > For me the 10 is arbitrary. It used to be 8. For officialness we do want enough competitors to make the competition pressure better comparable between competitions. > Definitely 2 is too few. Also 5. But from 6 it starts getting less clear. > To compare it to other sports: you can not set an official WR during a local athletics club competition, or improve your Chess ELO in the fun tournament in your local pub. > > I still think 10 is a good number. But if only 8 people would show up in the end, we would definitely openly discuss this on the WCA forum afterwards. > > Of course you can ALWAYS organize a competition and have fun. > Hopefully one day everyone will have his chance to compete, at least in a local competition. > The way the number of competitions is rising each year from 2003, we will have 1,000 tournaments in 2007. :-) > > Have fun, > > Ron > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Anders Larsson > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:30 PM > Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Question about hold competitions > > > I had a similar discussion with Tyson before Chalmers Open (or maybe > it was before SveKub Annual). At that time the rules were not as > specific as now. As a result of our discussion, the rule "The > StackMat timer must be used for time measurement." was included in > the regulations, and we was forced to use a stackmat in order to > have an official tournament. > > Crispy, you're welcome. In fact, I was very happy that we had at > least ten competitors so we did not face the problem of breaking the > rule and the potential discussion of being accepted as official or > not. > > /Anders > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar > <sachinss@g...> wrote: > > Just for clarification, I want to know that i have understood the > > rules right. I am going to hold a competition in my institute in > about > > a month and most of them are newbies. I am the only one here sub 50 > > the rest are above 90 seconds. And there will be about 15-20 ppl > > competing hopefully. I am not using any stackmat or any timers but > > standard JNetCube. So will my competition be official? Please > clarify, > > because if it is, then ppl will start practicing more i hope. > > > > > > Sachin. > > > > P.S. and yes spectators will be many :) > > > > On 9/15/05, Crispy <redivre@y...> wrote: > > > I failed to notice that the one person only competed > > > in the one event - my oversight. I was just > > > understanding that there had to be 10 competitors and > > > I just took it at least one event had to have 10 > > > people. I must of just deciphered the rules. > > > > > > I am not trying to hinder people from holding > > > competitions. But while ago you threw out that an > > > offical comp had to have 10 competitors and no less - > > > I was just clarifying what I was understanding. > > > > > > Thanks to Anders for clearing that up > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Thats actually great news. Being the main scrambler for all events except the 2x2x2 and Rubiks Magic at the Swedish Championships, I really appreciate it. I always dread scrambling the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 much due to to the inner slice moves, but now I don't have to... whoppeeee... hmmm... now if you only could change the scramble length from 40 and 60 to around 10 instead it would be great ;) /Gustav --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <ron@s...> wrote: > Fellow cubers, > > Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 is quite hard, especially for novice > scramblers with the inner slice moves (lrfbud). Therefore we > investigated some options, and found out that the inner slice moves > (lrfbud) do not result in better scrambles than double slice moves > (Ll Rr Ff Bb Uu Dd). > > Because the latter moves are easier to execute we decided to change > the scrambling program to use a mix of normal moves LRFBUD and > double slice moves Ll Rr Ff Bb Uu Dd. > > Jaap was as kind as to change his programs. Just try the Multi Slice > checkbox in the cube scrambling program. > > We are open for feedback on the WCA forum. > > Thanks, > > Ron

Looking closely at the cube, I get the feeling this solution book must be pretty bad ;-) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5998515764 Cheers! Stefan

What methods were used to determine that these scrambles were good enough? Does it reach the same depth as scrambling with only inner slice moves? I mean intuitively this seems like it should still create good scrambles (using double turns), but are double turns counted as one or two moves? This makes a difference. If you do (Rr) is that doing 1 or 2 moves for a competition scramble? if you count it as 1 then what happens if the scramble generates r R as two single turns, would that also be counted as one move? If you count it as two moves, what would a scamble look like that generates all double turn and no inner slice turn scrambles? Maybe most of them are still veyr well scrambled, but is there a large subset of cases where the cube is very easily setup. Do we know about the depth of 40 turns using no inner slice turns, only double turns? I would like to see some more clarification of this personally. I think just saying it seems ok is not rigorous enough. I think that double turns (counted as 1 move) should make scrambling easier and should still provide good scrambles. However, this brings up the issue of whether the scramble generates (Rr) or r R so it can be either 1 or 2 moves. Can you please clarify this decision more Ron? I'm skeptical of this change unless it is quantified or at least backed up with some arguments. Thanks, Chris P.S. I know you guys scramble lots of cubes for competitions in a short time, and I agree that would get old VERY quickly. But do you use shortcuts to simplify moves. For example, from this scramble from JNetcube you can simplify some moves: D2 b d2 U b u' b f u2 B' R2 r d' F2 U' B2 u2 l d L2 d2 D2 b f2 u2 F2 D2 l' D f2 R2 D2 f' B' R' b2 L2 R F B' [B' R2 r d'] can simplify to [B' (Rr) R (Dd)' D] [b f2] can simplify to [(F' f' b) (F' f') F2] things like that in scrambles make the scrambling a bit easier. I'm sure you guys already do this to some extent, but I wanted to ask. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <ron@s...> wrote: > Fellow cubers, > > Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 is quite hard, especially for novice > scramblers with the inner slice moves (lrfbud). Therefore we > investigated some options, and found out that the inner slice moves > (lrfbud) do not result in better scrambles than double slice moves > (Ll Rr Ff Bb Uu Dd). > > Because the latter moves are easier to execute we decided to change > the scrambling program to use a mix of normal moves LRFBUD and > double slice moves Ll Rr Ff Bb Uu Dd. > > Jaap was as kind as to change his programs. Just try the Multi Slice > checkbox in the cube scrambling program. > > We are open for feedback on the WCA forum. > > Thanks, > > Ron

Hi Chris, Of course Rr is then counted as 1 move. We asked our expert Jaap for advice on this subject. Maybe he can explain why this is the case? I tried it personally with increasing numbers of moves (2, 3, 4 et cetera) and indeed the scrambles look the same. With inner slice moves, the corners are not separated from the other inner slices and the opposite outer slice. With double slice moves, the corner is not separated from the connecting inner slice, but it is from all other slices. With 40 (4x4x4) and 60 (5x5x5) mixed outer and double moves the chances are high that all pieces are separated. But I am no expert. :-) Btw. the 40 and 60 moves are arbitrary. We did a rough estimate of the maximum depth of these puzzles, also with help from Jaap. Have fun, Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: cmhardw To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 11:02 PM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier What methods were used to determine that these scrambles were good enough? Does it reach the same depth as scrambling with only inner slice moves? I mean intuitively this seems like it should still create good scrambles (using double turns), but are double turns counted as one or two moves? This makes a difference. If you do (Rr) is that doing 1 or 2 moves for a competition scramble? if you count it as 1 then what happens if the scramble generates r R as two single turns, would that also be counted as one move? If you count it as two moves, what would a scamble look like that generates all double turn and no inner slice turn scrambles? Maybe most of them are still veyr well scrambled, but is there a large subset of cases where the cube is very easily setup. Do we know about the depth of 40 turns using no inner slice turns, only double turns? I would like to see some more clarification of this personally. I think just saying it seems ok is not rigorous enough. I think that double turns (counted as 1 move) should make scrambling easier and should still provide good scrambles. However, this brings up the issue of whether the scramble generates (Rr) or r R so it can be either 1 or 2 moves. Can you please clarify this decision more Ron? I'm skeptical of this change unless it is quantified or at least backed up with some arguments. Thanks, Chris P.S. I know you guys scramble lots of cubes for competitions in a short time, and I agree that would get old VERY quickly. But do you use shortcuts to simplify moves. For example, from this scramble from JNetcube you can simplify some moves: D2 b d2 U b u' b f u2 B' R2 r d' F2 U' B2 u2 l d L2 d2 D2 b f2 u2 F2 D2 l' D f2 R2 D2 f' B' R' b2 L2 R F B' [B' R2 r d'] can simplify to [B' (Rr) R (Dd)' D] [b f2] can simplify to [(F' f' b) (F' f') F2] things like that in scrambles make the scrambling a bit easier. I'm sure you guys already do this to some extent, but I wanted to ask. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <ron@s...> wrote: > Fellow cubers, > > Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 is quite hard, especially for novice > scramblers with the inner slice moves (lrfbud). Therefore we > investigated some options, and found out that the inner slice moves > (lrfbud) do not result in better scrambles than double slice moves > (Ll Rr Ff Bb Uu Dd). > > Because the latter moves are easier to execute we decided to change > the scrambling program to use a mix of normal moves LRFBUD and > double slice moves Ll Rr Ff Bb Uu Dd. > > Jaap was as kind as to change his programs. Just try the Multi Slice > checkbox in the cube scrambling program. > > We are open for feedback on the WCA forum. > > Thanks, > > Ron ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry Mike if I was a bit too harsh. But you're right, there's no way to define lucky because lucky depends on the method and we can't define someone's method either. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 14, 2005, at 8:40 PM, Mike Bennett wrote: > Touche. I pondered this for quite a while, and realized, you're > right. There isn't a fair way to call the end of a solve. The > beginning could just be when the cube starts turning, but that's > irrelevant when the end is undefinable. > > The closest I came was to say when they stopped physically turning the > cube, but that doesn't account for lucky cases. In any other case, it > would work fine. I thought of proposing a penalty for lucky cases, > but that didn't make sense, because how do you penalize for being > lucky? Where to start? > > In the end, Tyson, I think you've put waaay too much thought into > this. I concede defeat. > > -Mike Bennett > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

> What methods were used to determine that these scrambles were good enough? > > Does it reach the same depth as scrambling with only inner slice moves? Hi I don't know exactly how different between single slice move and double. #1 In Japanese Championship, we generated scrambling algorithm by Jaaps' program. #2 Translate the algorithm into another language which fit for RevengePlayer or ProfessorPlayer. As you know they are great JAVA cube which are provided by Mr. Randelshofer. http://www.randelshofer.ch/ #3 Use parameter.html (included in the holder of Players), you can generate HTML code to show algorithm on JAVA cube. (You can easily translate the code. We used excel macro. ) #4 Scramble helper clicks computer mouse, scrambler mimic the movement on computer. It was better to put cube on the desk to scramble. If you grab it, you may drop. They can check the cube status every single movement. Although 5x5x5 and 4x4x4 were the first even during the competition, they failed only once to finish designated scramble. (There are no one to solve 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 among scramblers!) I strongly recommed to use this system for competiton, but some PU power is needed for smooth movement of JAVA cube.

Gosh, my lack of internet access last night means I'm catching up on everything now. The whole "cost" thing is a bad argument because the new Rubik's timer costs almost double the price of a StackMat. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 15, 2005, at 5:32 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gustav Fredell > <gufr5747@s...> wrote: >> >> I've seen people get +0.5 seconds or more just beacuse they >> don't have a perfect "StackMat"-technique. > > Fault of the cuber, not the timer. > >> I've also seen cubes dropped >> from height onto the mat, just to fall into pieces, because the >> competitor want's to minimize that extra time. > > Fault of the cuber, not the timer. > >> And even though I do know >> you don't want to hear it, I've seen people hit the reset button. > > Fault of the cuber, not the timer. > > > - People do get the chance to get used to stackmats at competitions > before the real competition. > > - How can you seriously say someone can be a top cuber but not learn > hwo to use the stackmat? > > - Chris has made nice demonstration videos people can watch > beforehand. > > - People *can* practice *beforehand at home* with PC simulators that > behave similarly. > > - If you're really serious about cubing, you can spend some money on a > stackmat, just like people in other sports spend some money on their > equipment. > > - The reset-button can easily be protected if necessary like in Geir's > solve. > > - Is this really far away from Sweden? http://www. > speedstacksscandinavia.com/dansk/ > > >> Will U layer turns really be a issue after timing has stopped? Only > by >> testing it will we know for sure. > > It's natural to start solving as soon as possible and to stop the > timer as soon as possible. That is, I might want to make a U-turn > right at the start or right at the end, and I wouldn't even trust > *myself* that I don't accidentally do it before starting or after > stopping that new timer. With the stackmat I can be sure I didn't > cheat. > > Stefan > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Yes it has. Alex Datuin, uh... Caltech Spring Competition 2004. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 15, 2005, at 5:58 AM, Bob Burton wrote: > Actually, I don't think this would be so. If it was an isolated > incident, unless the judge clearly noticed that the time stopped > running during the solve, I think the competitor could be accused to > somehow resetting the timer or something. It seems like such an > unlikely event that the competitor *MUST* have done something wrong. > Has it happened before? > > ~ Bob > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > <pochmann@g...> wrote: >> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay >> <cubekid@g...> wrote: >>> >>> Though this brings up a question. What if a timer like this ends up >> in >>> a competition and does this during a solve?? >> >> As far as I remember, you'll get a replacement attempt. >> >> Stefan > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Yeah sorry Sachin. If you aren't using a StackMat, we can't let you have an official competition. Even while just timing at home, I see myself occasionally starting to solve before the final beep. The temptation is very great. Feel free to e-mail me if you would like and we can discuss ways of you obtaining timers. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 15, 2005, at 8:29 AM, Sachin Shirwalkar wrote: > Just for clarification, I want to know that i have understood the > rules right. I am going to hold a competition in my institute in about > a month and most of them are newbies. I am the only one here sub 50 > the rest are above 90 seconds. And there will be about 15-20 ppl > competing hopefully. I am not using any stackmat or any timers but > standard JNetCube. So will my competition be official? Please clarify, > because if it is, then ppl will start practicing more i hope. > > > Sachin. > > P.S. and yes spectators will be many :) > > On 9/15/05, Crispy <redivre@...> wrote: >> I failed to notice that the one person only competed >> in the one event - my oversight. I was just >> understanding that there had to be 10 competitors and >> I just took it at least one event had to have 10 >> people. I must of just deciphered the rules. >> >> I am not trying to hinder people from holding >> competitions. But while ago you threw out that an >> offical comp had to have 10 competitors and no less - >> I was just clarifying what I was understanding. >> >> Thanks to Anders for clearing that up >> >> --- Tyson Mao <tmao@...> wrote: >> >>> Please stop trying to hinder other people from >>> holding competitions. >>> Unless there is a blatant breach of code or conduct, >>> I see nothing >>> wrong with holding a competition. >>> >>> So sad, Lesotho hasn't had a competition there. We >>> should cut out >>> California competitions to balance it out. >>> >>> Tyson Mao >>> MSC #631 >>> California Institute of Technology >>> >>> On Sep 14, 2005, at 1:52 PM, al_yyz wrote: >>> >>>> Well, Chalmers Open 2005 indeed had ten >>> competitors. The tenth, Geir >>>> Ugelstad, did not participate in the 3x3x3 >>> speedcubing event, only >>>> in the 3x3x3 speed blindfolded event. >>>> >>>> The rules according to speedcubing.com are, I >>> quote: >>>> >>>> - The competition must have at least 10 >>> competitors. >>>> - There must be an audience of at least 6 persons, >>> other than the >>>> competitors. >>>> >>>> Thus, the audience must be at least six persons >>> and not ten. >>>> >>>> /Anders >>>> >>>> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, >>> Crispy <redivre@y...> >>>> wrote: >>>>> I am also going to assume that this would apply >>> to >>>>> everyone? If this is the case then, how was the >>>>> Chalmbers Competition Official since there are >>> only 9 >>>>> people on the board? >>>>> >>>>> I only ask because if that is the rule it should >>> be >>>>> the same for everyone - same with every other >>> aspect >>>>> of competitons. >>>>> >>>>> --- Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> As far as I remember the WCA rules, that's >>> correct >>>>>> :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> Gilles. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2005/9/14, Crispy <redivre@y...>: >>>>>>> Isn't it correct that for a competition to be >>>>>>> sanctioned by the WCA it had to have at least >>> 10 >>>>>>> competitiors and at least so many spectators >>> (non >>>>>> cubers)? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Hope you have the time of your life" - GD >>>>>>> Christy (Crispy) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Hope you have the time of your life" - GD >>>>> Christy (Crispy) >>>>> >>>>> >>> __________________________________________________ >>>>> Do You Yahoo!? >>>>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam >>> protection around >>>>> http://mail.yahoo.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> "Hope you have the time of your life" - GD >> Christy (Crispy) >> >> >> >> __________________________________ >> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

It's a capacitance thing. When there's a one-handed competitor, we'll deal with it. The people who solve with feet aren't having any problems at this moment. I'm sure we'll find a way around a competitor with only one-hand. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 15, 2005, at 8:28 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Leyan Lo <leyanlo@g...> > wrote: >> >> Can't you put a weight on one sensor and have the competitor use his > one >> hand to start and stop the timer? > > That won't work. The stackmat doesn't work with pressure. It works > with electricity that goes from one pad through your body to the other > pad. Try put a book on the pads, no matter how hard you push it down, > it won't have any effect. > > Similarly, it won't help if the judge puts a hand on the other pad, > unless he also touches the competitor skin-to-skin. But I'm not sure > this would work, of course the longer the electricity has to "travel", > the more likely it gets it's not strong enough to reach the other pad. > > Cheers! > Stefan > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

WCA delegates can be appointed. I'm not going to Idaho but Chris Hunt has been appointed the delegate for that competition and Frank Morris is the competition director/organizer. Sweden does not have a board member but Anders has been given WCA delegate privileges every time so far. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 15, 2005, at 12:12 PM, Sachin Shirwalkar wrote: > Thanks Stefan for pointing that out. I have a little question with > these points : > > # There must be a WCA delegate (appointed by WCA board) attending the > competition. > # WCA delegates have to watch during the competition whether the full > regulations were followed, and advise the organising team when needed. > # WCA delegates must send a report to the WCA board within a week > after the competition. > > What if the competition is taking place in some remote place where > theres no possibility of any WCA member to go there? Is the delegate > then appointed on the spot or what? And will the delegates come > anywhere they are asked to? Like in my institute for example? What abt > the travel fees? > > Im sorry if this has been discussed before, but i am new to these > rules kind of stuff, so dnt be angry :) > > Sachin. > > > On 9/15/05, Duncan Dicks <duncan@...> wrote: >> Thats one very specific rule! >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@...> >> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 4:33 PM >> Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Question about hold competitions >> >> >>> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar >>> <sachinss@g...> wrote: >>>> >>>> I am not using any stackmat or any timers but >>>> standard JNetCube. So will my competition be official? >>> >>> See article 8: >>> http://www.speedcubing.com/events/regulations.html >>> >>> Stefan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

> #2 > Translate the algorithm into another language which fit for > RevengePlayer or ProfessorPlayer. > > As you know they are great JAVA cube which are provided by Mr. > Randelshofer. > > http://www.randelshofer.ch/ > > #3 > Use parameter.html (included in the holder of Players), you can > generate HTML code to show algorithm on JAVA cube. > (You can easily translate the code. We used excel macro. ) In addition they also provide the codes for double slice moves which we didn't use. You can still use this evenif double slice moves are required. This page was made for scrambling 3x3x3. For big cubes, you need to translate but the outline of procedure is basically same. http://rokumentai.akimoto3.com/scramble.html (Sorry, only in Japanese right now.) But I believe you can see pictures. Masayuki

Uh... the StackMat has a 0.32 second delay so that you don't accidentally stop the timer after you immediately pick up your hands. We'd kind of need a more accurate timer for that. Though... I'd LOVE to get my hands on a 1x1x1 cube. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 15, 2005, at 12:30 PM, d_j_salvia wrote: > Hi Tyson, > > Even though I like the idea behind the new timer, I agree that there > is no need to change. > > When I suggested no-inspection solves, many people here surprised me > with the times they did. The same goes for "scramble 25 moves and > solve." That being the case I'm making a new suggestion. > > I'd like to see a 1x1x1 competition: > > Hands on the mat, pick up the cube with both hands and return the cube > to the mat on a different side from how it began, and return both > hands to the mat. I leave the the allowed inspection time to you :) > > Anyone know where I can get a 1x1x1 cube. I guess Rubik's race game > has several. Anyone want to send me one so I can practice? :) > > Cheers, > > David J > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > wrote: >> Yes, thank you. Until someone can really say that a new method is >> absolutely amazing and far better than what we're using now, there's >> no >> reason to switch. >> >> I, unfortunately, disagree with your opinion that high speed video >> analysis would be the most accurate and most fair timing method. I'll >> try to restrain myself because I already gave Quinn an earful for this >> same assumption. So, if you're video taping someone, when are you >> going to start the time? This question isn't so hard is it? You're >> going to say you start the time when the cube first moves. Is it when >> the cube first moves or when the cuber touches the cube? What if he >> intended to make a move, touched the cube, but his hand slipped and he >> didn't make a move? If you drop the shuttlecock in badminton and you >> take a swing and you miss, hey, you lose the serve. (It's not the >> case >> in table tennis. But this is irrelevant.) >> >> All right, so how are you going to define when the timer is stopped. >> When the cube is solved of course! Okay, I'm going to give you >> unlimited resources here. You have infinite time, everything, precise >> cameras, judges... everything. Given unlimited resources, write me a >> set of regulations, using video analysis, that defines precisely when >> the timer should be stopped. Is it when the final face is aligned? >> How aligned does it have to be? Are you going to stop the timer >> precisely when the edge of the corner passes the column as defined for >> the 2 second penalty rule? >> >> What if someone gets lucky? Are you going to give them the benefit of >> having a shorter time, and not having to react to the fact that the >> cube is actually solved? Guy gets lucky, and solves the cube in 14 >> seconds. Instead, after the OLL since he didn't know the cube would >> be >> solved, using a normal timer, he would have been stunned for just a >> fraction of time, and then reacted to hitting the pads. That's maybe >> .3 seconds right there. That's .3 seconds which I think is valid >> because, since he was lucky, he wasn't prepared. We shouldn't reward >> people for not knowing their cube is solved. >> >> If you want to claim that high speed video analysis is the most >> accurate and fair method of timing, then I challenge you to write a >> set >> of regulations that define exactly how you would implement the said >> timing. And, I'm giving you the ability to use unlimited resources. >> Now, who could be nicer than me? >> >> Yijia says, "my mom." Sorry, inside Caltech Ay 1 joke. >> >> Tyson Mao >> MSC #631 >> California Institute of Technology >> > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

If the timer fails and it's not your fault, you get a replacement attempt. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 15, 2005, at 5:34 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay > <cubekid@g...> wrote: >> >> Though this brings up a question. What if a timer like this ends up > in >> a competition and does this during a solve?? > > As far as I remember, you'll get a replacement attempt. > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

any tips/tricks??? I am taking a 2 hour drive with my volleyball team tomorrow and some guys wanna learn, so I told them I'd teach them, but I don't know how to without making it confusing... Any hlp would ROCK... Craig

LOL - I see it! :) --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > Looking closely at the cube, I get the feeling this solution book must > be pretty bad ;-) > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5998515764 > > Cheers! > Stefan

Hey Ron, Sorry to be a pain, but I just want to get this cleared up. So does the scramble generator pick among the following possible moves? : L l r R F f b B U u d D (Ll) (Rr) (Ff) (Bb) (Uu) (Dd) So what if it generates (Rr) R' r' = nothing, or (Rr) (Ll) = (Rr)2 x', or (Rr) r2 = r' R, or (Rr) l D2 = L l2 B2 x Are all of these problem scenarios being accounted for in the scramble generators? Also what happens if the program generates: (Rr) D F2 r R F R2 How is each (Rr) to be counted? Clearly the move (Rr) was one move and was generated as a new double turn. But does the r R count as one move too? It is the same effect as (Rr). If these moves are not both counted at one move, then that would be using a double standard for counting moves. If there are both considered one move, then the scramble program has to account for that and add an extra move (or double move) at the end. This sounds really problematic to switch to scrabling this way and I am not in favor of it. If all the problems can be worked out then I will be quiet, but so far I am not satisfied. Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron van Bruchem" <ron@s...> wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Of course Rr is then counted as 1 move. > We asked our expert Jaap for advice on this subject. Maybe he can explain why this is the case? > > I tried it personally with increasing numbers of moves (2, 3, 4 et cetera) and indeed the scrambles look the same. > With inner slice moves, the corners are not separated from the other inner slices and the opposite outer slice. With double slice moves, the corner is not separated from the connecting inner slice, but it is from all other slices. With 40 (4x4x4) and 60 (5x5x5) mixed outer and double moves the chances are high that all pieces are separated. > But I am no expert. :-) > > Btw. the 40 and 60 moves are arbitrary. We did a rough estimate of the maximum depth of these puzzles, also with help from Jaap. > > Have fun, > > Ron

Ha. -Chris On 9/15/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@...> wrote: > > Looking closely at the cube, I get the feeling this solution book must > be pretty bad ;-) > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5998515764 > > Cheers! > Stefan > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It is my belief that is picks from these moves: L R F B D U (Ll) (Rr) (Ff) (Bb) (Dd) (Uu) Eliminating the inner slice moves. -Chris On 9/15/05, cmhardw <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > Hey Ron, > > Sorry to be a pain, but I just want to get this cleared up. > > So does the scramble generator pick among the following possible moves? > : > > L l r R F f b B U u d D (Ll) (Rr) (Ff) (Bb) (Uu) (Dd) > > So what if it generates (Rr) R' r' = nothing, or (Rr) (Ll) = (Rr)2 x', > or (Rr) r2 = r' R, or (Rr) l D2 = L l2 B2 x > > Are all of these problem scenarios being accounted for in the scramble > generators? > > Also what happens if the program generates: > (Rr) D F2 r R F R2 > > How is each (Rr) to be counted? Clearly the move (Rr) was one move > and was generated as a new double turn. But does the r R count as one > move too? It is the same effect as (Rr). > > If these moves are not both counted at one move, then that would be > using a double standard for counting moves. If there are both > considered one move, then the scramble program has to account for that > and add an extra move (or double move) at the end. > > This sounds really problematic to switch to scrabling this way and I > am not in favor of it. > > If all the problems can be worked out then I will be quiet, but so far > I am not satisfied. > > Chris > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron van Bruchem" > <ron@s...> wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > > > Of course Rr is then counted as 1 move. > > We asked our expert Jaap for advice on this subject. Maybe he can > explain why this is the case? > > > > I tried it personally with increasing numbers of moves (2, 3, 4 et > cetera) and indeed the scrambles look the same. > > With inner slice moves, the corners are not separated from the other > inner slices and the opposite outer slice. With double slice moves, > the corner is not separated from the connecting inner slice, but it is > from all other slices. With 40 (4x4x4) and 60 (5x5x5) mixed outer and > double moves the chances are high that all pieces are separated. > > But I am no expert. :-) > > > > Btw. the 40 and 60 moves are arbitrary. We did a rough estimate of > the maximum depth of these puzzles, also with help from Jaap. > > > > Have fun, > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Chris, please don't think this is aimed at you it is not. But I'm using your post as an example. If the scrambling programs draws from L R F B D U (Ll) (Rr) (Ff) (Bb) (Dd) (Uu) then what happens if it scrambles with (Ll) L'. Clearly this is two moves by our new standard, but I would be very hard pressed to accept the turn (l) as a two move turn to our scramble. Also (Rr)2 R2 = r2 would be a problem. (Rr) R would be r R2 which I would agree is two moves. what about (Rr) (Ll) = (Rr)2 and a cube rotation. I would be hard pressed to call (Rr)2 two turns as well. But it can be done with this new scrambling technique. Please don't think I am lazy, I have actually asked Dave Jones if I can scramble for the 5x5 event in Orlando and I would much rather allow single inner slice turns than using these double turns. Double turns like this make me very nervous, as we haven't seen any proof that they are as efficient as regular scrambling. I would much rather not allow this new double turn scrambling and just scramble the regular way. Is there a forum for this on the WCA site or should we leave dicussion for this topic here? In short I do not agree with using double turn scrambling like this. Can someone please propose, in depth, what exactly the scramble generators will do, and how the resulting problems will be resolved? Sorry to be a pain, but I really do not agree with this, and it does not stem from my laziness. If Dave will let me I would be more than willing to help scramble for the 5x5x5 event and use the regular scrambing system and not these new double turns. Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hunt <huntca@g...> wrote: > It is my belief that is picks from these moves: > > L R F B D U (Ll) (Rr) (Ff) (Bb) (Dd) (Uu) > > Eliminating the inner slice moves. > > -Chris > > On 9/15/05, cmhardw <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > Hey Ron, > > > > Sorry to be a pain, but I just want to get this cleared up. > > > > So does the scramble generator pick among the following possible moves? > > : > > > > L l r R F f b B U u d D (Ll) (Rr) (Ff) (Bb) (Uu) (Dd) > > > > So what if it generates (Rr) R' r' = nothing, or (Rr) (Ll) = (Rr)2 x', > > or (Rr) r2 = r' R, or (Rr) l D2 = L l2 B2 x > > > > Are all of these problem scenarios being accounted for in the scramble > > generators? > > > > Also what happens if the program generates: > > (Rr) D F2 r R F R2 > > > > How is each (Rr) to be counted? Clearly the move (Rr) was one move > > and was generated as a new double turn. But does the r R count as one > > move too? It is the same effect as (Rr). > > > > If these moves are not both counted at one move, then that would be > > using a double standard for counting moves. If there are both > > considered one move, then the scramble program has to account for that > > and add an extra move (or double move) at the end. > > > > This sounds really problematic to switch to scrabling this way and I > > am not in favor of it. > > > > If all the problems can be worked out then I will be quiet, but so far > > I am not satisfied. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron van Bruchem" > > <ron@s...> wrote: > > > Hi Chris, > > > > > > Of course Rr is then counted as 1 move. > > > We asked our expert Jaap for advice on this subject. Maybe he can > > explain why this is the case? > > > > > > I tried it personally with increasing numbers of moves (2, 3, 4 et > > cetera) and indeed the scrambles look the same. > > > With inner slice moves, the corners are not separated from the other > > inner slices and the opposite outer slice. With double slice moves, > > the corner is not separated from the connecting inner slice, but it is > > from all other slices. With 40 (4x4x4) and 60 (5x5x5) mixed outer and > > double moves the chances are high that all pieces are separated. > > > But I am no expert. :-) > > > > > > Btw. the 40 and 60 moves are arbitrary. We did a rough estimate of > > the maximum depth of these puzzles, also with help from Jaap. > > > > > > Have fun, > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

How is this beef any different than any other scrambling program? You can currently get R r from any program, and that counts as two moves. You're just trading which set of moves counts as two, and which as one. The only real difference here is for ease of scrambling. -Mike Bennett --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Chris, please don't think this is aimed at you it is not. But I'm > using your post as an example. > > If the scrambling programs draws from L R F B D U (Ll) (Rr) (Ff) (Bb) > (Dd) (Uu) then what happens if it scrambles with > > (Ll) L'. Clearly this is two moves by our new standard, but I would > be very hard pressed to accept the turn (l) as a two move turn to our > scramble. > > Also (Rr)2 R2 = r2 would be a problem. > > (Rr) R would be r R2 which I would agree is two moves. > > what about (Rr) (Ll) = (Rr)2 and a cube rotation. I would be hard > pressed to call (Rr)2 two turns as well. But it can be done with this > new scrambling technique. > > Please don't think I am lazy, I have actually asked Dave Jones if I > can scramble for the 5x5 event in Orlando and I would much rather > allow single inner slice turns than using these double turns. > > Double turns like this make me very nervous, as we haven't seen any > proof that they are as efficient as regular scrambling. > > I would much rather not allow this new double turn scrambling and just > scramble the regular way. Is there a forum for this on the WCA site > or should we leave dicussion for this topic here? > > In short I do not agree with using double turn scrambling like this. > Can someone please propose, in depth, what exactly the scramble > generators will do, and how the resulting problems will be resolved? > > Sorry to be a pain, but I really do not agree with this, and it does > not stem from my laziness. If Dave will let me I would be more than > willing to help scramble for the 5x5x5 event and use the regular > scrambing system and not these new double turns. > > Chris > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hunt > <huntca@g...> wrote: > > It is my belief that is picks from these moves: > > > > L R F B D U (Ll) (Rr) (Ff) (Bb) (Dd) (Uu) > > > > Eliminating the inner slice moves. > > > > -Chris > > > > On 9/15/05, cmhardw <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hey Ron, > > > > > > Sorry to be a pain, but I just want to get this cleared up. > > > > > > So does the scramble generator pick among the following possible > moves? > > > : > > > > > > L l r R F f b B U u d D (Ll) (Rr) (Ff) (Bb) (Uu) (Dd) > > > > > > So what if it generates (Rr) R' r' = nothing, or (Rr) (Ll) = (Rr)2 x', > > > or (Rr) r2 = r' R, or (Rr) l D2 = L l2 B2 x > > > > > > Are all of these problem scenarios being accounted for in the scramble > > > generators? > > > > > > Also what happens if the program generates: > > > (Rr) D F2 r R F R2 > > > > > > How is each (Rr) to be counted? Clearly the move (Rr) was one move > > > and was generated as a new double turn. But does the r R count as one > > > move too? It is the same effect as (Rr). > > > > > > If these moves are not both counted at one move, then that would be > > > using a double standard for counting moves. If there are both > > > considered one move, then the scramble program has to account for that > > > and add an extra move (or double move) at the end. > > > > > > This sounds really problematic to switch to scrabling this way and I > > > am not in favor of it. > > > > > > If all the problems can be worked out then I will be quiet, but so far > > > I am not satisfied. > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron van Bruchem" > > > <ron@s...> wrote: > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > > > > > Of course Rr is then counted as 1 move. > > > > We asked our expert Jaap for advice on this subject. Maybe he can > > > explain why this is the case? > > > > > > > > I tried it personally with increasing numbers of moves (2, 3, 4 et > > > cetera) and indeed the scrambles look the same. > > > > With inner slice moves, the corners are not separated from the other > > > inner slices and the opposite outer slice. With double slice moves, > > > the corner is not separated from the connecting inner slice, but it is > > > from all other slices. With 40 (4x4x4) and 60 (5x5x5) mixed outer and > > > double moves the chances are high that all pieces are separated. > > > > But I am no expert. :-) > > > > > > > > Btw. the 40 and 60 moves are arbitrary. We did a rough estimate of > > > the maximum depth of these puzzles, also with help from Jaap. > > > > > > > > Have fun, > > > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yeah but this new scrambling system can generate a two move effect: (Rr) R' which is exactly equivalent to r by itself. So if I do (r) on my cube I've now done two moves right? By this new standard yes. Now what happens if that same sort of cancellation happens 3-4 times in one scrambling alg? Or say I get two cancellations of that type and one of the double turn type (Ff) (Bb) = (Ff)2 and a rotation. So you can, by cancellations, make a 40 move scrambling alg that in actuality only scrambles the cube say 35 moves. I don't think that is acceptable. And yes these problems can be corrected if the scrambling program is smart enough to overcome that. But all we heard was (paraphrased) "there is a new scrambling system that we are implementing + some minor details" I would just like to hear the rest of the details, as I don't accept the new system just based on what I've heard so far. Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > How is this beef any different than any other scrambling program? You > can currently get R r from any program, and that counts as two moves. > You're just trading which set of moves counts as two, and which as > one. The only real difference here is for ease of scrambling. > > -Mike Bennett

>Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 is quite hard, especially for novice >scramblers with the inner slice moves (lrfbud). I agree with Rr turn is much easier than r. But I don't think this is the main problem of scrambling big cubes. We had made a lot of mistakes in Kyoto contest although scramblers were experienced speedcubers. As I posted previously, main problem is there were no way to confirm until scrambler finishs 40 or 60 moves. This is quite long. For 3x3x3, a lot of people can solve it in 30 sec, so the competition shouldn't delay but for big cubes there are not many people who can solve fast and don't compete. One mistake makes huge delay. If the scrambled condition is not confirmed as same for everybody, I doubt the fairness of competition. I strongly recommend to use of JAVA cube and check every step. In this way, even novice scramblers can complete their job. I also like it. How the organizer are going to check the status of cubes at world championship? In national competitions, everyone must use same color scheme. But in world championship, there will be a lot of variations. It is difficult to gualantee the same randomized situation. It is also dificult to fix the misrandomized cube in different color scheme especially 4x4 because it doesn't have fixed center. If we use JAVA cube, we can easily change the color scheme for each competitor and also for each scrambler. And probably we will not need to argue single slice move or double slice move. Masayuki Akimoto

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, makimoto2000us <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > In national competitions, everyone must use same color scheme. Really? Stefan

>> In national competitions, everyone must use same color scheme. >Really? Yes, at least in Japan. But I don't know in other countries. If you guys didn't have any troubles although there were several color schemed cubes, I just praise the quality of organization team. I don't think everyone can organize such a great team. Stefan, I want to hear from you, the master of Revenger and Profesor Player, about usage of them for scrambling, not about color scheme.

Hey all, I already do this anyway when scrambling a 4x4 or 5x5, but perhpaps we can write a scrambling program that does this automatically, making scrambling easier for novice scramblers. Here is a 4x4 scrambling alg and how I execute it. Alg: D2 d R' d' B D2 R' D f2 U' L b2 u2 d' R u B R' F2 d l d2 L2 R' d2 D' l' U' l d2 b B U2 D B2 d2 r' F l' D2 How I execute it: (Dd) D R' (Dd)' D B D2 R' D (Ff)2 F2 U' L (Bb)2 B2 (Uu)2 U2 (Dd)' D R (Uu) U' B R' F2 (Dd) D' (Ll) L' (Dd)2 D2 L2 R' (Dd)2 D (Ll)' L U' (Ll) L' (Dd)2 D2 (Bb) U2 D B2 (Dd)2 D2 (Rr)' R F (Ll)' L D2 These algs are the same, but again the below one is in the notation for the new standard. In the new notation it is 57 moves, which is longer but by the arguments of those in favor of the new system a scrambler that outputs a regular scramble in this new notation is easy to read, as it uses the notation being proposed as easy to read. Maybe we could just have scrambling programs output the scrambles in this notation, so that novice scrambles would know the more efficient way to scramble these cases. Also I agree with Masayuki that pictures during the scrambling process may help to catch mistakes, since that would take a lot longer to solve on a larger cube, particularly since most of the fast solvers will be on stage competing. Chris

Hi Ron! The maximum depth is not really the issue. What is more interesting is to see a comparison of a collection of random scrambles for various scramble lengths vs optimum lenght of solve. Sadly this is not possible to do with the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. Has anyone done it for 3x3x3 yet? Or is the 25 also a random number? I know about the discussion on gods algorithm and that maybe 20 is the 3x3x3 cube diameter. Im not really troubled by the new way to scramble using double outer layer turns. I'm very confident that 40/60 moves is far more than necessary and if the real scramble length should turn out to be a few moves shorter for some scrambles it won't be a problem. I still like to see the analysis that has been done. And i think Chris (Hardwick) and me still would be relieved if the scrambling program was made quite clever wrt move avoiding cancellations for this new way of doing it :-) Cheers! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron van Bruchem" <ron@s...> wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Of course Rr is then counted as 1 move. > We asked our expert Jaap for advice on this subject. Maybe he can explain why this is the case? > > I tried it personally with increasing numbers of moves (2, 3, 4 et cetera) and indeed the scrambles look the same. > With inner slice moves, the corners are not separated from the other inner slices and the opposite outer slice. With double slice moves, the corner is not separated from the connecting inner slice, but it is from all other slices. With 40 (4x4x4) and 60 (5x5x5) mixed outer and double moves the chances are high that all pieces are separated. > But I am no expert. :-) > > Btw. the 40 and 60 moves are arbitrary. We did a rough estimate of the maximum depth of these puzzles, also with help from Jaap. > > Have fun, > > Ron > ----- Original Message ----- > From: cmhardw > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 11:02 PM > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier > > > What methods were used to determine that these scrambles were good enough? > > Does it reach the same depth as scrambling with only inner slice moves? > > I mean intuitively this seems like it should still create good > scrambles (using double turns), but are double turns counted as one or > two moves? This makes a difference. > > If you do (Rr) is that doing 1 or 2 moves for a competition scramble? > if you count it as 1 then what happens if the scramble generates r R > as two single turns, would that also be counted as one move? > > If you count it as two moves, what would a scamble look like that > generates all double turn and no inner slice turn scrambles? Maybe > most of them are still veyr well scrambled, but is there a large > subset of cases where the cube is very easily setup. Do we know about > the depth of 40 turns using no inner slice turns, only double turns? > > I would like to see some more clarification of this personally. I > think just saying it seems ok is not rigorous enough. > > I think that double turns (counted as 1 move) should make scrambling > easier and should still provide good scrambles. However, this brings > up the issue of whether the scramble generates (Rr) or r R so it can > be either 1 or 2 moves. > > Can you please clarify this decision more Ron? I'm skeptical of this > change unless it is quantified or at least backed up with some arguments. > > Thanks, > Chris > > P.S. I know you guys scramble lots of cubes for competitions in a > short time, and I agree that would get old VERY quickly. But do you > use shortcuts to simplify moves. > > For example, from this scramble from JNetcube you can simplify some moves: > D2 b d2 U b u' b f u2 B' R2 r d' F2 U' B2 u2 l d L2 d2 D2 b f2 u2 F2 > D2 l' D f2 R2 D2 f' B' R' b2 L2 R F B' > > [B' R2 r d'] can simplify to [B' (Rr) R (Dd)' D] > [b f2] can simplify to [(F' f' b) (F' f') F2] > > things like that in scrambles make the scrambling a bit easier. I'm > sure you guys already do this to some extent, but I wanted to ask. > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <ron@s...> wrote: > > Fellow cubers, > > > > Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 is quite hard, especially for novice > > scramblers with the inner slice moves (lrfbud). Therefore we > > investigated some options, and found out that the inner slice moves > > (lrfbud) do not result in better scrambles than double slice moves > > (Ll Rr Ff Bb Uu Dd). > > > > Because the latter moves are easier to execute we decided to change > > the scrambling program to use a mix of normal moves LRFBUD and > > double slice moves Ll Rr Ff Bb Uu Dd. > > > > Jaap was as kind as to change his programs. Just try the Multi Slice > > checkbox in the cube scrambling program. > > > > We are open for feedback on the WCA forum. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ron > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

actually, i think i have a book very much similar to it... not that ive ever read it or anything On 9/15/05, Chris Hunt <huntca@...> wrote: > Ha. > > -Chris > > On 9/15/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@...> wrote: > > > > Looking closely at the cube, I get the feeling this solution book must > > be pretty bad ;-) > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5998515764 > > > > Cheers! > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

Hi folks, Out of curiousity I looked at the new timer at rubiks.com . It looks interesting, dimensions 30 x 25 x 6 cm (approximately a foot wide) with a LCD display. First of all let me say that the original timers at WC2003 and U.S. Cube-a-thons used a timer that had used a similar system to the rubiks.com timer. In Canada at the regional contests the judges used analog stopwatches and had a photo sensor timer at the finals. So this type was used at many contest locations before. At WC2003 with the Stackmat I saw some contestants dropping the cube and slapping down their hands and sometimes the cube ended up on the floor. Probably the times are slightly slower with the Stackmat timer. But since the times have improved so much since 1982 it hardly matters. I think that either timer can be used. One thing for sure the 7 segment LED display was easy to see and record on film. If the sponsors want to use a particular timer then I suppose that is the timer that will be used. Personally I prefer the photo-sensor timer since you don't have to lay your hands down at the end but I could live with either type. When I'm timing myself with a stopwatch I have to hit a button to start the timer so the idea of some device that automatically starts the timer when you pick it up is appealing. I'm sure inexpensive do-it-yourself timing kits will appear eventually. Mark

Sorry, that should have read "WC1982". > > First of all let me say that the original timers > at WC2003 and U.S. Cube-a-thons used a timer that > >

The two metrics are still equivalent. In the current metric, a scramble can generate R r, which currently counts as two moves, but would only count as one in the new metric. This is equivalent to a new version scramble containing R r'. It would only count as r' in the present metric. Your issue that it is possible to have a 40 move scramble that cancels 5 moves is valid, but it's the same system we use now. If we use the other metric, my scramble I just generated has two cancellations like I mentioned above. It's even possible to get (l'r) in scrambles now, which are really just an M. Two turns make one just as easily now. I really don't understand what you think is so different with the second metric. Even so, if it becomes apparent there is a problem, I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to alter the code so that the problem cases wouldn't be able to appear next to eachother, such as f2b2, Rr', and the like. -Mike Bennett --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Yeah but this new scrambling system can generate a two move effect: > > (Rr) R' which is exactly equivalent to r by itself. > > So if I do (r) on my cube I've now done two moves right? By this new > standard yes. > > Now what happens if that same sort of cancellation happens 3-4 times > in one scrambling alg? Or say I get two cancellations of that type > and one of the double turn type (Ff) (Bb) = (Ff)2 and a rotation. > > So you can, by cancellations, make a 40 move scrambling alg that in > actuality only scrambles the cube say 35 moves. > > I don't think that is acceptable. And yes these problems can be > corrected if the scrambling program is smart enough to overcome that. > But all we heard was (paraphrased) "there is a new scrambling system > that we are implementing + some minor details" > > I would just like to hear the rest of the details, as I don't accept > the new system just based on what I've heard so far. > > Chris > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > How is this beef any different than any other scrambling program? You > > can currently get R r from any program, and that counts as two moves. > > You're just trading which set of moves counts as two, and which as > > one. The only real difference here is for ease of scrambling. > > > > -Mike Bennett

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, makimoto2000us <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > >> In national competitions, everyone must use same color scheme. > >Really? > Yes, at least in Japan. That must've been added then. The WCA doesn't request it. > But I don't know in other countries. > If you guys didn't have any troubles although there were several color > schemed cubes, I just praise the quality of organization team. Since I'm always participating in almost all events I'm seldomly scrambling so I don't know how much scrambles are really checked. Personally I think the cubes don't need to be scrambled the same way as long as they're all well-scrambled. This also means that I think as long as you generally follow the scramble algorithm it's ok to make a few mistakes... the only valid excuses I see to request same scrambles is less paper if they're printed, and that outsiders might not understand same scrambles aren't necessary. > Stefan, I want to hear from you, the master of Revenger and Profesor > Player, about usage of them for scrambling, not about color scheme. Please don't call me master just because I use somebody elses great applet ;-) Not sure about myself. I think I'd be slowed down using the applet, but I haven't tried it. Like many of us I'm also quite used to reading/executing scrambles so I don't think I can estimate well what troubles beginners might have. I think if the equipment can be provided it might be a good idea to use the applets. Oh, do you let the full scramble run automatically or turn by turn with one click for each? I know something else has slowed me down: treating lower case letters of ordinary scrambles as double-layer turns. I got confused all the time and it took longer than doing them as inner layer turns (which take less actual turning action). But it could be just the syntax. Printing double layer turns as (Rr) etc might change it. Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Mark Longridge <cubeman@c...> wrote: > > At WC2003 with the Stackmat I saw some contestants dropping > the cube and slapping down their hands and sometimes the > cube ended up on the floor. How many of them had known the stackmat beforehand? I think this has changed by now. > Personally I prefer the > photo-sensor timer since you don't have to lay your > hands down at the end but I could live with either > type. Have you tried the stackmat, too? > When I'm timing myself with a stopwatch I have to > hit a button to start the timer so the idea of some > device that automatically starts the timer when you > pick it up is appealing. Yeah, stopwatches do suck. Sometimes I lose 2-3 seconds (!) because I'm too stupid to correctly push the button after the solve. This is no problem with the stackmat. I only still use a stopwatch because I don't take my stackmat with me all the time, and sometimes at home because I'm a lazy bastard who can't keep the table/bed/floor tidied up enough to put the stackmat there ;-) Cheers! Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Yes it has. Alex Datuin, uh... Caltech Spring Competition 2004. What happened? ~ Bob

It may be a foolish question for you experts. But, I lke to know........... Is there any relation between a particular OLL and a particular PLL ? i.e, For a OLL, what is the probablity of PLL that follows the OLL? All the possible 21 PLL or very few ? John Louis --------------------------------- Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't know... I was judging and suddenly people in the audience started telling me "the timer stopped" so I looked and the timer had indeed stopped. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 15, 2005, at 8:42 PM, Bob Burton wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > wrote: >> Yes it has. Alex Datuin, uh... Caltech Spring Competition 2004. > > What happened? > > ~ Bob > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

There shouldn't be. I think the probability of PLL cases are independent of what OLL case you have. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 15, 2005, at 8:44 PM, JohnLouis Louis wrote: > It may be a foolish question for you experts. But, I lke to > know........... > Is there any relation between a particular OLL and a particular PLL ? > i.e, For a OLL, what is the probablity of PLL that follows the OLL? > All the possible 21 PLL or very few ? > > John Louis > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Tyson is right. Just think about this. When you reach the LL, you could have any of the possible LL positions (provided that you didn't do anything during the F2L to change the LL). Ignore the fact that pieces aren't oriented correctly. When you do an OLL, any OLL, the most it will do is swap some pieces or rotate some pieces around the LL. Since you didn't pay attention to the permutation before you did the OLL, those swaps and rotations won't get it closer to any certain PLL. It will just 'mix' up the permutation some more. I don't think that came out right at all, but it made sense in my head. Anyway the point is, OLL obvious effects the PLL but there is no relation between a certain OLL and PLL. -Chris On 9/15/05, Tyson Mao <tmao@...> wrote: > > There shouldn't be. I think the probability of PLL cases are > independent of what OLL case you have. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 15, 2005, at 8:44 PM, JohnLouis Louis wrote: > > > It may be a foolish question for you experts. But, I lke to > > know........... > > Is there any relation between a particular OLL and a particular PLL ? > > i.e, For a OLL, what is the probablity of PLL that follows the OLL? > > All the possible 21 PLL or very few ? > > > > John Louis > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Per, I think 25 for 3x3x3 was chosen because: = it is a nice number :-) = it is more than the expected maximum depth of 21 = it was used for the WC 1982 We could also use a program that puts the pieces in randomly and then generate a CubeExplorer solution. There is nothing like that for 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. One day we will know... :-) Have fun, Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: Per Kristen Fredlund To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 4:11 AM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier Hi Ron! The maximum depth is not really the issue. What is more interesting is to see a comparison of a collection of random scrambles for various scramble lengths vs optimum lenght of solve. Sadly this is not possible to do with the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. Has anyone done it for 3x3x3 yet? Or is the 25 also a random number? I know about the discussion on gods algorithm and that maybe 20 is the 3x3x3 cube diameter. Im not really troubled by the new way to scramble using double outer layer turns. I'm very confident that 40/60 moves is far more than necessary and if the real scramble length should turn out to be a few moves shorter for some scrambles it won't be a problem. I still like to see the analysis that has been done. And i think Chris (Hardwick) and me still would be relieved if the scrambling program was made quite clever wrt move avoiding cancellations for this new way of doing it :-) Cheers! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron van Bruchem" <ron@s...> wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Of course Rr is then counted as 1 move. > We asked our expert Jaap for advice on this subject. Maybe he can explain why this is the case? > > I tried it personally with increasing numbers of moves (2, 3, 4 et cetera) and indeed the scrambles look the same. > With inner slice moves, the corners are not separated from the other inner slices and the opposite outer slice. With double slice moves, the corner is not separated from the connecting inner slice, but it is from all other slices. With 40 (4x4x4) and 60 (5x5x5) mixed outer and double moves the chances are high that all pieces are separated. > But I am no expert. :-) > > Btw. the 40 and 60 moves are arbitrary. We did a rough estimate of the maximum depth of these puzzles, also with help from Jaap. > > Have fun, > > Ron > ----- Original Message ----- > From: cmhardw > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 11:02 PM > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier > > > What methods were used to determine that these scrambles were good enough? > > Does it reach the same depth as scrambling with only inner slice moves? > > I mean intuitively this seems like it should still create good > scrambles (using double turns), but are double turns counted as one or > two moves? This makes a difference. > > If you do (Rr) is that doing 1 or 2 moves for a competition scramble? > if you count it as 1 then what happens if the scramble generates r R > as two single turns, would that also be counted as one move? > > If you count it as two moves, what would a scamble look like that > generates all double turn and no inner slice turn scrambles? Maybe > most of them are still veyr well scrambled, but is there a large > subset of cases where the cube is very easily setup. Do we know about > the depth of 40 turns using no inner slice turns, only double turns? > > I would like to see some more clarification of this personally. I > think just saying it seems ok is not rigorous enough. > > I think that double turns (counted as 1 move) should make scrambling > easier and should still provide good scrambles. However, this brings > up the issue of whether the scramble generates (Rr) or r R so it can > be either 1 or 2 moves. > > Can you please clarify this decision more Ron? I'm skeptical of this > change unless it is quantified or at least backed up with some arguments. > > Thanks, > Chris > > P.S. I know you guys scramble lots of cubes for competitions in a > short time, and I agree that would get old VERY quickly. But do you > use shortcuts to simplify moves. > > For example, from this scramble from JNetcube you can simplify some moves: > D2 b d2 U b u' b f u2 B' R2 r d' F2 U' B2 u2 l d L2 d2 D2 b f2 u2 F2 > D2 l' D f2 R2 D2 f' B' R' b2 L2 R F B' > > [B' R2 r d'] can simplify to [B' (Rr) R (Dd)' D] > [b f2] can simplify to [(F' f' b) (F' f') F2] > > things like that in scrambles make the scrambling a bit easier. I'm > sure you guys already do this to some extent, but I wanted to ask. > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <ron@s...> wrote: > > Fellow cubers, > > > > Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 is quite hard, especially for novice > > scramblers with the inner slice moves (lrfbud). Therefore we > > investigated some options, and found out that the inner slice moves > > (lrfbud) do not result in better scrambles than double slice moves > > (Ll Rr Ff Bb Uu Dd). > > > > Because the latter moves are easier to execute we decided to change > > the scrambling program to use a mix of normal moves LRFBUD and > > double slice moves Ll Rr Ff Bb Uu Dd. > > > > Jaap was as kind as to change his programs. Just try the Multi Slice > > checkbox in the cube scrambling program. > > > > We are open for feedback on the WCA forum. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ron > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think that's double extended cross, and I do use it sometimes, I converted to xcross from petrus but sometimes a double xcross is easy so I do it that way. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "jim_cuber" <jim_cuber@y...> wrote: > Has anybody thought of using the 2x2x3 block used in the Petrus method > as a beginning to Fridrich? The thought crossed my mind and I figured > it my help if the 2x2x3 could be done quickly because it would knock > off two f2l pairs. Just a thought :]

Hi Chris, Are you talking to your other Chris? :-) Please test the scrambler. It answers all your questions. Or check out the code of the scrambler in the page source. This weekend we will use the old scrambling system. So we have time to think. Have fun, Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: cmhardw To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 2:54 AM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier Yeah but this new scrambling system can generate a two move effect: (Rr) R' which is exactly equivalent to r by itself. So if I do (r) on my cube I've now done two moves right? By this new standard yes. Now what happens if that same sort of cancellation happens 3-4 times in one scrambling alg? Or say I get two cancellations of that type and one of the double turn type (Ff) (Bb) = (Ff)2 and a rotation. So you can, by cancellations, make a 40 move scrambling alg that in actuality only scrambles the cube say 35 moves. I don't think that is acceptable. And yes these problems can be corrected if the scrambling program is smart enough to overcome that. But all we heard was (paraphrased) "there is a new scrambling system that we are implementing + some minor details" I would just like to hear the rest of the details, as I don't accept the new system just based on what I've heard so far. Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > How is this beef any different than any other scrambling program? You > can currently get R r from any program, and that counts as two moves. > You're just trading which set of moves counts as two, and which as > one. The only real difference here is for ease of scrambling. > > -Mike Bennett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Crap. I've been having to use my email to send off any of my achievments because I use Firefox and the form tries to use IE. This hasn't really been a problem, until tonight, when I realized as I submitted my last one that I don't think I put the correct records heading. I meant for it to go under '2x2x2+3x3x3+4x4x4 cubes' but I think just '3x3x3' was left from when I pasted the bulk of the email. So, Ron, if you read this, you'll know what happened. Either that, or I'll really have to work on my 2:12 3x3 time... -Mike Bennett

Don't you just 'translate' the colors in your head if you have a cube with a different color scheme? Imagine how thrilled I was every time I had to scramble Doug Li's cube. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 15, 2005, at 6:07 PM, makimoto2000us wrote: >> Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 is quite hard, especially for novice >> scramblers with the inner slice moves (lrfbud). > > I agree with Rr turn is much easier than r. > > But I don't think this is the main problem of scrambling big cubes. > > We had made a lot of mistakes in Kyoto contest although scramblers were > experienced speedcubers. > > As I posted previously, main problem is there were no way to confirm > until scrambler finishs 40 or 60 moves. > This is quite long. > > For 3x3x3, a lot of people can solve it in 30 sec, so the competition > shouldn't delay but for big cubes there are not many people who can > solve fast and don't compete. One mistake makes huge delay. > If the scrambled condition is not confirmed as same for everybody, I > doubt the fairness of competition. > > I strongly recommend to use of JAVA cube and check every step. > In this way, even novice scramblers can complete their job. > I also like it. > > How the organizer are going to check the status of cubes at world > championship? > In national competitions, everyone must use same color scheme. > But in world championship, there will be a lot of variations. > It is difficult to gualantee the same randomized situation. > It is also dificult to fix the misrandomized cube in different color > scheme especially 4x4 because it doesn't have fixed center. > > If we use JAVA cube, we can easily change the color scheme for each > competitor and also for each scrambler. > And probably we will not need to argue single slice move or double > slice move. > > Masayuki Akimoto > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "randmthght" <wombat@r. > ..> wrote: > > > > Current rubik by sevenstown I beleive. any suggetions :-) > > Ok. I personally prefer to not use spray and to disassemble my puzzles > for cleaning and lubing. > > Peter Greenwood a while ago made two nice pages about how to > disassemble and assemble a rubiks.com 5x5: > http://www.geocities.com/pjgat09/misc.html > > Cheers! > Stefan Thanks so much. I looked all over and never found it. this is tremendous(sp)help. peace chris www.rookrocks.com

Does anyone here to any other types of exercise to improve their cubing? I'll usually go out for a 6 to 10 mile run, hit the weights for about 45 minutes alternating upper and lower body days throughout the week, and then do 4 intervals of 400 meters at 70 seconds. Except on Saturdays, and I'll mainly do resistance work. They've got these excellent belts you wear like a backpack and you drag wooden blocks behind you. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology

I actually saw more results from eating healthier. I noticed that when I stopped eating partially hydrogenated oils, my averaged dropped from 19 seconds to 17! It was amazing. I felt better, I thought better, and i cubed better. However, cubing does have a physical aspect to it, so in order to maintain high finger dexterity, I powerball for up to 2 and a half hours aday at 30-60 minute intervals (powerballs.com). This rigorous excercise not only makes my fingers stronger, but also my forearm. I work out every other day to improve the upper body aspects of cubing, including biceps ( for picking up and holding the cube) and abs, to maintain a proper posture. I know macky works out at Golds for 15-18 hours a week. What about the rest of you cubers out there? --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Does anyone here to any other types of exercise to improve their > cubing? I'll usually go out for a 6 to 10 mile run, hit the weights > for about 45 minutes alternating upper and lower body days throughout > the week, and then do 4 intervals of 400 meters at 70 seconds. Except > on Saturdays, and I'll mainly do resistance work. They've got these > excellent belts you wear like a backpack and you drag wooden blocks > behind you. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology

woot. you've got mail. keep on posting here I am trying to get this going basically in north west oklahoma. Peace Chris www.rookrocks.com --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hayes" <swedishlf@h...> wrote: > I AM I AM! > > Not near Tulsa, though. I'm at OU in Norman for the time being. > Though I do vaguely recall perhaps talking with you when I lived in > Edmond. I'd definately like to get together sometime (my girlfriend > and I are looking to visit your aquarium up there, when we do I'll be > sure to let you know). > I also know 3-4 cubers down here in Norman (including one I had the > pleasure of meeting just today) who might be interested in getting > together some time for some good old fashioned cube madness. Finding > good ground between Tulsa and Norman shouldn't be too hard, and I'd > definately be up for it. Feel free to e-mail me off-group at > swedishlf at hotmail dot com . > > Cheers, > Daniel > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "randmthght" > <wombat@r...> wrote: > > I have meet one person long ago on this board that was going to > > school. I am from Tulsa and was wondering if their are any cubers in > > and about Tulsa. I want to start meetings or get togethers of some > > sort. I don't care how fast a person is really so long as they enjoy > > cubing. Personally I only average sub 45 on my 3by so I am not that > fast. > > > > Any takers. Or does anyone know some people from this area

that is a nice timer. I like that it isn't giving scrambles cause even on rubiks.dk i scramble my own. I have a site with a php forum DB. would that be enough to install this on my site?? --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Marco Garbelini <garbelini@g...> wrote: > I'm developing a new one for people who have websites with php and mysql. I > intend to release the first version shortly. > > Check out the stats page: > http://www.garbelini.net/cubetimer/stats.php > or the timer itself (firefox only for now, I'm making it Internet Explorer > friendly) > http://www.garbelini.net/cubetimer/ > > Marco > > > On 9/14/05, randmthght <wombat@r...> wrote: > > > > I know at one point two different groups were making a new timer. > > > > Has anyone heard anything of late. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Very impressive Tyson :) I workout 6 times a week and eat 4 meals a day. I basically lift for mass so I can get the ladies. My six workouts are as follows: 1. Weight Lifting - Biceps and Back 2. Weight Lifting - Chest and Triceps 3. Jumprope for 60 minutes + abdominals for 20 4. Weight Lifting - Shoulders 5. Weight Lifting - Legs 6. Jumprope for 60 minutes + abdominals for 20 I find that it's especially fun to solve the cube after a good biceps workout because my forearms are so dead I can barely lift the cube. -Chris On 9/15/05, Tyson Mao <tmao@...> wrote: > > Does anyone here to any other types of exercise to improve their > cubing? I'll usually go out for a 6 to 10 mile run, hit the weights > for about 45 minutes alternating upper and lower body days throughout > the week, and then do 4 intervals of 400 meters at 70 seconds. Except > on Saturdays, and I'll mainly do resistance work. They've got these > excellent belts you wear like a backpack and you drag wooden blocks > behind you. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yeah, I use a computer program that tracks mouse gestures. It tells you to move your mouse a certain number of pixels along with an arrow indicating the direction. It really helps my accuracy on the cube. It's not the hand movements that help me, but it's the concept of identifying. My average dropped from 29.88 to 24.78 with this program. Also, eating healthier DOES help! It cut a few milliseconds off my average as well. -Sunil --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "goodxy2002" <goodxy2002@y...> wrote: > I actually saw more results from eating healthier. I noticed that when > I stopped eating partially hydrogenated oils, my averaged dropped from > 19 seconds to 17! It was amazing. I felt better, I thought better, and > i cubed better. However, cubing does have a physical aspect to it, so > in order to maintain high finger dexterity, I powerball for up to 2 > and a half hours aday at 30-60 minute intervals (powerballs.com). This > rigorous excercise not only makes my fingers stronger, but also my > forearm. I work out every other day to improve the upper body aspects > of cubing, including biceps ( for picking up and holding the cube) and > abs, to maintain a proper posture. I know macky works out at Golds for > 15-18 hours a week. What about the rest of you cubers out there? > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > wrote: > > Does anyone here to any other types of exercise to improve their > > cubing? I'll usually go out for a 6 to 10 mile run, hit the weights > > for about 45 minutes alternating upper and lower body days throughout > > the week, and then do 4 intervals of 400 meters at 70 seconds. Except > > on Saturdays, and I'll mainly do resistance work. They've got these > > excellent belts you wear like a backpack and you drag wooden blocks > > behind you. > > > > Tyson Mao > > MSC #631 > > California Institute of Technology

For all practical purposes, yeah. Theoretically, it's possible to influence the PLL. There are several algorithms for each OLL. Once in a good long while, you MIGHT be able to identify certain color patterns for which there is a difference among the algorithms. An example would be the 'H' OLL where all the corners are OK but 2 opposite edges are flipped. The Fridrich algorithm will rotate 3 of the edges; the well known 'Cubist' maneuver will leave them alone. If you're lucky enough to have all corners in place, and the edges are in just the right positions, you can instantly determine which of the two will solve the cube without going to PLL. This is a poor example, because the Fridrich algorithm plus the 3- edge swap might actually take less time to execute than the cubist move! But I'm sure there are others. Again, it would be VERY rare that you could do this, perhaps less rare if you are used to ZB and extreme stuff like that. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hunt <huntca@g...> wrote: > Tyson is right. Just think about this. When you reach the LL, you could have > any of the possible LL positions (provided that you didn't do anything > during the F2L to change the LL). > > Ignore the fact that pieces aren't oriented correctly. When you do an OLL, > any OLL, the most it will do is swap some pieces or rotate some pieces > around the LL. Since you didn't pay attention to the permutation before you > did the OLL, those swaps and rotations won't get it closer to any certain > PLL. It will just 'mix' up the permutation some more. > > I don't think that came out right at all, but it made sense in my head. > Anyway the point is, OLL obvious effects the PLL but there is no relation > between a certain OLL and PLL. > > -Chris > > On 9/15/05, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > > > > There shouldn't be. I think the probability of PLL cases are > > independent of what OLL case you have. > > > > Tyson Mao > > MSC #631 > > California Institute of Technology > > > > On Sep 15, 2005, at 8:44 PM, JohnLouis Louis wrote: > > > > > It may be a foolish question for you experts. But, I lke to > > > know........... > > > Is there any relation between a particular OLL and a particular PLL ? > > > i.e, For a OLL, what is the probablity of PLL that follows the OLL? > > > All the possible 21 PLL or very few ? > > > > > > John Louis > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner now. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you have the rights to upload php code and create database tables then yes. All the problems stated above are solved. I'm now working on some basic documentation, licencing, and instalation procedures. On 9/16/05, randmthght <wombat@...> wrote: > > that is a nice timer. I like that it isn't giving scrambles cause even > on rubiks.dk <http://rubiks.dk> i scramble my own. > > I have a site with a php forum DB. would that be enough to install > this on my site?? > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Marco Garbelini > <garbelini@g...> wrote: > > I'm developing a new one for people who have websites with php and > mysql. I > > intend to release the first version shortly. > > > > Check out the stats page: > > http://www.garbelini.net/cubetimer/stats.php > > or the timer itself (firefox only for now, I'm making it Internet > Explorer > > friendly) > > http://www.garbelini.net/cubetimer/ > > > > Marco > > > > > > On 9/14/05, randmthght <wombat@r...> wrote: > > > > > > I know at one point two different groups were making a new timer. > > > > > > Has anyone heard anything of late. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For example, speedcubing.com algs T3 and N12 are good ones to start with. The algs to solve these, and their mirrors both solve different corner cases. For T3, just do y2, and perform it from the other side. It only works for two of the 6 possible corner placements, but it's very helpful when you can use it. -Mike Bennett --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "kwickykanny" <kwickykanny@e...> wrote: > For all practical purposes, yeah. Theoretically, it's possible to > influence the PLL. There are several algorithms for each OLL. Once > in a good long while, you MIGHT be able to identify certain color > patterns for which there is a difference among the algorithms. > > An example would be the 'H' OLL where all the corners are OK but 2 > opposite edges are flipped. The Fridrich algorithm will rotate 3 of > the edges; the well known 'Cubist' maneuver will leave them alone. > If you're lucky enough to have all corners in place, and the edges > are in just the right positions, you can instantly determine which of > the two will solve the cube without going to PLL. > > This is a poor example, because the Fridrich algorithm plus the 3- > edge swap might actually take less time to execute than the cubist > move! But I'm sure there are others. Again, it would be VERY rare > that you could do this, perhaps less rare if you are used to ZB and > extreme stuff like that. > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hunt > <huntca@g...> wrote: > > Tyson is right. Just think about this. When you reach the LL, you > could have > > any of the possible LL positions (provided that you didn't do > anything > > during the F2L to change the LL). > > > > Ignore the fact that pieces aren't oriented correctly. When you do > an OLL, > > any OLL, the most it will do is swap some pieces or rotate some > pieces > > around the LL. Since you didn't pay attention to the permutation > before you > > did the OLL, those swaps and rotations won't get it closer to any > certain > > PLL. It will just 'mix' up the permutation some more. > > > > I don't think that came out right at all, but it made sense in my > head. > > Anyway the point is, OLL obvious effects the PLL but there is no > relation > > between a certain OLL and PLL. > > > > -Chris > > > > On 9/15/05, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > > > > > > There shouldn't be. I think the probability of PLL cases are > > > independent of what OLL case you have. > > > > > > Tyson Mao > > > MSC #631 > > > California Institute of Technology > > > > > > On Sep 15, 2005, at 8:44 PM, JohnLouis Louis wrote: > > > > > > > It may be a foolish question for you experts. But, I lke to > > > > know........... > > > > Is there any relation between a particular OLL and a particular > PLL ? > > > > i.e, For a OLL, what is the probablity of PLL that follows the > OLL? > > > > All the possible 21 PLL or very few ? > > > > > > > > John Louis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner now. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Let me just weigh in here a little. Ideally, scrambles are long enough that every possible position has a nearly equal probability of occurring. There is no way to be totally sure of how long this should be, even on a 3x3x3. All we can do is take rough guesstimates. Here is a simplified outline for the 3x3x3 cube. The first move of the scramble sequence can be any one of 18 moves. For the second and each subsequent move, there are 15 choices (we ignore LR=RL for now). This means that there are 18*15^(n-1) scrambles of length n. Of course we want this number to exceed the total number of positions (43*10^18), so n must be greater than 17.5. Clearly this is an underestimate, because there are many scramble sequences for each position. For the 3x3x3 we use 25 moves, for the reasons Ron has stated. I think that this number is still a bit low, since I believe that the diameter (i.e. longest optimal solution length) is more likely to be 22-23 than 20. Therefore not all positions will be nearly equally likely, but in practice that doesn't matter - it will be scrambled enough that there is no shortcut to solving it. In the above, we ignored that LR=RL etc. If you take this into account, the results are not much different. You get much better estimates for the number of positions a few moves away from start, but the growth rate is so similar that the scramble length estimates are hardly changed (only 1 or 2 moves longer). Here is a table for all currently available cube sizes: 2x2x2 : 3.7*10^6 : 9* 6^(n-1) : 8.2 : 11 : 25 3x3x3 : 4.3*10^19 : 18*15^(n-1) : 17.5 : 23?: 25 4x4x4 : 7.4*10^45 : 27*24^(n-1) : 33.2 : ?? : 40 5x5x5 : 2.8*10^74 : 36*33^(n-1) : 49.0 : ?? : 60 It shows - the cube size - the number of positions - the approximate number of scrambles of length n - the length n for which #scrambles>#positions - God's Algorithm length - competition scramble length Clearly the 2x2x2 competition scramble length is a bit excessive (but easy enough to do in practice), but others seem reasonable. For practical reasons there is a smaller safety margin for the higher cubes (else we'd use about 50 and 70 moves) but it is long enough that there are not likely to be many blocks of pieces left together at the end of the scramble. Anyway, back to the matter at hand. Would such estimates differ if we use multi-slice moves instead? I think not. We still have the same number of moves to choose from at each step in the scramble, and there is still the same number of commutivity relations (such as RL=LR or rR=Rr). I find it interesting to speculate on whether you can use this to estimate the God's Algorithm lengths for 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. I would say they are possibly about 45 and 65 moves. Scramblers: http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/ Jaap's Puzzle Page: http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/puzzles/ Jaap

>Don't you just 'translate' the colors in your head if you have a cube >with a different color scheme? Imagine how thrilled I was every time I >had to scramble Doug Li's cube. Hi Tyson, Just for scrambling, it may not be so difficult. If you made mistake during scramble, you have to solve the cube in different color scheme once then scramble again from the beginning. I would suggest we need to establish a solid system that scramblers will not get thrilled. I partly agree with one mistake may not affect solving time. But who knows? It may affect. The solution can be a new world record. Hi Ron, Chris, and Jaaps, If the inner slice move is too difficult for novice scrambler, using double slice must be the way to go. I agree with Chris that reformatting the regular algorithms into the format avoiding from inner slice moves is better than just producing new double slice algorithms. This is my answer. It is a sad nature of stupid macro programmer. You can find a excel sheet in file section of this group. The algorithm in A2 cell is the algorithm which Chris (cmhardw) posted. Push buttom you will get the algorithms which is completely as same as Chris reformatted. This also produces the algorithms for Randelshofer's JAVA cube. I haven't tested on JAVA cube yet. But it should work theoretically. Now we don't need new randomization program. If you find bugs, I will fix. I hope this will make everyone happy. Masayuki

Well the problem here seems to be that putting the cube on the pad is stopping the timer and in stactmat the timer stops when the hands are placed on the pads. So instead of putting the cube on its pad why not put one hand on the pad instead? Then the time will start when the hand is taken up and will stop when we put our hands back on the pad, I think this will also solve the problems with other puzzles when the puzzle dosent leave the table. So we are then using it like a stackmat only but instead of pads we now have electronic detection which will be much more accurate. Dosent anyone see it better than the stackmat if used like this? Sachin. On 9/15/05, Bob Burton <bob@...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gustav Fredell > <gufr5747@s...> wrote: > > > Well... call me lazy that feels very labour intensive. It takes quite > > some time writing down say 50 solves and then entering them into a > > spreadsheet. And I won't even know my average until I do it. It seems > > convenient to have it built in, into the timer for home practicing. > > Yes, it is convenient, but in my opinion, not worth the extra $50. > For $50, I would rather insert the times onto my PC manually. Also, > did you see there is a $50 accessory package? If you want to load > times from your timer to a speadsheet on your PC, it is an ADDITIONAL > $50. $100 to have my times saved is not worth it. > > > I agree about that it probably would be a problem timing the magic. You > > should give it a try or two on the new timer, but there I put my money > > on the StackMat beforehand. This is a problem for me to as you might > > recognize me as the Swedish Champion in Rubiks Magic, with an awesome > > record average of 3.42 :D > > The problem with "giving it a try" is that I finish my solve on the > table. The puzzle would not be solved when I put it on the timer > because I would be mid-solution. For the master magic, for example, > almost the entire solution is on the mat. If it was required to do > the entire puzzle in the air, times would be ridiculously slow. > > ~ Bob > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

But the StackMat is designed to do what you mention here and it costs $50 less. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 16, 2005, at 1:54 AM, Sachin Shirwalkar wrote: > Well the problem here seems to be that putting the cube on the pad is > stopping the timer and in stactmat the timer stops when the hands are > placed on the pads. So instead of putting the cube on its pad why not > put one hand on the pad instead? Then the time will start when the > hand is taken up and will stop when we put our hands back on the pad, > I think this will also solve the problems with other puzzles when the > puzzle dosent leave the table. > > So we are then using it like a stackmat only but instead of pads we > now have electronic detection which will be much more accurate. > > Dosent anyone see it better than the stackmat if used like this? > > Sachin.

remember that the rubik's timer is not just a timer. but 50$ is much cost for the improvements it provides vs. stackmat... Alberto ----- Original Message ----- From: Tyson Mao To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Re: Rubik's Timer But the StackMat is designed to do what you mention here and it costs $50 less. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 16, 2005, at 1:54 AM, Sachin Shirwalkar wrote: > Well the problem here seems to be that putting the cube on the pad is > stopping the timer and in stactmat the timer stops when the hands are > placed on the pads. So instead of putting the cube on its pad why not > put one hand on the pad instead? Then the time will start when the > hand is taken up and will stop when we put our hands back on the pad, > I think this will also solve the problems with other puzzles when the > puzzle dosent leave the table. > > So we are then using it like a stackmat only but instead of pads we > now have electronic detection which will be much more accurate. > > Dosent anyone see it better than the stackmat if used like this? > > Sachin. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

All right, let's go over this again. Please identify the improvements the new timer provides over the StackMat in a competition setting. Improvements with the ability to keep track of averages and scrambles and statistics is not relevant to a competition. Furthermore, just download JNetCube. As for stopping the photocell with one hand, what about the other hand? Person makes the last turn of the cube with their left hand and they stop the photocell with their right hand. Okay, so you say they have to stop turning the cube before they stop the timer. What about a close call? There is no defined boundary. You can turn the cube after the timer has been stopped. What about telling people to stop the timer with the same hand the make the last move? Try this yourself and see how happy you are when your last move is a U' done with the left index finger. Your right hand is already free, so why can't it go and stop the timer? Because it's the rule, and so you have to make the exchange or drop the cube, and stop the timer with your left hand. If you want to pay $50 for those extra features, go ahead, but they are not relevant to a competition setting. If you are complaining about forcing people to buy StackMats so that they can practice, then you are misguided because the new timer is a lot more and it's better we 'force' people to buy a StackMat which is half the cost than to force people to buy a new timer but with this all being said, you can practice the methods of the StackMat without the StackMat. As nice as it would be, I don't have a 400 meter rubber track in my backyard. No, I practice running my 3 minute 55 second 1500 meters on the grass field. So please elucidate the $50's worth of improvement this timer provides. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology (If you wrote that message without reading the previous posts, that's really unfair to me for having to repeat myself so I'm expecting novel ideas.) On Sep 16, 2005, at 2:15 AM, Alberto Cuesta wrote: > remember that the rubik's timer is not just a timer. > but 50$ is much cost for the improvements it provides vs. stackmat... > > Alberto > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tyson Mao > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 11:04 AM > Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Re: Rubik's Timer > > > But the StackMat is designed to do what you mention here and it costs > $50 less. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 16, 2005, at 1:54 AM, Sachin Shirwalkar wrote: > >> Well the problem here seems to be that putting the cube on the pad is >> stopping the timer and in stactmat the timer stops when the hands are >> placed on the pads. So instead of putting the cube on its pad why not >> put one hand on the pad instead? Then the time will start when the >> hand is taken up and will stop when we put our hands back on the pad, >> I think this will also solve the problems with other puzzles when the >> puzzle dosent leave the table. >> >> So we are then using it like a stackmat only but instead of pads we >> now have electronic detection which will be much more accurate. >> >> Dosent anyone see it better than the stackmat if used like this? >> >> Sachin. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Honestly, yes, it could affect the world record, which is why for people like Frank Morris and Chris Hardwick, I am especially careful on the larger cubes. To help with this, you might want to scramble cubes yourself for Yuki Hayashi. A 5 minute 5x5x5 cuber is probably not setting any word records so you're better off focusing your energy on Yuki Hayashi. I know this sounds biased and unfair, but it's true. Cube competitions don't necessarily lack the manpower of volunteers, but they certainly lack the manpower of skilled volunteers. There is a difference between a volunteer who can judge and a volunteer who can scramble a 3x3x3 and a volunteer who can scramble a 3x3x3 very quickly and accurately. The reason for this is quite simple—the cubers are all competing. We have enough resources for the competitions to absolutely ensure that potential world record setters have their cubes scrambled precisely. We have varying degrees of resources to ensure precise big cube scrambles for everyone else. It can be done, but I don't see it as a priority. True, there is a moral dilemma here, but it's a minor one, and I mean, if it means no major delays in the competition, and that I don't pass out while hot bright lights bear down on me on a stage in the middle of Dallas, Texas (which I must say, I am not fond of), I think it's worth it. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology Which is why, Mr. Hsu, that you better not make me scramble your 5x5x5 and then decide not to solve it. Ever. :-P On Sep 16, 2005, at 1:33 AM, makimoto2000us wrote: > The solution can be a new world record.

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, _jaap <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Clearly the 2x2x2 competition scramble length is a bit excessive (but > easy enough to do in practice), but others seem reasonable. For > practical reasons there is a smaller safety margin for the higher > cubes (else we'd use about 50 and 70 moves) but it is long enough > that there are not likely to be many blocks of pieces left together > at the end of the scramble. Jaap, Have the (pairwise) correlations between pieces (of the same and different types) been checked for a few million random scrambles? Even though I suspect that shorter scrambles would eliminate these anyway, it would be reassuring if we could be certain that standard scrambles are adequate. It would be very easy to verify. Mike

i hope that there will be a 13 seconds average in an official competition just like Sebastein Felix and Jean Pons has in the Unofficial World Records, i hope they will accomplish such record. keep on cubing!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Okay fine. I accept that the improvements are not worth the 50$. So back to the stackmat now. (And yes i read all the posts that came before. I came up with a new idea of using this timer so thought i would post this, no offence intended) Sachin. P.S. Still if anyone wants to use this timer as a stackmat then buy two of these for both of the hands and then connect them in some way. Looks like a nice idea for a contraption :) On 9/16/05, Tyson Mao <tmao@...> wrote: > All right, let's go over this again. Please identify the improvements > the new timer provides over the StackMat in a competition setting. > Improvements with the ability to keep track of averages and scrambles > and statistics is not relevant to a competition. Furthermore, just > download JNetCube. > > As for stopping the photocell with one hand, what about the other hand? > Person makes the last turn of the cube with their left hand and they > stop the photocell with their right hand. Okay, so you say they have > to stop turning the cube before they stop the timer. What about a > close call? There is no defined boundary. You can turn the cube after > the timer has been stopped. > > What about telling people to stop the timer with the same hand the make > the last move? Try this yourself and see how happy you are when your > last move is a U' done with the left index finger. Your right hand is > already free, so why can't it go and stop the timer? Because it's the > rule, and so you have to make the exchange or drop the cube, and stop > the timer with your left hand. > > If you want to pay $50 for those extra features, go ahead, but they are > not relevant to a competition setting. If you are complaining about > forcing people to buy StackMats so that they can practice, then you are > misguided because the new timer is a lot more and it's better we > 'force' people to buy a StackMat which is half the cost than to force > people to buy a new timer but with this all being said, you can > practice the methods of the StackMat without the StackMat. > > As nice as it would be, I don't have a 400 meter rubber track in my > backyard. No, I practice running my 3 minute 55 second 1500 meters on > the grass field. > > So please elucidate the $50's worth of improvement this timer provides. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > (If you wrote that message without reading the previous posts, that's > really unfair to me for having to repeat myself so I'm expecting novel > ideas.) > > On Sep 16, 2005, at 2:15 AM, Alberto Cuesta wrote: > > > remember that the rubik's timer is not just a timer. > > but 50$ is much cost for the improvements it provides vs. stackmat... > > > > Alberto > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Tyson Mao > > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 11:04 AM > > Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Re: Rubik's Timer > > > > > > But the StackMat is designed to do what you mention here and it costs > > $50 less. > > > > Tyson Mao > > MSC #631 > > California Institute of Technology > > > > On Sep 16, 2005, at 1:54 AM, Sachin Shirwalkar wrote: > > > >> Well the problem here seems to be that putting the cube on the pad is > >> stopping the timer and in stactmat the timer stops when the hands are > >> placed on the pads. So instead of putting the cube on its pad why not > >> put one hand on the pad instead? Then the time will start when the > >> hand is taken up and will stop when we put our hands back on the pad, > >> I think this will also solve the problems with other puzzles when the > >> puzzle dosent leave the table. > >> > >> So we are then using it like a stackmat only but instead of pads we > >> now have electronic detection which will be much more accurate. > >> > >> Dosent anyone see it better than the stackmat if used like this? > >> > >> Sachin. > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------- > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

----- Original Message ----- From: Stefan Pochmann To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 8:44 AM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: StackMat Timers --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Douthwright" <pdouthwright0513@r...> wrote: > > the duty of a timing device is to record the time NOT be a part of the solve. The faster you can stop a > timer the more accurate the time actually is. The duty of a timer in competition is to compare the abilities of competitors. There's just no way to "exactly" measure the solve time or even just define how to measure it, see Tyson's comments about video analysis. > Having to hit one pad in my opinion is faster the having to hit two. I doubt I'd smash my puzzles onto that new timer even nearly as fast as I smash my hands onto the stackmat. I'd fear to damage both the puzzle and that new timer. Btw, I don't know about you, but I have two hands. And I can move them at simultaneously. Amazing, huh? >No need to get insulting here. just stating that stopping a timer with one hand then having to do it with two. in a stack may if you do not stop them at the same time it does not stop. with the new timer you only have to place the puzzle on the pad to stop the time. Does this not seem faster to you? But yes, if possible I will also try out that new timer at WC2005, though I can already tell you I'll do it just for fun because I don't agree with the principle it's based on. > what principle? Stefan SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Burton To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 8:49 AM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Rubik's Timer --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gustav Fredell <gufr5747@s...> wrote: > Well... call me lazy that feels very labour intensive. It takes quite > some time writing down say 50 solves and then entering them into a > spreadsheet. And I won't even know my average until I do it. It seems > convenient to have it built in, into the timer for home practicing. Yes, it is convenient, but in my opinion, not worth the extra $50. For $50, I would rather insert the times onto my PC manually. Also, did you see there is a $50 accessory package? If you want to load times from your timer to a speadsheet on your PC, it is an ADDITIONAL $50. $100 to have my times saved is not worth it. > I agree about that it probably would be a problem timing the magic. You > should give it a try or two on the new timer, but there I put my money > on the StackMat beforehand. This is a problem for me to as you might > recognize me as the Swedish Champion in Rubiks Magic, with an awesome > record average of 3.42 :D The problem with "giving it a try" is that I finish my solve on the table. The puzzle would not be solved when I put it on the timer because I would be mid-solution. For the master magic, for example, almost the entire solution is on the mat. If it was required to do the entire puzzle in the air, times would be ridiculously slow. > This is where you you would stop and start the timer with one hand on the timer and not the puzzle. I know "the stack mat already does this" ~ Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- mike_go_uk wrote: > --- _jaap wrote: > > practical reasons there is a smaller safety margin for the higher > > cubes (else we'd use about 50 and 70 moves) but it is long enough > > that there are not likely to be many blocks of pieces left together > > at the end of the scramble. > > Have the (pairwise) correlations between pieces (of the same and > different types) been checked for a few million random scrambles? > Even > though I suspect that shorter scrambles would eliminate these anyway, > it would be reassuring if we could be certain that standard scrambles > are adequate. It would be very easy to verify. No. I have done some simple back of the envelope calculations ages ago. This also helped to determine that 40 and 60 moves was necessary. The 4x4x4 has 9 cuts inbetween the layers. There are 12 pairs of pieces bordering each cut. All together there are therefore 108 adjacent piece pairs, and each (multi-slice) move disturbs 12 of them and leaves 96 undisturbed. To estimate roughly how many moves are needed for all pairs to be disturbed, we want 108*(96/108)^n, which is the estimated number of undisturbed pairs, to be <1. This gives n>39.75. Similarly for the 5x5x5 cube we get 192* (176/192)^n < 1, leading to a length of 60.42. Jaap

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, _jaap <no_reply@y...> wrote: > The 4x4x4 has 9 cuts inbetween the layers. There are 12 pairs of > pieces bordering each cut. All together there are therefore 108 > adjacent piece pairs, and each (multi-slice) move disturbs 12 of them > and leaves 96 undisturbed. It's an interesting estimate, especially in the light of the lower bounds on the lengths of God's algorithm. But it's not completely clear that one can argue this way, since: (1) a given piece belongs to more than one pair simultaneously, (2) 12 nearby "pairs" are broken simultaneously by a turn and (3) there are short sequences, like URU', that will first break and then re-connect some of these "pairs"; so it is not then obvious that the correlations are destroyed as fast as one would like. That aside (and I don't seriously doubt that 25-,40-,60-turn scrambles *are* plenty long enough), it would still be nice to have empirical results to back up the estimates. I'll look at the pair correlations myself sometime soon... unless someone else feels the urge to rush off and try it right now ;) Mike

Hi Jaap! Is ur scrambler clever enough to avoid say (Rr)(Ll) on the 4x4x4 cube? If not i think it should be made that clever. This can be done by grouping legal moves according to axes of rotation :-) And some simple rules. Cheers! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, _jaap <no_reply@y...> wrote: > --- mike_go_uk wrote: > > --- _jaap wrote: > > > practical reasons there is a smaller safety margin for the higher > > > cubes (else we'd use about 50 and 70 moves) but it is long enough > > > that there are not likely to be many blocks of pieces left > together > > > at the end of the scramble. > > > > Have the (pairwise) correlations between pieces (of the same and > > different types) been checked for a few million random scrambles? > > Even > > though I suspect that shorter scrambles would eliminate these > anyway, > > it would be reassuring if we could be certain that standard > scrambles > > are adequate. It would be very easy to verify. > > No. I have done some simple back of the envelope calculations ages > ago. This also helped to determine that 40 and 60 moves was necessary. > > The 4x4x4 has 9 cuts inbetween the layers. There are 12 pairs of > pieces bordering each cut. All together there are therefore 108 > adjacent piece pairs, and each (multi-slice) move disturbs 12 of them > and leaves 96 undisturbed. > > To estimate roughly how many moves are needed for all pairs to be > disturbed, we want 108*(96/108)^n, which is the estimated number of > undisturbed pairs, to be <1. This gives n>39.75. > > Similarly for the 5x5x5 cube we get 192* (176/192)^n < 1, leading to > a length of 60.42. > > Jaap

--- mike_go_uk wrote: > --- _jaap wrote: > > The 4x4x4 has 9 cuts inbetween the layers. There are 12 pairs of > > pieces bordering each cut. All together there are therefore 108 > > adjacent piece pairs, and each (multi-slice) move disturbs 12 of > > them and leaves 96 undisturbed. > > It's an interesting estimate, especially in the light of the lower > bounds on the lengths of God's algorithm. But it's not completely > clear that one can argue this way, since: (1) a given piece belongs > to > more than one pair simultaneously, (2) 12 nearby "pairs" are broken > simultaneously by a turn and (3) there are short sequences, like > URU', > that will first break and then re-connect some of these "pairs"; so > it > is not then obvious that the correlations are destroyed as fast as > one would like. I don't think (1) is a problem. I imagine the cube as being covered in sellotape, and before each move you have to cut any bits of tape blocking the move. Cutting the tape along one side has no influence on the other sides. I don't understand your point in (2). I admit (3) is true, but I don't think it matters much, just like the LR=RL relations in the other estimates. Another assumption used in deriving the simple formula is that each move destroys a certain fixed percentage of the pairings, as if the unbroken pairings are distributed evenly over the cube at all times. This is certainly not the case in the first few moves, which usually break a higher percentage of those pairings. This might compensate for the effect of (3) a little. This kind of thing is just so riddled with simplifications and assumptions, but it is good enough for getting ballpark figures. For single-slice moves this method doesn't work as well. Whereas multi-slice moves tend to keep blocks of pieces together for a while, single-slice moves tend to keep non-adjacent pieces in the same relative positions. > it would still be nice to have empirical > results to back up the estimates. I'll look at the pair > correlations myself sometime soon... I'd like to see some real stats too, but I'm not interested enough to actually do it myself. Jaap

Today I did a 5x5 solve in just under 12 minutes, which is my personal best. It needs to be lubed... I also got some new PBs on 4x4 and 3x3 in the last little while. 4x4 is 2:54.xx but it was really easy solve. My 3x3 is 40.89 amd this morning i got a PB average of 53.(high)xx I also wanted to know the best way to teach someone how to solve. Craig

--- "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > Is ur scrambler clever enough to avoid say (Rr)(Ll) on the 4x4x4 > cube? Yes it is. In multi-slice mode it is very easy to check for this, since that is the only case that simplifies to fewer moves plus a cube rotation. Standard single-slice mode is trickier (e.g. R r L' = l' Rc), and I'm sure you remember it being discussed here some time ago. There used to be a bug in my scrambler that made it fail to detect this in certain cases, but I fixed that a few months ago. Jaap

--- Anders Larsson <anders.larsson@...> wrote: > Crispy, you're welcome. In fact, I was very happy > that we had at least ten competitors so we did not >face the problem of breaking the rule and the >potential discussion of being accepted as official or > not. That is awesome that you were able to pull together 10 people. We are hold a competition here this weekend and we thought that the 10 competitor rule was going to be an issue but lucky for us people are willing to travel (Chris, Mike and a few others). When I looked at the 3x3 results I just failed to realize that your 3x3 BLD was not on the list (which made 10 - sorry, I wasn't meaning to bring doubt into community). Besides it is awesome when you can get it official that way the people who do sacrifice the time to practice and travel can be ranked and hopefully inspired to do better the next time. :) Christy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Hey Jaap, A few questions about the new scramble program. I guess this one is more general, I perfectly accept that by the new scrambling procedure all the inner slice moves r,l,f,b,u,d are now 2 moves long (Rr) R', (Ll) L', (Ff) F', (Bb) B', (Uu) U', (Dd) D' So how does this affect the 4x4x4 scrambling? That was my main concern. If 39.75 moves is enough to break up most piece pairs, what happens if 2 of those moves are now one single inner slice turn? Are 40 turns still enough? I guess my main question is does your scrambler allow single inner slice turns (which are now two moves long)? Lastly can it allow the legal way of turning three parallel layers? R r2 l = (Rr)2 R' (Ll) L' ? And others? Thanks for your time and posts about some of the analysis of the new scrambling system. Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, _jaap <no_reply@y...> wrote: > --- "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > > Is ur scrambler clever enough to avoid say (Rr)(Ll) on the 4x4x4 > > cube? > > Yes it is. In multi-slice mode it is very easy to check for this, since > that is the only case that simplifies to fewer moves plus a cube > rotation. > Standard single-slice mode is trickier (e.g. R r L' = l' Rc), and I'm > sure you remember it being discussed here some time ago. There used to > be a bug in my scrambler that made it fail to detect this in certain > cases, but I fixed that a few months ago. > > Jaap

Hi! I'm happy to see that you use the intuitive notation for cube rotations: Rc etc ;-) If only the others would follow ... Cheers! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, _jaap <no_reply@y...> wrote: > --- "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > > Is ur scrambler clever enough to avoid say (Rr)(Ll) on the 4x4x4 > > cube? > > Yes it is. In multi-slice mode it is very easy to check for this, since > that is the only case that simplifies to fewer moves plus a cube > rotation. > Standard single-slice mode is trickier (e.g. R r L' = l' Rc), and I'm > sure you remember it being discussed here some time ago. There used to > be a bug in my scrambler that made it fail to detect this in certain > cases, but I fixed that a few months ago. > > Jaap

If people are hell bent on scrambling the cubes in another way here is another proposal. Why not use more, if not solely, three parallel layer turns? If I am away from my computer and unable to print out a scramble for my 4x4x4 I always scramble almost solely with three parallel layer turns. This leaves the cube better messed up than if I just try to estimate a equal number of inner slice to outer slice turns. These can be done like so U (Uu) (Uud') = U' u2 d' (U u d') (Uu)2 U' = d' u' U2 (U u d')2 (Uu)' U2 = d2 u U' invert the signs to turn slices another way. Also you can see that these are all the possibilities for turning either an outer layer or an inner layer as the double turn. I imagine reading triple layer turns (if we had the right notation) would not be that hard. Also if people were trained to realize the turns would always be (some triple, some double, and some single) together, then it woudl switch to another triplet of (triple,double,single) then they see more of a pattern than random turns. Try scrambling this way and see what you think. It is not that time consuming, and it messes up the cube very quickly. Also each parallel turn is 3 moves (HTM) so you could do it 13 times and then add an extra move at the end. In terms of execution you have done 40 moves every time, triple layer turns and double turns counting as 1 "competition scrambler turn". Chris

This can extend to the 5x5x5 a bit as well if you count M,E,S as slices. The only rule is that still only 3 parallel turns are possible, and as seen from the turn axis one face must turn clockwise, one counterclockwise, and one double. So among 5 slices on the L-R plane (L,l,M,r,R) you can choose three (10 ways to do that) and among those three slices you can choose which faces turn which way (6 ways to do that) So among each axis there are 60 possible three parallel layer turns, and if you change axes frequently then you should still get a very scrambled cube in 60 turns. The scrambles may include quadruple layer turns for the 5x5x5, but it would still come out to 60 "competition scrambler moves" if you were clever with the scrambling program. Chris

>We have varying degrees of resources to ensure precise big cube >scrambles for everyone else. It can be done, but I don't see it as a >priority. We, delegate, doesn't have power. I believe we must follow WCA rule to make the competition as official. As long as the rule doesn't memtion about mistake during scramle, it is not minor thing. If we allow one mistake during scramble, we can't verify there was one mistake or more. Then, we don't need to follow computer based algorithm anymore. I believe we should prepare cubes in same condition for official competition. Masayuki

--- cmhardw wrote: > A few questions about the new scramble program. Well, it is just the same old program with an extra option added. > So how does this affect the 4x4x4 scrambling? That was my main > concern. If 39.75 moves is enough to break up most piece pairs, > what happens if 2 of those moves are now one single inner slice > turn? Are 40 turns still enough? To all intents and purposes a single-slice move and a multi-slice move have the same mixing power. The first breaks up more adjacent pairs of pieces, while the second breaks up more non-adjacent pairs. For very short mixing sequences you will see that the multi-slice mixes have more blocks, while the single-slice mixes have more non- adjacent pairs that haven't moved relative to each other. The number of facelets of each colour on each face is about the same after the same number of moves. > I guess my main question is does your scrambler allow single inner > slice turns (which are now two moves long)? Yes. > Lastly can it allow the legal way of turning three parallel layers? For consistency I'll write the moves below in single-slice notation (i.e. r means just one slice in the text below, even though in multi- slice mode the scrambler uses that to denote the movement of two slices). It allows R,(Rr),(Ll),L as the basic moves on the r-l axis. However, it does not allow both (Rr) and (Ll) to be used in a combination, because two such moves would simplify to a cube rotation and a single move (or even to just a cube rotation). So we allow for example R (Rr)' L' but not (Rr) (Ll)2 L Think of each move not as having an effect on a set of layers, but as acting on one of the 3 cutting planes along that axis. A move indicates how much the part to one side of the plane has moved relative to the other side. Thought of this way it becomes clear that any combination of these moves along an axis will not be simplified to fewer moves by using a cube rotation, except for the fact that Rr and Ll apply to the same cutting plane. Note also that it will still use the same system for avoiding cancellations such as RLR = R2L by only doing the moves on an axis in one particular order. This is no different than the single-slice metric, in that for example only one of RL or LR is allowed (I forget which order I chose in my program). Jaap

I row. That is more hours per week than anything else in my life. :P ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Does anyone here to any other types of exercise to improve their > cubing? I'll usually go out for a 6 to 10 mile run, hit the weights > for about 45 minutes alternating upper and lower body days throughout > the week, and then do 4 intervals of 400 meters at 70 seconds. Except > on Saturdays, and I'll mainly do resistance work. They've got these > excellent belts you wear like a backpack and you drag wooden blocks > behind you. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, _jaap <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > clear that one can argue this way, since: (1) a given piece belongs > > to > > more than one pair simultaneously, (2) 12 nearby "pairs" are broken > > simultaneously by a turn and (3) there are short sequences, like > > URU', > > that will first break and then re-connect some of these "pairs"; so > > it > > is not then obvious that the correlations are destroyed as fast as > > one would like. > > I don't think (1) is a problem. I imagine the cube as being covered > in sellotape, and before each move you have to cut any bits of tape > blocking the move. Cutting the tape along one side has no influence > on the other sides. Just one point here is that "pairs" (or pieces of tape, if you like) are not objects that can be treated as if they are independent of one another. E.g., if you break the pair URF-UR on the 3x3x3 you can be quite sure that you are *not* also breaking URF-UR. > I don't understand your point in (2). It simply led on to (3): because the pairs are all broken together, several of them can be joined up again 2 moves later. None of this was well explained - I was just expressing discomfort, a little inarticulately. > I admit (3) is true, but I don't think it matters much, just like the > LR=RL relations in the other estimates. Oh, I agree. It would just be nice to be sure. > Another assumption used in deriving the simple formula is that each > move destroys a certain fixed percentage of the pairings, as if the > unbroken pairings are distributed evenly over the cube at all times. Yes, it's very like Boltzmann's Stosszahlansatz... and it might interact badly with (1). > I'd like to see some real stats too, but I'm not interested enough to > actually do it myself. I find it interesting enough... I'll have a go at some point. Mike

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" <logitewty@h...> wrote: > any tips/tricks??? > > I am taking a 2 hour drive with my volleyball team tomorrow and some > guys wanna learn, so I told them I'd teach them, but I don't know how > to without making it confusing... > > Any hlp would ROCK... > > Craig Hi Craig, If I need to explain the first two levels I say that I look for ways to move pieces about without disturbing the pieces I already have placed. You might demonstrate 1.) placing a corner, 2.) placing an edge next to it, and then 3.) pairing up a corner and edge and then placing them. Many people told me that they could solve the first two level, so I only explained the last level. For the last level I explain that there are two kinds of pieces: corners and edges; and two kinds of problems to solve: position and orientation. I explain that an algorithm is a sequence of moves which always does the same thing, and I demonstrate, with 3 cycles, that repetition of an algorithm returns the cube to the initial state. Solved cube -> three cycle once -> three cycle twice -> three cycle three times = solved cube. The four three-cycles I use are (lower case letters are slices): Corner position: R U' L' U R' U' L U Corner orientation: R U R' U R U2 R' U2 Edge position: F2 U r U2 r' U F2 Edge orientation: r U r' U2 r U r' Cheers, David J

When I teach, I always try to keep the number of algs to a minimum. Starting out, I show people how to make a cross (that's always the hardest part) Then I give them a choice, learning either 6 algs. 3 of which don't make any sense at all and they just have to memorize them. Or learning 4 algs. The last of which requires thought. They always choose the 4 1. "Down Down Up Up" or in our terms R' F R F'. This one they use to place the 4 corners in the bottom layer. 2. "Away up towards down" (U R U' R'). This one pairs an edge with a corner that's alrwady in place. The hardest part is explaining which way "away" and "towards" are. If you have a good analogy for this one, please share it with me. After the CE pair is created, it's just another Down Down Up Up. 3. Rubik's move for edge orientation ... you all know it S U S U S U2 S' U S' U S' U2 (or something like that, I don't know slice notation very well) (up right up right up around...down right down right down around) There is a definite pattern to that one, so they usually catch on quick. 4. The Down Around Up's Yes, I teach the rest of the cube using commutators. usually they catch on quick if you don't call it a commutator. The hardest part about that is teaching them how to do corner orientations, but the pendulum analogy works well (start the pendulum on the side with the top color and swing it. It goes right to left then left to right.) Then I show them how it "grabs" a piece from the top layer and how you can swap it with another. I do that with slices for the edges and the right face for the corners. And they're done. Then I write out the 4 algs on a piece of paper, and off they go. Fox

When i teach someone, ive always tried to use my students as guinea pigs for testing different methods. The first two guys i taught i taught them the corner first method, and it was quite hard for them. To the next guy i taught the lbl method with all algos(5-6 in total). To the next guy i taught him commutators and he learnt it quite fast. So i use commutators to teach ppl the last layer algos. Usually i direct them to Gilles site http://grrroux.free.fr/begin/Begin.html And yes abot the middle layer edges, i also teach them sort of the away principle that was posted. Suppose the white red corner is to be placed(white on top, red on the sides) . I first tell them to align red to red. This is easy as only u have to do a U move. Then i tell them to move it in a direction opposite to the white edge i.e. towards the yellow center if green is at the top. Then apply the algo. Usually ppl understand it after some tinkering. Hope this helps :) Sachin. On 9/16/05, qwerty1110 <qwerty1110@...> wrote: > When I teach, I always try to keep the number of algs to a minimum. > Starting out, I show people how to make a cross (that's always the > hardest part) > Then I give them a choice, learning either 6 algs. 3 of which don't > make any sense at all and they just have to memorize them. > Or learning 4 algs. The last of which requires thought. > They always choose the 4 > > > 1. "Down Down Up Up" or in our terms R' F R F'. This one they use to > place the 4 corners in the bottom layer. > > 2. "Away up towards down" (U R U' R'). This one pairs an edge with a > corner that's alrwady in place. The hardest part is explaining which > way "away" and "towards" are. If you have a good analogy for this one, > please share it with me. After the CE pair is created, it's just > another Down Down Up Up. > > 3. Rubik's move for edge orientation ... you all know it > S U S U S U2 S' U S' U S' U2 (or something like that, I don't know > slice notation very well) > (up right up right up around...down right down right down around) > There is a definite pattern to that one, so they usually catch on > quick. > > 4. The Down Around Up's > Yes, I teach the rest of the cube using commutators. > usually they catch on quick if you don't call it a commutator. > The hardest part about that is teaching them how to do corner > orientations, but the pendulum analogy works well (start the pendulum > on the side with the top color and swing it. It goes right to left > then left to right.) > Then I show them how it "grabs" a piece from the top layer and how you > can swap it with another. I do that with slices for the edges and the > right face for the corners. And they're done. > > Then I write out the 4 algs on a piece of paper, and off they go. > > > Fox > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Hi everyone, After about a year and a half of development, the Rubik's timer is now available for sale at www.rubiks.com. It is in the "New Releases" section of the online store. I read the posts and have received plenty of feedback of from people ranging from "I am an arrogant asshole who knows nothing" all the way to "That is a truly remarkable product you designed I can't wait to buy one." Of course everyone has a right to their opinion. The official timing standard for speedcubing hasn't changed, nor was this the reason why I built the timer. The Rubik's timer will not be permissible in competition for the forseeable future. The stackmat remains the only accepted timer for competition. If the speedcubing community eventually decides that the Rubik's timer should be allowed in competition, then that is for the community to decide, not me. All I want to say about the Rubik's timer is that I think it is a very useful training/practice tool, because it can be used comfortably in your lap, it can track your averages and store your times in a database, and it's handy for generating scrambles. If you are a top speedcuber and want to practice with the exact tool you will use in competition because every 1/100th second counts to you, then the Rubik's timer is not for you. If you want a timer to use on your couch that computes averages, times pre-inspection, maintains a database of times, generates scrambes, then I recommend the features of the Rubik's timer. A lot of accusations have been thrown around by people who are guessing and assuming things about me and my company that aren't true. So I'd like to simply state my cubing background. I have been speedcubing for 3 years now and I competed in the 2003 WC games and placed in the middle of the pack with a time of about 40 seconds. Nowadays I average around 28 seconds and a good solve is around 20 seconds. So I am not a top speedcuber and I tend to keep low profile, although I do keep a watch on the speedcubing scene. I love to speedcube and wanted a timer that I could use in my lap on my living-room couch with some Rubiks-cube-specific-features in it. I thought there might be other people like me too, so I offered the idea to SevenTowns and they accepted. So I built the timer for 2 very basic reasons 1) because I can, and 2) because I wanted to. I did not build the timer to try to overtake the speedcubing community standards. Opnions seem to vary wildly, more so than I would have guessed, and I respect everyone's opinion. -Eric Johanson

Hello, I've been to Joël Heymbeek's place today, we solved some cubes and he recommended me to specifically train on the LL. I think it's a good idea (for me) and I'm looking for a scrambler program that scrambles only the LL. So that I can work on it more easily, make averages,... Does that kind of program exists or is it possible to do it ? Thanks, Gilles.

Haha, you should find someone who wants to practice F2L and be their new best friend. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 16, 2005, at 12:17 PM, gillesvdp wrote: > Hello, > > I've been to Joël Heymbeek's place today, we solved some cubes and he > recommended me to specifically train on the LL. > > I think it's a good idea (for me) and I'm looking for a scrambler > program that scrambles only the LL. So that I can work on it more > easily, make averages,... > > Does that kind of program exists or is it possible to do it ? > Thanks, > Gilles. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Hey everyone, I would not be surprised in the least if this has already been done, but I am very happy to have gotten sub-60 for the 4x4 on a solve with both parity errors! I just recently got 58.28 seconds with both the OLL and PLL parity. I have now gotten sub-60 on every parity scenario! Yay! Again I would not be surprised at all if this has already been done, I am just happy to have done it too. Chris

Tyson -- I assume that you're cubing at the same time you're doing all this, right?? :-) That would be *real* cross-training. I do work out for fitness (bike, lift, stairs, soccer, volleyball, etc), but for my cubing, I find that the mental aspects are more important - calmness, paying attention, foresight, relaxation - they help me stay focused and avoid mistakes. Of course, I'm a C/D-level cuber (average 45-50 seconds on the 3x3x3), so what works for me might not work for others. yeff --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Does anyone here to any other types of exercise to improve their > cubing? I'll usually go out for a 6 to 10 mile run, hit the weights > for about 45 minutes alternating upper and lower body days throughout > the week, and then do 4 intervals of 400 meters at 70 seconds. Except > on Saturdays, and I'll mainly do resistance work. They've got these > excellent belts you wear like a backpack and you drag wooden blocks > behind you. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology

Hi guys! I was thinking today that I should change method for 2*2*2. I plan to learn CLL so I can solve it in 2 steps. How much do you benefit on 3*3*3 using CLL? It seems to my that it takes more time to recognize a CLL-case than just the orientation of the corners. Do you save more time during PLL on average, than you loose during OLL, using CLL? If I don't save some time on 3*3*3, I wil learn the shorter algs for 2*2*2 that would effect the edges on the 3*3*3. /Gunnar

Hi, Just curious, does anyone know about what time the wc2005 in florida will start and end on saturday/sunday (nov 5/6)? Also, is there an actual schedule of saturday/sunday (nov 5/6)? Thanks, -Brento :) --Brent --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey all, Woo-hoo First Sub-30. I've attained my goal from my post on Jan 3rd with an Ave of 29.64sec. I'm in leagues with you Jasmine. I was pretty even with Mr. Burton but... well... you know the rest of that story. Need some advice with my cross. I'm using Fridrich 2-look. Getting very frustrated with my advancement of my cross. Can't perform cross efficiently blindfolded. About half the time I don't get it right. How long does it normally take, or is there a midstep that ppl use to get from: 1. performing cross in less than 7 moves to 2. performing in less than 7 moves blindfolded (as recommended on Macky's page) Thanks Dwayne [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > > Honestly, yes, it could affect the world record, which is why for > people like Frank Morris and Chris Hardwick, I am especially careful on > the larger cubes. I don't get it. You guys make it sound like it's a terrible thing if I make a mistake while scrambling. Your argument is that the mistake could lead to a world record and that this is bad. Ok, let's say the scramble is: (30 moves) B (29 moves) And instead of B I accidentally do B'. So what? It's still an equally valid random scramble! The chances of making the scramble easier by this are just as high as the chances of making it harder. This does *not* make the scramble any weaker or less valid. Particularly I can't understand how you can use the world record argument. I could understand if you argued about making it "fair" inside a single contest round (where it's also not necessary) but for a world record?? Doesn't make sense. Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, James Benedict Caares <ben41sbr2@y...> wrote: > i hope that there will be a 13 seconds average in an official competition just like Sebastein Felix and Jean Pons has in the Unofficial World Records, i hope they will accomplish such record. Just curios: Why? Stefan

Just simulate the 1x1x1 on a 3x3x3 : ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Craig, My best times are practically identical to yours for the 3x3x3! Fascinating. Not really, but it was nice to see that I'm not the only one on this group that hasn't broken 30s yet. Anyway, I have always thought that the Petrus method is the easiest method to teach someone since it's so visual. Also, I think that the Petrus method has the advantage that you can clearly define some "rules" for what sides you are "allowed" to turn in the different steps. The only tricky part is the recognition of bad edges; most of the people I have taught have had a hard time with that particular step. The Petrus method can really be distilled down to 2 algorithms (Niklas and Sune) plus the 3-turns to flip a pair of edges. It's helpful to learn the Allan too, but it's not absolutely necessary. As was mentioned, I think that corners first is a really difficult method for new-comers because they aren't familiar with looking at a corner and figuring out whether it is in the right place or not, much less finding three corners that form a cycle. Friedrich can be okay for new cubers, but I think that there are more ways to screw things up in the F2L. With Petrus you can just tell them not to turn anything but three sides once the 2x2x2 is assembled. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" <logitewty@h...> wrote: > Today I did a 5x5 solve in just under 12 minutes, which is my personal > best. It needs to be lubed... > > I also got some new PBs on 4x4 and 3x3 in the last little while. 4x4 > is 2:54.xx but it was really easy solve. My 3x3 is 40.89 amd this > morning i got a PB average of 53.(high)xx > > I also wanted to know the best way to teach someone how to solve. > > Craig

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Douthwright" <pdouthwright0513@r...> wrote: > > just stating that stopping a timer with one hand then having to do it with two. > in a stack may if you do not stop them at the same time it does not stop. Are you saying I must hit the stackmat's two pads at the same time in order to stop the timer? That's not true. Stefan P.S. It would help if you could ">-indent" the original message instead of your answer.

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@g...> wrote: > > So we are then using it like a stackmat only but instead of pads we > now have electronic detection which will be much more accurate. The stackmat uses electronic detection, too. Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "goodxy2002" <goodxy2002@y...> wrote: > > I know macky works out at Golds for 15-18 hours a week. What's "Golds"? If Macky does that, I want it, too :-) Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > This does *not* make the scramble any weaker or less valid. Little correction: Of course a mistake might make a scramble weaker or stronger. Just not less valid. Cheers! Stefan

Hi :-) Why use a method with 2 parities? Hehehe ;-) I have solved in sub 1:00 with my single parity at least :-) Cheers! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I would not be surprised in the least if this has already been done, > but I am very happy to have gotten sub-60 for the 4x4 on a solve with > both parity errors! > > I just recently got 58.28 seconds with both the OLL and PLL parity. > > I have now gotten sub-60 on every parity scenario! Yay! > > Again I would not be surprised at all if this has already been done, I > am just happy to have done it too. > > Chris

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "goodxy2002" > <goodxy2002@y...> wrote: > > > > I know macky works out at Golds for 15-18 hours a week. > > What's "Golds"? If Macky does that, I want it, too :-) > > Stefan Gold's gym is a branch of gyms in America. Very hardcore i must say... if it works for macky...hey it's gotta do something

He's obviously crazy, Per. Then again, I just did 1:30 with both... -Mike --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > Hi :-) > > Why use a method with 2 parities? Hehehe ;-) I have solved in sub 1:00 > with my single parity at least :-) > > Cheers! > > -Per

Are you saying I must hit the stackmat's two pads at the same time in order to stop the timer? That's not true. Sorry my mistake [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just tested it out with my brother. If the judge has one hand on one pad and the 'one-armed' one-handed competitor hits the other pad, the timer will stop and start. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 16, 2005, at 4:48 PM, Peter Douthwright wrote: > > Are you saying I must hit the stackmat's two pads at the same time > in > order to stop the timer? That's not true. > > Sorry my mistake > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > I just tested it out with my brother. If the judge has one hand on one > pad and the 'one-armed' one-handed competitor hits the other pad, the > timer will stop and start. I figured it would. I got this idea from the Joel van Noort / Dan Harris team video. ~ Bob

I am hoping some one could give me a link, where I can learn the best method for speed cubing.

http://www.pizazz.info/pizazz.mov Best method. Ever. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 16, 2005, at 5:34 PM, austinbos wrote: > I am hoping some one could give me a link, where I can learn the best > method for speed cubing. > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Hey thanks I'll be speed cubing in no time. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > http://www.pizazz.info/pizazz.mov > > Best method. Ever. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 16, 2005, at 5:34 PM, austinbos wrote: > > > I am hoping some one could give me a link, where I can learn the best > > method for speed cubing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

So there really isn't a 'best' method. Are you starting out or are you a cuber looking to break 15 seconds? Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 16, 2005, at 6:13 PM, austinbos wrote: > > Hey thanks I'll be speed cubing in no time. > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > wrote: >> http://www.pizazz.info/pizazz.mov >> >> Best method. Ever. >> >> Tyson Mao >> MSC #631 >> California Institute of Technology >> >> On Sep 16, 2005, at 5:34 PM, austinbos wrote: >> >>> I am hoping some one could give me a link, where I can learn the > best >>> method for speed cubing. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Well I know a few speed cube methods, so I am past the starting out phase. I would say i am in the "need practice" phase. My problem is I dont see myself being able to solve the cube under 30 seconds with the methods I know. How do I speed things up? And how do i see what to do quicker? --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > So there really isn't a 'best' method. Are you starting out or are you > a cuber looking to break 15 seconds? > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 16, 2005, at 6:13 PM, austinbos wrote: > > > > > Hey thanks I'll be speed cubing in no time. > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > > wrote: > >> http://www.pizazz.info/pizazz.mov > >> > >> Best method. Ever. > >> > >> Tyson Mao > >> MSC #631 > >> California Institute of Technology > >> > >> On Sep 16, 2005, at 5:34 PM, austinbos wrote: > >> > >>> I am hoping some one could give me a link, where I can learn the > > best > >>> method for speed cubing. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "austinbos" <austinbos@y...> wrote: > I am hoping some one could give me a link, where I can learn the best > method for speed cubing. Ha! If you find a link for such a thing, please let me know! :) Some would say that the Fridrich method is the best method (right now, most of the top cubers use that one). The petrus and roux methods can also be fast. There are some fast CF methods, too. I use Fridrich; there are many places you can learn, but I happen to like my own (www.cubewhiz.com). ~ Bob

(to bob) i love your site its really helpful, I was wondering how do you solve the first two layers? --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "austinbos" > <austinbos@y...> wrote: > > I am hoping some one could give me a link, where I can learn the best > > method for speed cubing. > > Ha! If you find a link for such a thing, please let me know! :) Some > would say that the Fridrich method is the best method (right now, most > of the top cubers use that one). The petrus and roux methods can also > be fast. There are some fast CF methods, too. I use Fridrich; there > are many places you can learn, but I happen to like my own > (www.cubewhiz.com). > > ~ Bob

Wow.... I'm speechless.... Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > http://www.pizazz.info/pizazz.mov > > Best method. Ever. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "austinbos" <austinbos@y...> wrote: > (to bob) i love your site its really helpful, I was wondering how > do you solve the first two layers? I am glad you find it helpful. :) I solve the F2L as I explain also on my site on the F2L page. I solve it intuitively, but the way I solve the corner/edge pairs is the same every time. Hence, I am technically using the "algorithms" I listed on my F2L page. I try to solve the C/E pairs from all angles and minimizing cube rotations, but it doesn't always work out that way. :) ~ Bob

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Wow.... I'm speechless.... Yeah, me too. ~ Bob

Hey everyone, I recently added some more OLL parity alg tricks to my speed solve 4x4 solution. You can see them at http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/4speedsolve3.html and I also started a second page at http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/4speedsolve32.html for some more tricks. Would anybody be interested in more? I can do a few more, but I'd rather there be some interest first. Chris

I know Ron was working on that a few days ago. I don't know if he's finished it yet. 2005/9/16, Brent Morgan <brentmorganmaster@...>: > > Hi, > > Just curious, does anyone know about what time the wc2005 in florida will start and end on saturday/sunday (nov 5/6)? Also, is there an actual schedule of saturday/sunday (nov 5/6)? Thanks, > > -Brento > > > > :) > --Brent > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! for Good > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

If you can simulate cube, would you be allowed to compete in the 2x2 competition with a 4x4 scrambled as a 2x2 ? I don't think so... 2005/9/16, bmytko@... <bmytko@...>: > Just simulate the 1x1x1 on a 3x3x3 : ) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

While I haven't tested the veracity of that statement, I don't see why it shouldn't. By all means, it adds an extra layer of difficulty. Not only do you have to worry about the 2x2 aspect of the cube, but you simultaneously have to worry about keeping it in a 2x2 form. If it's only a possible handicap, I don't see why it should be disallowed. -Mike --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > If you can simulate cube, would you be allowed to compete in the 2x2 > competition with a 4x4 scrambled as a 2x2 ? > I don't think so... > > 2005/9/16, bmytko@o... <bmytko@o...>: > > Just simulate the 1x1x1 on a 3x3x3 : ) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

How about a "stratified" scrambling? E.g. for the 4x4x4: Always begin with a proved ten-mover that in highest degree breaks the blocks, followed by a normal random scrambling in 30 moves. R ----- Original Message ----- From: "_jaap" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 10:27 AM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier > Let me just weigh in here a little. > > Ideally, scrambles are long enough that every possible position has a > nearly equal probability of occurring. There is no way to be totally > sure of how long this should be, even on a 3x3x3. All we can do is > take rough guesstimates. > > Here is a simplified outline for the 3x3x3 cube. > The first move of the scramble sequence can be any one of 18 moves. > For the second and each subsequent move, there are 15 choices (we > ignore LR=RL for now). This means that there are 18*15^(n-1) > scrambles of length n. Of course we want this number to exceed the > total number of positions (43*10^18), so n must be greater than 17.5. > > Clearly this is an underestimate, because there are many scramble > sequences for each position. For the 3x3x3 we use 25 moves, for the > reasons Ron has stated. I think that this number is still a bit low, > since I believe that the diameter (i.e. longest optimal solution > length) is more likely to be 22-23 than 20. Therefore not all > positions will be nearly equally likely, but in practice that doesn't > matter - it will be scrambled enough that there is no shortcut to > solving it. > > In the above, we ignored that LR=RL etc. If you take this into > account, the results are not much different. You get much better > estimates for the number of positions a few moves away from start, > but the growth rate is so similar that the scramble length estimates > are hardly changed (only 1 or 2 moves longer). > > Here is a table for all currently available cube sizes: > > 2x2x2 : 3.7*10^6 : 9* 6^(n-1) : 8.2 : 11 : 25 > 3x3x3 : 4.3*10^19 : 18*15^(n-1) : 17.5 : 23?: 25 > 4x4x4 : 7.4*10^45 : 27*24^(n-1) : 33.2 : ?? : 40 > 5x5x5 : 2.8*10^74 : 36*33^(n-1) : 49.0 : ?? : 60 > > It shows > - the cube size > - the number of positions > - the approximate number of scrambles of length n > - the length n for which #scrambles>#positions > - God's Algorithm length > - competition scramble length > > Clearly the 2x2x2 competition scramble length is a bit excessive (but > easy enough to do in practice), but others seem reasonable. For > practical reasons there is a smaller safety margin for the higher > cubes (else we'd use about 50 and 70 moves) but it is long enough > that there are not likely to be many blocks of pieces left together > at the end of the scramble. > > Anyway, back to the matter at hand. Would such estimates differ if we > use multi-slice moves instead? I think not. We still have the same > number of moves to choose from at each step in the scramble, and > there is still the same number of commutivity relations (such as > RL=LR or rR=Rr). > > I find it interesting to speculate on whether you can use this to > estimate the God's Algorithm lengths for 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. I would say > they are possibly about 45 and 65 moves. > > Scramblers: > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/ > Jaap's Puzzle Page: > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/puzzles/ > > Jaap > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

so does that exist or not ? I think i've seen something like that a while ago, but I can't remember where :s

Hi! Good idea. Other possibilities are: 10 proven + 20 random + 10 proven or 10/10/10/10 ... and so on ... The technicalities of this is hidden in the code of the scrambling program. Transparent to both the user and solver ;-) Not that i really think the scrambling affects the times all that much really. In competitions it's most important that everyone get same scramble(s) :-) Cheers! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > How about a "stratified" scrambling? > E.g. for the 4x4x4: > Always begin with a proved ten-mover that in highest degree breaks the blocks, followed by a normal random scrambling in 30 moves. > R > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "_jaap" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 10:27 AM > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier > > > > Let me just weigh in here a little. > > > > Ideally, scrambles are long enough that every possible position has a > > nearly equal probability of occurring. There is no way to be totally > > sure of how long this should be, even on a 3x3x3. All we can do is > > take rough guesstimates. > > > > Here is a simplified outline for the 3x3x3 cube. > > The first move of the scramble sequence can be any one of 18 moves. > > For the second and each subsequent move, there are 15 choices (we > > ignore LR=RL for now). This means that there are 18*15^(n-1) > > scrambles of length n. Of course we want this number to exceed the > > total number of positions (43*10^18), so n must be greater than 17.5. > > > > Clearly this is an underestimate, because there are many scramble > > sequences for each position. For the 3x3x3 we use 25 moves, for the > > reasons Ron has stated. I think that this number is still a bit low, > > since I believe that the diameter (i.e. longest optimal solution > > length) is more likely to be 22-23 than 20. Therefore not all > > positions will be nearly equally likely, but in practice that doesn't > > matter - it will be scrambled enough that there is no shortcut to > > solving it. > > > > In the above, we ignored that LR=RL etc. If you take this into > > account, the results are not much different. You get much better > > estimates for the number of positions a few moves away from start, > > but the growth rate is so similar that the scramble length estimates > > are hardly changed (only 1 or 2 moves longer). > > > > Here is a table for all currently available cube sizes: > > > > 2x2x2 : 3.7*10^6 : 9* 6^(n-1) : 8.2 : 11 : 25 > > 3x3x3 : 4.3*10^19 : 18*15^(n-1) : 17.5 : 23?: 25 > > 4x4x4 : 7.4*10^45 : 27*24^(n-1) : 33.2 : ?? : 40 > > 5x5x5 : 2.8*10^74 : 36*33^(n-1) : 49.0 : ?? : 60 > > > > It shows > > - the cube size > > - the number of positions > > - the approximate number of scrambles of length n > > - the length n for which #scrambles>#positions > > - God's Algorithm length > > - competition scramble length > > > > Clearly the 2x2x2 competition scramble length is a bit excessive (but > > easy enough to do in practice), but others seem reasonable. For > > practical reasons there is a smaller safety margin for the higher > > cubes (else we'd use about 50 and 70 moves) but it is long enough > > that there are not likely to be many blocks of pieces left together > > at the end of the scramble. > > > > Anyway, back to the matter at hand. Would such estimates differ if we > > use multi-slice moves instead? I think not. We still have the same > > number of moves to choose from at each step in the scramble, and > > there is still the same number of commutivity relations (such as > > RL=LR or rR=Rr). > > > > I find it interesting to speculate on whether you can use this to > > estimate the God's Algorithm lengths for 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. I would say > > they are possibly about 45 and 65 moves. > > > > Scramblers: > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/ > > Jaap's Puzzle Page: > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/puzzles/ > > > > Jaap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > so does that exist or not ? > I think i've seen something like that a while ago, but I can't remember where :s Yes. Go to speedcubing.com, click on "Algorithms", scroll down, click on "All 1211 last layer algorithms". Cheers! Stefan

geez.. seems like everyone here is really in shape... am i the only typical computer nerd here? On 9/16/05, goodxy2002 <goodxy2002@...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "goodxy2002" > > <goodxy2002@y...> wrote: > > > > > > I know macky works out at Golds for 15-18 hours a week. > > > > What's "Golds"? If Macky does that, I want it, too :-) > > > > Stefan > > Gold's gym is a branch of gyms in America. Very hardcore i must say... > if it works for macky...hey it's gotta do something > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > > In competitions it's most important that everyone get > same scramble(s) :-) Why is that important? Stefan

what the HELL was that..... On 9/16/05, Bob Burton <bob@...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> > wrote: > > Wow.... I'm speechless.... > > Yeah, me too. > > ~ Bob > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

Hey guys, I was wondering something about maths, and this is a place where lots of mathmaticians come... So I guess I can post it here. I was wondering if there is something like a threedimensional version of the Pascal Triangle? The numbers in the pascal triangle represent the number of ways you can walk to that point from the top of the triangle. But you can also do something like this in threespace... For example, you can work out a formula for the number of ways to walk from the origin to the point (x,y,z) (with x,y,z Natural numbers), if you can use x+y+z 'steps', and you can choose to walk one 'unit' in the x, y or z direction during each step. That way, it's possible to define a new '3D version' of the binomial cooficient, with three entries. I worked out a formula for this, but am I the first one to do this? Using this new idea, I found out the number of ways to walk from one corner of an N^3 cube to the other corner of the cube (number of ways to walk to the point (N, N, N) in 3-space. The formula is: (3N)! / ((N!)^3), which is 1680 for the 3x3x3 cube, and 756756 for the 5x5x5 cube, the last number is pretty funny. For a 100x100x100 cube: 376523493564631064367712071965768747782444205128669798396168767743500 485766630075466163294008566118208045715304490994009624725072511252178 400 LoL. I also think I found a new formula for (a + b + c)^n using this idea :). But I am not sure if it's correct.. Have to check it out. Cheers! Joël.

seriously, i can't believe i watched the whole thing.. On 9/17/05, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@...> wrote: > what the HELL was that..... > > On 9/16/05, Bob Burton <bob@...> wrote: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> > > wrote: > > > Wow.... I'm speechless.... > > > > Yeah, me too. > > > > ~ Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -cubekid > -- -cubekid

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Joël van Noort <joel_vn@y...> wrote: > > Using this new idea, I found out the number of ways to walk from one > corner of an N^3 cube to the other corner of the cube (number of > ways to walk to the point (N, N, N) in 3-space. The formula is: > (3N)! / ((N!)^3), which is 1680 for the 3x3x3 cube, and 756756 for > the 5x5x5 cube, the last number is pretty funny. Search for your 756756 here: http://www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/ These days it's impossible to find something new. Sigh... Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > > So there really isn't a 'best' method. Oh yeah?!? Then how come they sell it on ebay all the time?!? Stefan

> Search for your 756756 here: > http://www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/ > > These days it's impossible to find something new. Sigh... > > Stefan Yes, I expected that.. hehe.. But it felt kinda good to find a nice formula by myself :p... QUOTE: "Name: De Bruijn's s(3,n): (3n)!/(n!)^3. Comments: Number of paths of length 3n in an n X n X n grid from (0,0,0) to (n,n,n)." Yeah.. To bad.. If I was the first one, I would have named this: 'Joël's Cube' (instead of "Pascal's Triangle). Lol. Cya!

----- Original Message ----- From: "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 3:23 PM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier Hi! Good idea. Other possibilities are: 10 proven + 20 random + 10 proven or 10/10/10/10 ... and so on. You can´t be serious. The Proven moves are assumed to be known to anyone. Hence you do the inverse of the ten last and are left with 10 +20. Of course, if x is the proven moves and 40-x the non proven, one has to find the optimum for x. I think that even with an x as high as 30, nobody could make use of the fact that he knows the "proven" moves. R ... The technicalities of this is hidden in the code of the scrambling program. Transparent to both the user and solver ;-) Not that i really think the scrambling affects the times all that much really. In competitions it's most important that everyone get same scramble(s) :-) Cheers! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > How about a "stratified" scrambling? > E.g. for the 4x4x4: > Always begin with a proved ten-mover that in highest degree breaks the blocks, followed by a normal random scrambling in 30 moves. > R > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "_jaap" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 10:27 AM > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier > > > > Let me just weigh in here a little. > > > > Ideally, scrambles are long enough that every possible position has a > > nearly equal probability of occurring. There is no way to be totally > > sure of how long this should be, even on a 3x3x3. All we can do is > > take rough guesstimates. > > > > Here is a simplified outline for the 3x3x3 cube. > > The first move of the scramble sequence can be any one of 18 moves. > > For the second and each subsequent move, there are 15 choices (we > > ignore LR=RL for now). This means that there are 18*15^(n-1) > > scrambles of length n. Of course we want this number to exceed the > > total number of positions (43*10^18), so n must be greater than 17.5. > > > > Clearly this is an underestimate, because there are many scramble > > sequences for each position. For the 3x3x3 we use 25 moves, for the > > reasons Ron has stated. I think that this number is still a bit low, > > since I believe that the diameter (i.e. longest optimal solution > > length) is more likely to be 22-23 than 20. Therefore not all > > positions will be nearly equally likely, but in practice that doesn't > > matter - it will be scrambled enough that there is no shortcut to > > solving it. > > > > In the above, we ignored that LR=RL etc. If you take this into > > account, the results are not much different. You get much better > > estimates for the number of positions a few moves away from start, > > but the growth rate is so similar that the scramble length estimates > > are hardly changed (only 1 or 2 moves longer). > > > > Here is a table for all currently available cube sizes: > > > > 2x2x2 : 3.7*10^6 : 9* 6^(n-1) : 8.2 : 11 : 25 > > 3x3x3 : 4.3*10^19 : 18*15^(n-1) : 17.5 : 23?: 25 > > 4x4x4 : 7.4*10^45 : 27*24^(n-1) : 33.2 : ?? : 40 > > 5x5x5 : 2.8*10^74 : 36*33^(n-1) : 49.0 : ?? : 60 > > > > It shows > > - the cube size > > - the number of positions > > - the approximate number of scrambles of length n > > - the length n for which #scrambles>#positions > > - God's Algorithm length > > - competition scramble length > > > > Clearly the 2x2x2 competition scramble length is a bit excessive (but > > easy enough to do in practice), but others seem reasonable. For > > practical reasons there is a smaller safety margin for the higher > > cubes (else we'd use about 50 and 70 moves) but it is long enough > > that there are not likely to be many blocks of pieces left together > > at the end of the scramble. > > > > Anyway, back to the matter at hand. Would such estimates differ if we > > use multi-slice moves instead? I think not. We still have the same > > number of moves to choose from at each step in the scramble, and > > there is still the same number of commutivity relations (such as > > RL=LR or rR=Rr). > > > > I find it interesting to speculate on whether you can use this to > > estimate the God's Algorithm lengths for 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. I would say > > they are possibly about 45 and 65 moves. > > > > Scramblers: > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/ > > Jaap's Puzzle Page: > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/puzzles/ > > > > Jaap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links

Rune, Your posts always confuse me. I can never find what YOU actually posted as opposed to what was already written. :( ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 3:23 PM > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier > > > Hi! > > Good idea. Other possibilities are: > > 10 proven + 20 random + 10 proven > or 10/10/10/10 ... > and so on. > > You can´t be serious. The Proven moves are assumed to be known to anyone. Hence you do the inverse of the ten last and are left with 10 +20. > Of course, if x is the proven moves and 40-x the non proven, one has to find the optimum for x. I think that even with an x as high as 30, nobody could make use of the fact that he knows the "proven" moves. > R > > ... > > The technicalities of this is hidden in the code of the scrambling > program. Transparent to both the user and solver ;-) > > Not that i really think the scrambling affects the times all that > much really. In competitions it's most important that everyone get > same scramble(s) :-) > > Cheers! > > -Per > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström > <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > > How about a "stratified" scrambling? > > E.g. for the 4x4x4: > > Always begin with a proved ten-mover that in highest degree breaks > the blocks, followed by a normal random scrambling in 30 moves. > > R > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "_jaap" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> > > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 10:27 AM > > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made > easier > > > > > > > Let me just weigh in here a little. > > > > > > Ideally, scrambles are long enough that every possible position > has a > > > nearly equal probability of occurring. There is no way to be > totally > > > sure of how long this should be, even on a 3x3x3. All we can do > is > > > take rough guesstimates. > > > > > > Here is a simplified outline for the 3x3x3 cube. > > > The first move of the scramble sequence can be any one of 18 > moves. > > > For the second and each subsequent move, there are 15 choices > (we > > > ignore LR=RL for now). This means that there are 18*15^(n-1) > > > scrambles of length n. Of course we want this number to exceed > the > > > total number of positions (43*10^18), so n must be greater than > 17.5. > > > > > > Clearly this is an underestimate, because there are many > scramble > > > sequences for each position. For the 3x3x3 we use 25 moves, for > the > > > reasons Ron has stated. I think that this number is still a bit > low, > > > since I believe that the diameter (i.e. longest optimal solution > > > length) is more likely to be 22-23 than 20. Therefore not all > > > positions will be nearly equally likely, but in practice that > doesn't > > > matter - it will be scrambled enough that there is no shortcut > to > > > solving it. > > > > > > In the above, we ignored that LR=RL etc. If you take this into > > > account, the results are not much different. You get much better > > > estimates for the number of positions a few moves away from > start, > > > but the growth rate is so similar that the scramble length > estimates > > > are hardly changed (only 1 or 2 moves longer). > > > > > > Here is a table for all currently available cube sizes: > > > > > > 2x2x2 : 3.7*10^6 : 9* 6^(n-1) : 8.2 : 11 : 25 > > > 3x3x3 : 4.3*10^19 : 18*15^(n-1) : 17.5 : 23?: 25 > > > 4x4x4 : 7.4*10^45 : 27*24^(n-1) : 33.2 : ?? : 40 > > > 5x5x5 : 2.8*10^74 : 36*33^(n-1) : 49.0 : ?? : 60 > > > > > > It shows > > > - the cube size > > > - the number of positions > > > - the approximate number of scrambles of length n > > > - the length n for which #scrambles>#positions > > > - God's Algorithm length > > > - competition scramble length > > > > > > Clearly the 2x2x2 competition scramble length is a bit excessive > (but > > > easy enough to do in practice), but others seem reasonable. For > > > practical reasons there is a smaller safety margin for the > higher > > > cubes (else we'd use about 50 and 70 moves) but it is long > enough > > > that there are not likely to be many blocks of pieces left > together > > > at the end of the scramble. > > > > > > Anyway, back to the matter at hand. Would such estimates differ > if we > > > use multi-slice moves instead? I think not. We still have the > same > > > number of moves to choose from at each step in the scramble, and > > > there is still the same number of commutivity relations (such as > > > RL=LR or rR=Rr). > > > > > > I find it interesting to speculate on whether you can use this > to > > > estimate the God's Algorithm lengths for 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. I > would say > > > they are possibly about 45 and 65 moves. > > > > > > Scramblers: > > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/ > > > Jaap's Puzzle Page: > > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/puzzles/ > > > > > > Jaap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" > <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > > > > In competitions it's most important that everyone get > > same scramble(s) :-) > > Why is that important? I also agree it is important, though it is not necessarily essential. There IS such a thing as an easy scramble. For example, most cubers use Fridrich. If a scramble has an obvious cross (ie - 1 or 2 move cross that is obviously the easiest choice) and then each C/E pair results in a connected pair for the next step, it would not be unlikely for most competitors to have the same (short) solution. There are scrambles that are apparently easier than others, so I think it is more fair for competitors to receive the same scramble as other competitors within the round. I also think that competitors should not be able to watch a scramble in which they will have to solve. So, if you are solving the 3x3x3, you should not be able to watch anybody else solve that scramble until you have completed your solve. They did something like this at WC2003, I recall. ~ Bob

Hi Rune! I wasn't joking. Oh i didn't know the "proven" 10 moves were supposed to be publicly known. And even if so, there is 24 cube orientations to start from. In that case, yes it is not good idea to end a scramble with a known sequence, even if the chance of applying it backwards correctly is low :-) Have fun! -Per PS! A computer could by simple analysis generate "proven" sequences randomly. But then why do that analysis on a subsequence only and not the whole scramble? Oh well, maybe this idea about proven sequences is a bit paranoid. Not sure ... Cheers! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 3:23 PM > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier > > > Hi! > > Good idea. Other possibilities are: > > 10 proven + 20 random + 10 proven > or 10/10/10/10 ... > and so on. > > You can´t be serious. The Proven moves are assumed to be known to anyone. Hence you do the inverse of the ten last and are left with 10 +20. > Of course, if x is the proven moves and 40-x the non proven, one has to find the optimum for x. I think that even with an x as high as 30, nobody could make use of the fact that he knows the "proven" moves. > R > > ... > > The technicalities of this is hidden in the code of the scrambling > program. Transparent to both the user and solver ;-) > > Not that i really think the scrambling affects the times all that > much really. In competitions it's most important that everyone get > same scramble(s) :-) > > Cheers! > > -Per > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström > <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > > How about a "stratified" scrambling? > > E.g. for the 4x4x4: > > Always begin with a proved ten-mover that in highest degree breaks > the blocks, followed by a normal random scrambling in 30 moves. > > R > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "_jaap" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> > > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 10:27 AM > > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made > easier > > > > > > > Let me just weigh in here a little. > > > > > > Ideally, scrambles are long enough that every possible position > has a > > > nearly equal probability of occurring. There is no way to be > totally > > > sure of how long this should be, even on a 3x3x3. All we can do > is > > > take rough guesstimates. > > > > > > Here is a simplified outline for the 3x3x3 cube. > > > The first move of the scramble sequence can be any one of 18 > moves. > > > For the second and each subsequent move, there are 15 choices > (we > > > ignore LR=RL for now). This means that there are 18*15^(n-1) > > > scrambles of length n. Of course we want this number to exceed > the > > > total number of positions (43*10^18), so n must be greater than > 17.5. > > > > > > Clearly this is an underestimate, because there are many > scramble > > > sequences for each position. For the 3x3x3 we use 25 moves, for > the > > > reasons Ron has stated. I think that this number is still a bit > low, > > > since I believe that the diameter (i.e. longest optimal solution > > > length) is more likely to be 22-23 than 20. Therefore not all > > > positions will be nearly equally likely, but in practice that > doesn't > > > matter - it will be scrambled enough that there is no shortcut > to > > > solving it. > > > > > > In the above, we ignored that LR=RL etc. If you take this into > > > account, the results are not much different. You get much better > > > estimates for the number of positions a few moves away from > start, > > > but the growth rate is so similar that the scramble length > estimates > > > are hardly changed (only 1 or 2 moves longer). > > > > > > Here is a table for all currently available cube sizes: > > > > > > 2x2x2 : 3.7*10^6 : 9* 6^(n-1) : 8.2 : 11 : 25 > > > 3x3x3 : 4.3*10^19 : 18*15^(n-1) : 17.5 : 23?: 25 > > > 4x4x4 : 7.4*10^45 : 27*24^(n-1) : 33.2 : ?? : 40 > > > 5x5x5 : 2.8*10^74 : 36*33^(n-1) : 49.0 : ?? : 60 > > > > > > It shows > > > - the cube size > > > - the number of positions > > > - the approximate number of scrambles of length n > > > - the length n for which #scrambles>#positions > > > - God's Algorithm length > > > - competition scramble length > > > > > > Clearly the 2x2x2 competition scramble length is a bit excessive > (but > > > easy enough to do in practice), but others seem reasonable. For > > > practical reasons there is a smaller safety margin for the > higher > > > cubes (else we'd use about 50 and 70 moves) but it is long > enough > > > that there are not likely to be many blocks of pieces left > together > > > at the end of the scramble. > > > > > > Anyway, back to the matter at hand. Would such estimates differ > if we > > > use multi-slice moves instead? I think not. We still have the > same > > > number of moves to choose from at each step in the scramble, and > > > there is still the same number of commutivity relations (such as > > > RL=LR or rR=Rr). > > > > > > I find it interesting to speculate on whether you can use this > to > > > estimate the God's Algorithm lengths for 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. I > would say > > > they are possibly about 45 and 65 moves. > > > > > > Scramblers: > > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/ > > > Jaap's Puzzle Page: > > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/puzzles/ > > > > > > Jaap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links

Hi Stefan :-) Then nobody could claim that person X did faster than Y in round z because he had easier scramble and got luckier than others with the cross. Or something like that ... Well i do know u understand this argument actually ;-) Those who don't understand it haven't thought enough ;-) It's just to avoid hindsight discussion/speculation about someone being luckier than others. That's all. From practical point of view maybe it's not too important. I know for sure that some megaminx scrambling in Gütersloh didn't follow the scrambles prescribed on the sheet ... Oh well ... Happy puzzling :-) -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" > <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > > > > In competitions it's most important that everyone get > > same scramble(s) :-) > > Why is that important? > > Stefan

I'll be in the IRC chatroom today. The yahoo one puts a lot of lag on my old old computer. /server irc.irchat.tv /join #rubik Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology

It's basically to prevent unfairness in the competition. Otherwise, the possibility exists, to varying degrees, that someone gets a ridiculously lucky solve or two, and other people have 'hard' solves. It doesn't do "that" much to ensure fairness, but it helps keep the peace of mind. There are of course, disadvantages to this as well. But they can be dealt with. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 17, 2005, at 8:30 AM, Per Kristen Fredlund wrote: > Hi Stefan :-) > > Then nobody could claim that person X did faster than Y in round z > because he had easier scramble and got luckier than others with the > cross. Or something like that ... Well i do know u understand this > argument actually ;-) Those who don't understand it haven't thought > enough ;-) It's just to avoid hindsight discussion/speculation about > someone being luckier than others. That's all. From practical point of > view maybe it's not too important. I know for sure that some megaminx > scrambling in Gütersloh didn't follow the scrambles prescribed on the > sheet ... Oh well ... > > Happy puzzling :-) > > -Per > >> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > <pochmann@g...> wrote: >> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen > Fredlund" >> <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: >>> >>> In competitions it's most important that everyone get >>> same scramble(s) :-) >> >> Why is that important? >> >> Stefan > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

actually, doug reed a while ago created such a program. though i did kinda lose it... :( BUT.. if you can program, just create like an external file with all those 1211 algorithms and then write some code that randomly gives you an algorithm that would actually be kinda cool On 9/17/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den > Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > > so does that exist or not ? > > I think i've seen something like that a while ago, but I can't > remember where :s > > Yes. Go to speedcubing.com, click on "Algorithms", scroll down, click > on "All 1211 last layer algorithms". > > Cheers! > Stefan > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

You'd have to weight the probabilities too. /Lars On Sep 17, 2005, at 8:40, Sapan Upadhyay wrote: > actually, doug reed a while ago created such a program. though i did > kinda lose it... :( > > BUT.. if you can program, just create like an external file with all > those 1211 algorithms and then write some code that randomly gives you > an algorithm > > that would actually be kinda cool > > On 9/17/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@...> wrote: >> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den >> Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: >>> so does that exist or not ? >>> I think i've seen something like that a while ago, but I can't >> remember where :s >> >> Yes. Go to speedcubing.com, click on "Algorithms", scroll down, click >> on "All 1211 last layer algorithms". >> >> Cheers! >> Stefan > - - - - - - - - - - - - "The mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work unless it's open." --- Frank Zappa Lars Petrus - lars@... http://lar5.com

Hey Joel, I know one of my friend managed to build some sort of Pascal Pyramid, and wanted to expand it to an infinitie dimension. (triangle : 2, triangle pyramid : 3, square pyramid : 4,..) If you are interested, I can give you his email address. Gilles.

Mmm, good ideas. I'll try to make one with the 1211 algorithms. I'll give you an update when it's done (or not :p). Thx, Gilles.

Quite a long time ago I wrote a short program using Lars Vandenberghs ImageCube to display a random PLL situation. It's not the entire last layer, but it's some :) It shows only two sides of the cube, but with training that should be enough to know which situation it is. The program should display something like a random U-layer twist, folled by a random PLL, then a random U-layer twist again and finally a random twist of the first two layers. The program is not guaranteed to be bug or error free, and no support may be given :) You find it for the BOY-scheme at http://www.ornen.se/gammal/random.php and for BYO at http://www.ornen.se/gammal/random2.php /Gustav --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@g...> wrote: > actually, doug reed a while ago created such a program. though i did > kinda lose it... :( > > BUT.. if you can program, just create like an external file with all > those 1211 algorithms and then write some code that randomly gives you > an algorithm > > that would actually be kinda cool > > On 9/17/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den > > Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > > > so does that exist or not ? > > > I think i've seen something like that a while ago, but I can't > > remember where :s > > > > Yes. Go to speedcubing.com, click on "Algorithms", scroll down, click > > on "All 1211 last layer algorithms". > > > > Cheers! > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -cubekid

Obviously, Per found :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Burton" <bob@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 5:12 PM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier Rune, Your posts always confuse me. I can never find what YOU actually posted as opposed to what was already written. :( ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 3:23 PM > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier > > > Hi! > > Good idea. Other possibilities are: > > 10 proven + 20 random + 10 proven > or 10/10/10/10 ... > and so on. > > You can´t be serious. The Proven moves are assumed to be known to anyone. Hence you do the inverse of the ten last and are left with 10 +20. > Of course, if x is the proven moves and 40-x the non proven, one has to find the optimum for x. I think that even with an x as high as 30, nobody could make use of the fact that he knows the "proven" moves. > R > > ... > > The technicalities of this is hidden in the code of the scrambling > program. Transparent to both the user and solver ;-) > > Not that i really think the scrambling affects the times all that > much really. In competitions it's most important that everyone get > same scramble(s) :-) > > Cheers! > > -Per > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström > <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > > How about a "stratified" scrambling? > > E.g. for the 4x4x4: > > Always begin with a proved ten-mover that in highest degree breaks > the blocks, followed by a normal random scrambling in 30 moves. > > R > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "_jaap" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> > > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 10:27 AM > > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made > easier > > > > > > > Let me just weigh in here a little. > > > > > > Ideally, scrambles are long enough that every possible position > has a > > > nearly equal probability of occurring. There is no way to be > totally > > > sure of how long this should be, even on a 3x3x3. All we can do > is > > > take rough guesstimates. > > > > > > Here is a simplified outline for the 3x3x3 cube. > > > The first move of the scramble sequence can be any one of 18 > moves. > > > For the second and each subsequent move, there are 15 choices > (we > > > ignore LR=RL for now). This means that there are 18*15^(n-1) > > > scrambles of length n. Of course we want this number to exceed > the > > > total number of positions (43*10^18), so n must be greater than > 17.5. > > > > > > Clearly this is an underestimate, because there are many > scramble > > > sequences for each position. For the 3x3x3 we use 25 moves, for > the > > > reasons Ron has stated. I think that this number is still a bit > low, > > > since I believe that the diameter (i.e. longest optimal solution > > > length) is more likely to be 22-23 than 20. Therefore not all > > > positions will be nearly equally likely, but in practice that > doesn't > > > matter - it will be scrambled enough that there is no shortcut > to > > > solving it. > > > > > > In the above, we ignored that LR=RL etc. If you take this into > > > account, the results are not much different. You get much better > > > estimates for the number of positions a few moves away from > start, > > > but the growth rate is so similar that the scramble length > estimates > > > are hardly changed (only 1 or 2 moves longer). > > > > > > Here is a table for all currently available cube sizes: > > > > > > 2x2x2 : 3.7*10^6 : 9* 6^(n-1) : 8.2 : 11 : 25 > > > 3x3x3 : 4.3*10^19 : 18*15^(n-1) : 17.5 : 23?: 25 > > > 4x4x4 : 7.4*10^45 : 27*24^(n-1) : 33.2 : ?? : 40 > > > 5x5x5 : 2.8*10^74 : 36*33^(n-1) : 49.0 : ?? : 60 > > > > > > It shows > > > - the cube size > > > - the number of positions > > > - the approximate number of scrambles of length n > > > - the length n for which #scrambles>#positions > > > - God's Algorithm length > > > - competition scramble length > > > > > > Clearly the 2x2x2 competition scramble length is a bit excessive > (but > > > easy enough to do in practice), but others seem reasonable. For > > > practical reasons there is a smaller safety margin for the > higher > > > cubes (else we'd use about 50 and 70 moves) but it is long > enough > > > that there are not likely to be many blocks of pieces left > together > > > at the end of the scramble. > > > > > > Anyway, back to the matter at hand. Would such estimates differ > if we > > > use multi-slice moves instead? I think not. We still have the > same > > > number of moves to choose from at each step in the scramble, and > > > there is still the same number of commutivity relations (such as > > > RL=LR or rR=Rr). > > > > > > I find it interesting to speculate on whether you can use this > to > > > estimate the God's Algorithm lengths for 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. I > would say > > > they are possibly about 45 and 65 moves. > > > > > > Scramblers: > > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/ > > > Jaap's Puzzle Page: > > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/puzzles/ > > > > > > Jaap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links

Hehe... I just saw that the BYO-version definately is not error free. Instead it displays the easiest of the OLL situations over and over. If anyone really wants the BYO-version, let me know. Otherwise I'll let it be. /Gustav --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gustav Fredell" <gufr5747@s...> wrote: > Quite a long time ago I wrote a short program using Lars Vandenberghs > ImageCube to display a random PLL situation. It's not the entire last > layer, but it's some :) It shows only two sides of the cube, but with > training that should be enough to know which situation it is. > > The program should display something like a random U-layer twist, > folled by a random PLL, then a random U-layer twist again and finally > a random twist of the first two layers. > > The program is not guaranteed to be bug or error free, and no support > may be given :) > > You find it for the BOY-scheme at > http://www.ornen.se/gammal/random.php and for BYO at > http://www.ornen.se/gammal/random2.php > > /Gustav > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay > <cubekid@g...> wrote: > > actually, doug reed a while ago created such a program. though i did > > kinda lose it... :( > > > > BUT.. if you can program, just create like an external file with all > > those 1211 algorithms and then write some code that randomly gives you > > an algorithm > > > > that would actually be kinda cool > > > > On 9/17/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den > > > Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > > > > so does that exist or not ? > > > > I think i've seen something like that a while ago, but I can't > > > remember where :s > > > > > > Yes. Go to speedcubing.com, click on "Algorithms", scroll down, click > > > on "All 1211 last layer algorithms". > > > > > > Cheers! > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -cubekid

----- Original Message ----- From: "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 5:23 PM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier Hi Rune! I wasn't joking. Oh i didn't know the "proven" 10 moves were supposed to be publicly known. And even if so, there is 24 cube orientations to start from. In that case, yes it is not good idea to end a scramble with a known sequence, even if the chance of applying it backwards correctly is low :-) Yes, and after 10+20 you have got a randomized scrambling and noone can tell, which proved moves would be the best in That situation. R Bob, Clear? Have fun! -Per PS! A computer could by simple analysis generate "proven" sequences randomly. But then why do that analysis on a subsequence only and not the whole scramble? Oh well, maybe this idea about proven sequences is a bit paranoid. Not sure ... Cheers! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 3:23 PM > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier > > > Hi! > > Good idea. Other possibilities are: > > 10 proven + 20 random + 10 proven > or 10/10/10/10 ... > and so on. > > You can´t be serious. The Proven moves are assumed to be known to anyone. Hence you do the inverse of the ten last and are left with 10 +20. > Of course, if x is the proven moves and 40-x the non proven, one has to find the optimum for x. I think that even with an x as high as 30, nobody could make use of the fact that he knows the "proven" moves. > R > > ... > > The technicalities of this is hidden in the code of the scrambling > program. Transparent to both the user and solver ;-) > > Not that i really think the scrambling affects the times all that > much really. In competitions it's most important that everyone get > same scramble(s) :-) > > Cheers! > > -Per > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström > <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > > How about a "stratified" scrambling? > > E.g. for the 4x4x4: > > Always begin with a proved ten-mover that in highest degree breaks > the blocks, followed by a normal random scrambling in 30 moves. > > R > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "_jaap" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> > > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 10:27 AM > > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made > easier > > > > > > > Let me just weigh in here a little. > > > > > > Ideally, scrambles are long enough that every possible position > has a > > > nearly equal probability of occurring. There is no way to be > totally > > > sure of how long this should be, even on a 3x3x3. All we can do > is > > > take rough guesstimates. > > > > > > Here is a simplified outline for the 3x3x3 cube. > > > The first move of the scramble sequence can be any one of 18 > moves. > > > For the second and each subsequent move, there are 15 choices > (we > > > ignore LR=RL for now). This means that there are 18*15^(n-1) > > > scrambles of length n. Of course we want this number to exceed > the > > > total number of positions (43*10^18), so n must be greater than > 17.5. > > > > > > Clearly this is an underestimate, because there are many > scramble > > > sequences for each position. For the 3x3x3 we use 25 moves, for > the > > > reasons Ron has stated. I think that this number is still a bit > low, > > > since I believe that the diameter (i.e. longest optimal solution > > > length) is more likely to be 22-23 than 20. Therefore not all > > > positions will be nearly equally likely, but in practice that > doesn't > > > matter - it will be scrambled enough that there is no shortcut > to > > > solving it. > > > > > > In the above, we ignored that LR=RL etc. If you take this into > > > account, the results are not much different. You get much better > > > estimates for the number of positions a few moves away from > start, > > > but the growth rate is so similar that the scramble length > estimates > > > are hardly changed (only 1 or 2 moves longer). > > > > > > Here is a table for all currently available cube sizes: > > > > > > 2x2x2 : 3.7*10^6 : 9* 6^(n-1) : 8.2 : 11 : 25 > > > 3x3x3 : 4.3*10^19 : 18*15^(n-1) : 17.5 : 23?: 25 > > > 4x4x4 : 7.4*10^45 : 27*24^(n-1) : 33.2 : ?? : 40 > > > 5x5x5 : 2.8*10^74 : 36*33^(n-1) : 49.0 : ?? : 60 > > > > > > It shows > > > - the cube size > > > - the number of positions > > > - the approximate number of scrambles of length n > > > - the length n for which #scrambles>#positions > > > - God's Algorithm length > > > - competition scramble length > > > > > > Clearly the 2x2x2 competition scramble length is a bit excessive > (but > > > easy enough to do in practice), but others seem reasonable. For > > > practical reasons there is a smaller safety margin for the > higher > > > cubes (else we'd use about 50 and 70 moves) but it is long > enough > > > that there are not likely to be many blocks of pieces left > together > > > at the end of the scramble. > > > > > > Anyway, back to the matter at hand. Would such estimates differ > if we > > > use multi-slice moves instead? I think not. We still have the > same > > > number of moves to choose from at each step in the scramble, and > > > there is still the same number of commutivity relations (such as > > > RL=LR or rR=Rr). > > > > > > I find it interesting to speculate on whether you can use this > to > > > estimate the God's Algorithm lengths for 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. I > would say > > > they are possibly about 45 and 65 moves. > > > > > > Scramblers: > > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/ > > > Jaap's Puzzle Page: > > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/puzzles/ > > > > > > Jaap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links

HAHAHAHa thats awesome. On 9/15/05, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@...> wrote: > > actually, i think i have a book very much similar to it... not that > ive ever read it or anything > > On 9/15/05, Chris Hunt <huntca@...> wrote: > > Ha. > > > > -Chris > > > > On 9/15/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@...> wrote: > > > > > > Looking closely at the cube, I get the feeling this solution book must > > > be pretty bad ;-) > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5998515764 > > > > > > Cheers! > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -cubekid > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hehe ... When u reply to my posts Rune i know which part i wrote and which i didn't :-P But seriously, i do manage to find out. If in doubt use the Up thread button ;-) Cheers! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > Obviously, Per found :) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 5:12 PM > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier > > > Rune, > > Your posts always confuse me. I can never find what YOU actually > posted as opposed to what was already written. :( > > ~ Bob > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström > <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> > > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 3:23 PM > > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier > > > > > > Hi! > > > > Good idea. Other possibilities are: > > > > 10 proven + 20 random + 10 proven > > or 10/10/10/10 ... > > and so on. > > > > You can´t be serious. The Proven moves are assumed to be known to > anyone. Hence you do the inverse of the ten last and are left with 10 +20. > > Of course, if x is the proven moves and 40-x the non proven, one has > to find the optimum for x. I think that even with an x as high as 30, > nobody could make use of the fact that he knows the "proven" moves. > > R > > > > ... > > > > The technicalities of this is hidden in the code of the scrambling > > program. Transparent to both the user and solver ;-) > > > > Not that i really think the scrambling affects the times all that > > much really. In competitions it's most important that everyone get > > same scramble(s) :-) > > > > Cheers! > > > > -Per > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström > > <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > > > How about a "stratified" scrambling? > > > E.g. for the 4x4x4: > > > Always begin with a proved ten-mover that in highest degree breaks > > the blocks, followed by a normal random scrambling in 30 moves. > > > R > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "_jaap" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> > > > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 10:27 AM > > > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made > > easier > > > > > > > > > > Let me just weigh in here a little. > > > > > > > > Ideally, scrambles are long enough that every possible position > > has a > > > > nearly equal probability of occurring. There is no way to be > > totally > > > > sure of how long this should be, even on a 3x3x3. All we can do > > is > > > > take rough guesstimates. > > > > > > > > Here is a simplified outline for the 3x3x3 cube. > > > > The first move of the scramble sequence can be any one of 18 > > moves. > > > > For the second and each subsequent move, there are 15 choices > > (we > > > > ignore LR=RL for now). This means that there are 18*15^(n-1) > > > > scrambles of length n. Of course we want this number to exceed > > the > > > > total number of positions (43*10^18), so n must be greater than > > 17.5. > > > > > > > > Clearly this is an underestimate, because there are many > > scramble > > > > sequences for each position. For the 3x3x3 we use 25 moves, for > > the > > > > reasons Ron has stated. I think that this number is still a bit > > low, > > > > since I believe that the diameter (i.e. longest optimal solution > > > > length) is more likely to be 22-23 than 20. Therefore not all > > > > positions will be nearly equally likely, but in practice that > > doesn't > > > > matter - it will be scrambled enough that there is no shortcut > > to > > > > solving it. > > > > > > > > In the above, we ignored that LR=RL etc. If you take this into > > > > account, the results are not much different. You get much better > > > > estimates for the number of positions a few moves away from > > start, > > > > but the growth rate is so similar that the scramble length > > estimates > > > > are hardly changed (only 1 or 2 moves longer). > > > > > > > > Here is a table for all currently available cube sizes: > > > > > > > > 2x2x2 : 3.7*10^6 : 9* 6^(n-1) : 8.2 : 11 : 25 > > > > 3x3x3 : 4.3*10^19 : 18*15^(n-1) : 17.5 : 23?: 25 > > > > 4x4x4 : 7.4*10^45 : 27*24^(n-1) : 33.2 : ?? : 40 > > > > 5x5x5 : 2.8*10^74 : 36*33^(n-1) : 49.0 : ?? : 60 > > > > > > > > It shows > > > > - the cube size > > > > - the number of positions > > > > - the approximate number of scrambles of length n > > > > - the length n for which #scrambles>#positions > > > > - God's Algorithm length > > > > - competition scramble length > > > > > > > > Clearly the 2x2x2 competition scramble length is a bit excessive > > (but > > > > easy enough to do in practice), but others seem reasonable. For > > > > practical reasons there is a smaller safety margin for the > > higher > > > > cubes (else we'd use about 50 and 70 moves) but it is long > > enough > > > > that there are not likely to be many blocks of pieces left > > together > > > > at the end of the scramble. > > > > > > > > Anyway, back to the matter at hand. Would such estimates differ > > if we > > > > use multi-slice moves instead? I think not. We still have the > > same > > > > number of moves to choose from at each step in the scramble, and > > > > there is still the same number of commutivity relations (such as > > > > RL=LR or rR=Rr). > > > > > > > > I find it interesting to speculate on whether you can use this > > to > > > > estimate the God's Algorithm lengths for 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. I > > would say > > > > they are possibly about 45 and 65 moves. > > > > > > > > Scramblers: > > > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/ > > > > Jaap's Puzzle Page: > > > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/puzzles/ > > > > > > > > Jaap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links

Hello Gustav, Could you post the php code here? Coz i am using it many times and i would like it if its hosted on my comp so i get faster responses, also i'll suck up ur bandwidth :) Also I use green as the top layer so im not able to instantly respond. I hope there are no copyright restrictions or such :) Also what are those numbers below each image? Are they related to the PLL algs ? If yes then how do i look up the algos to the numbers, i mean frm which set have u chosen the algs. Sachin. On 9/17/05, Gustav Fredell <gufr5747@...> wrote: > Hehe... I just saw that the BYO-version definately is not error free. > Instead it displays the easiest of the OLL situations over and over. > > If anyone really wants the BYO-version, let me know. Otherwise I'll > let it be. > > /Gustav > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gustav Fredell" > <gufr5747@s...> wrote: > > Quite a long time ago I wrote a short program using Lars Vandenberghs > > ImageCube to display a random PLL situation. It's not the entire last > > layer, but it's some :) It shows only two sides of the cube, but with > > training that should be enough to know which situation it is. > > > > The program should display something like a random U-layer twist, > > folled by a random PLL, then a random U-layer twist again and finally > > a random twist of the first two layers. > > > > The program is not guaranteed to be bug or error free, and no support > > may be given :) > > > > You find it for the BOY-scheme at > > http://www.ornen.se/gammal/random.php and for BYO at > > http://www.ornen.se/gammal/random2.php > > > > /Gustav > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay > > <cubekid@g...> wrote: > > > actually, doug reed a while ago created such a program. though i did > > > kinda lose it... :( > > > > > > BUT.. if you can program, just create like an external file with all > > > those 1211 algorithms and then write some code that randomly gives you > > > an algorithm > > > > > > that would actually be kinda cool > > > > > > On 9/17/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den > > > > Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > > > > > so does that exist or not ? > > > > > I think i've seen something like that a while ago, but I can't > > > > remember where :s > > > > > > > > Yes. Go to speedcubing.com, click on "Algorithms", scroll down, > click > > > > on "All 1211 last layer algorithms". > > > > > > > > Cheers! > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -cubekid > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Hi again! One can easily define what is meant by a "proven" sequence from a random state of the cube for example like this : -A sequence is "proven" if applying it to the current state breaks as many as possible of the given pairs (neighbouring cubies/parts) and at the same doesn't introduce any new pairs with respect to the solved state of the puzzle. I think that's a good enough definition to be functionable. Or at least it's my idea of what it should be :-) With that definition there can be NO universal "proven" sequence which could be applied to any state!! What if the state was simply applying the inverse "proven" sequence to the solved state itself ? :-P This makes me come up with another idea. For a move applied to a random state define the "pair-breaking factor" (pbf) like this : pbf = (pairs broken wrt current state) - (pairs formed wrt solved state) Now for a scramble of given length choose a random move with the highest possible pbf. This is quite feasible to do with a real world scrambling program. Rank all possible next moves wrt pbf's and choose randomly next move from the ones on top of the list. I think this is quite elegant actually :-) Cheers! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 5:23 PM > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made easier > > > Hi Rune! > > I wasn't joking. Oh i didn't know the "proven" 10 moves were > supposed to be publicly known. And even if so, there is 24 cube > orientations to start from. In that case, yes it is not good idea to > end a scramble with a known sequence, even if the chance of applying > it backwards correctly is low :-) > > Yes, and after 10+20 you have got a randomized scrambling and noone can tell, which proved moves would be the best in That situation. > R > > Bob, > Clear? > > Have fun! > > -Per > > PS! A computer could by simple analysis generate "proven" sequences > randomly. But then why do that analysis on a subsequence only and > not the whole scramble? Oh well, maybe this idea about proven > sequences is a bit paranoid. Not sure ... > > Cheers! > > -Per > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström > <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> > > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 3:23 PM > > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made > easier > > > > > > Hi! > > > > Good idea. Other possibilities are: > > > > 10 proven + 20 random + 10 proven > > or 10/10/10/10 ... > > and so on. > > > > You can´t be serious. The Proven moves are assumed to be known to > anyone. Hence you do the inverse of the ten last and are left with > 10 +20. > > Of course, if x is the proven moves and 40-x the non proven, one > has to find the optimum for x. I think that even with an x as high > as 30, nobody could make use of the fact that he knows the "proven" > moves. > > R > > > > ... > > > > The technicalities of this is hidden in the code of the scrambling > > program. Transparent to both the user and solver ;-) > > > > Not that i really think the scrambling affects the times all that > > much really. In competitions it's most important that everyone get > > same scramble(s) :-) > > > > Cheers! > > > > -Per > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström > > <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > > > How about a "stratified" scrambling? > > > E.g. for the 4x4x4: > > > Always begin with a proved ten-mover that in highest degree > breaks > > the blocks, followed by a normal random scrambling in 30 moves. > > > R > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "_jaap" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> > > > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 10:27 AM > > > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 > made > > easier > > > > > > > > > > Let me just weigh in here a little. > > > > > > > > Ideally, scrambles are long enough that every possible > position > > has a > > > > nearly equal probability of occurring. There is no way to be > > totally > > > > sure of how long this should be, even on a 3x3x3. All we can > do > > is > > > > take rough guesstimates. > > > > > > > > Here is a simplified outline for the 3x3x3 cube. > > > > The first move of the scramble sequence can be any one of 18 > > moves. > > > > For the second and each subsequent move, there are 15 choices > > (we > > > > ignore LR=RL for now). This means that there are 18*15^(n-1) > > > > scrambles of length n. Of course we want this number to exceed > > the > > > > total number of positions (43*10^18), so n must be greater > than > > 17.5. > > > > > > > > Clearly this is an underestimate, because there are many > > scramble > > > > sequences for each position. For the 3x3x3 we use 25 moves, > for > > the > > > > reasons Ron has stated. I think that this number is still a > bit > > low, > > > > since I believe that the diameter (i.e. longest optimal > solution > > > > length) is more likely to be 22-23 than 20. Therefore not all > > > > positions will be nearly equally likely, but in practice that > > doesn't > > > > matter - it will be scrambled enough that there is no shortcut > > to > > > > solving it. > > > > > > > > In the above, we ignored that LR=RL etc. If you take this into > > > > account, the results are not much different. You get much > better > > > > estimates for the number of positions a few moves away from > > start, > > > > but the growth rate is so similar that the scramble length > > estimates > > > > are hardly changed (only 1 or 2 moves longer). > > > > > > > > Here is a table for all currently available cube sizes: > > > > > > > > 2x2x2 : 3.7*10^6 : 9* 6^(n-1) : 8.2 : 11 : 25 > > > > 3x3x3 : 4.3*10^19 : 18*15^(n-1) : 17.5 : 23?: 25 > > > > 4x4x4 : 7.4*10^45 : 27*24^(n-1) : 33.2 : ?? : 40 > > > > 5x5x5 : 2.8*10^74 : 36*33^(n-1) : 49.0 : ?? : 60 > > > > > > > > It shows > > > > - the cube size > > > > - the number of positions > > > > - the approximate number of scrambles of length n > > > > - the length n for which #scrambles>#positions > > > > - God's Algorithm length > > > > - competition scramble length > > > > > > > > Clearly the 2x2x2 competition scramble length is a bit > excessive > > (but > > > > easy enough to do in practice), but others seem reasonable. > For > > > > practical reasons there is a smaller safety margin for the > > higher > > > > cubes (else we'd use about 50 and 70 moves) but it is long > > enough > > > > that there are not likely to be many blocks of pieces left > > together > > > > at the end of the scramble. > > > > > > > > Anyway, back to the matter at hand. Would such estimates > differ > > if we > > > > use multi-slice moves instead? I think not. We still have the > > same > > > > number of moves to choose from at each step in the scramble, > and > > > > there is still the same number of commutivity relations (such > as > > > > RL=LR or rR=Rr). > > > > > > > > I find it interesting to speculate on whether you can use this > > to > > > > estimate the God's Algorithm lengths for 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. I > > would say > > > > they are possibly about 45 and 65 moves. > > > > > > > > Scramblers: > > > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/ > > > > Jaap's Puzzle Page: > > > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/puzzles/ > > > > > > > > Jaap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" > > <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > > > > > > In competitions it's most important that everyone get > > > same scramble(s) :-) > > > > Why is that important? > > I also agree it is important, though it is not necessarily essential. > There IS such a thing as an easy scramble. Just a clarification beforehand: I believe it's not important and I am not joking. As long as we both have valid scrambles (e.g. generated by Jaap's program) everything is fine. There's no reason we must have the same scramble. Why do you always fear that my scramble might be easier? It could also be *your* scramble that's easier! And I certainly would not complain (unless yours is easier because someone purposely made it so) . Also, some organizers ask people how to hold the cube while scrambling. That influences the scramble. Some people even have weird color schemes so it's not even possible to give the "same scramble". That influences the scramble. People use different methods. That influences their "difficulty" of a scramble. Even using the same method, people use different styles and different algorithms, leading to different solutions even for the "same scramble". That influences their "difficulty" of a scramble. The concept of "same scramble" and particularly the implication "same scramble means same difficulty" are flawed ideas! There's good reason the winner is not determined by average and not single solve (if time permits). Single times and single time records are meaningless anyway (except Rubik's Magic because it's always the same, and for larger puzzles like 5x5 or Megaminx it's a little less meaningless). Btw, in order to have a fair comparison to Macky, I hereby request that next tournament I get the same scramble he got for his world record. Otherwise it's not fair. Right? Stefan

LOL someone paid $8 for it!! Have fun with those two edge pieces.... Lesson: Solution book + unsolved cube = something is wrong. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Parth Upadhyay <parth.upadhyay@g...> wrote: > HAHAHAHa thats awesome. > > > On 9/15/05, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@g...> wrote: > > > > actually, i think i have a book very much similar to it... not that > > ive ever read it or anything > > > > On 9/15/05, Chris Hunt <huntca@g...> wrote: > > > Ha. > > > > > > -Chris > > > > > > On 9/15/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Looking closely at the cube, I get the feeling this solution book must > > > > be pretty bad ;-) > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5998515764 > > > > > > > > Cheers! > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -cubekid > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi again! One could in this fashion also not define beforehand what the scramble length should be, but stop when all possible next moves have same pair-braking factor (pbf). Umm, actually that wouldn't quite work. Each first move will have same pbf at least on the cubes ;-) But i think it does make sense after the first move though. Anyone has any more thoughts on this ? -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > Hi again! > > One can easily define what is meant by a "proven" sequence from a > random state of the cube for example like this : > > -A sequence is "proven" if applying it to the current state breaks > as many as possible of the given pairs (neighbouring cubies/parts) > and at the same doesn't introduce any new pairs with respect to the > solved state of the puzzle. > > I think that's a good enough definition to be functionable. Or at > least it's my idea of what it should be :-) > > With that definition there can be NO universal "proven" sequence > which could be applied to any state!! What if the state was simply > applying the inverse "proven" sequence to the solved state > itself ? :-P > > This makes me come up with another idea. For a move applied to a > random state define the "pair-breaking factor" (pbf) like this : > > pbf = (pairs broken wrt current state) - (pairs formed wrt solved > state) > > Now for a scramble of given length choose a random move with the > highest possible pbf. This is quite feasible to do with a real world > scrambling program. Rank all possible next moves wrt pbf's and > choose randomly next move from the ones on top of the list. I think > this is quite elegant actually :-) > > > Cheers! > > -Per > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström > <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> > > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 5:23 PM > > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 made > easier > > > > > > Hi Rune! > > > > I wasn't joking. Oh i didn't know the "proven" 10 moves were > > supposed to be publicly known. And even if so, there is 24 cube > > orientations to start from. In that case, yes it is not good idea > to > > end a scramble with a known sequence, even if the chance of > applying > > it backwards correctly is low :-) > > > > Yes, and after 10+20 you have got a randomized scrambling and > noone can tell, which proved moves would be the best in That > situation. > > R > > > > Bob, > > Clear? > > > > Have fun! > > > > -Per > > > > PS! A computer could by simple analysis generate "proven" > sequences > > randomly. But then why do that analysis on a subsequence only and > > not the whole scramble? Oh well, maybe this idea about proven > > sequences is a bit paranoid. Not sure ... > > > > Cheers! > > > > -Per > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström > > <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> > > > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 3:23 PM > > > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 > made > > easier > > > > > > > > > Hi! > > > > > > Good idea. Other possibilities are: > > > > > > 10 proven + 20 random + 10 proven > > > or 10/10/10/10 ... > > > and so on. > > > > > > You can´t be serious. The Proven moves are assumed to be known > to > > anyone. Hence you do the inverse of the ten last and are left with > > 10 +20. > > > Of course, if x is the proven moves and 40-x the non proven, one > > has to find the optimum for x. I think that even with an x as high > > as 30, nobody could make use of the fact that he knows > the "proven" > > moves. > > > R > > > > > > ... > > > > > > The technicalities of this is hidden in the code of the > scrambling > > > program. Transparent to both the user and solver ;-) > > > > > > Not that i really think the scrambling affects the times all > that > > > much really. In competitions it's most important that everyone > get > > > same scramble(s) :-) > > > > > > Cheers! > > > > > > -Per > > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Rune Wesström > > > <rune.wesstrom@h...> wrote: > > > > How about a "stratified" scrambling? > > > > E.g. for the 4x4x4: > > > > Always begin with a proved ten-mover that in highest degree > > breaks > > > the blocks, followed by a normal random scrambling in 30 moves. > > > > R > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "_jaap" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> > > > > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 10:27 AM > > > > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Scrambling 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 > > made > > > easier > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me just weigh in here a little. > > > > > > > > > > Ideally, scrambles are long enough that every possible > > position > > > has a > > > > > nearly equal probability of occurring. There is no way to be > > > totally > > > > > sure of how long this should be, even on a 3x3x3. All we can > > do > > > is > > > > > take rough guesstimates. > > > > > > > > > > Here is a simplified outline for the 3x3x3 cube. > > > > > The first move of the scramble sequence can be any one of 18 > > > moves. > > > > > For the second and each subsequent move, there are 15 > choices > > > (we > > > > > ignore LR=RL for now). This means that there are 18*15^(n- 1) > > > > > scrambles of length n. Of course we want this number to > exceed > > > the > > > > > total number of positions (43*10^18), so n must be greater > > than > > > 17.5. > > > > > > > > > > Clearly this is an underestimate, because there are many > > > scramble > > > > > sequences for each position. For the 3x3x3 we use 25 moves, > > for > > > the > > > > > reasons Ron has stated. I think that this number is still a > > bit > > > low, > > > > > since I believe that the diameter (i.e. longest optimal > > solution > > > > > length) is more likely to be 22-23 than 20. Therefore not > all > > > > > positions will be nearly equally likely, but in practice > that > > > doesn't > > > > > matter - it will be scrambled enough that there is no > shortcut > > > to > > > > > solving it. > > > > > > > > > > In the above, we ignored that LR=RL etc. If you take this > into > > > > > account, the results are not much different. You get much > > better > > > > > estimates for the number of positions a few moves away from > > > start, > > > > > but the growth rate is so similar that the scramble length > > > estimates > > > > > are hardly changed (only 1 or 2 moves longer). > > > > > > > > > > Here is a table for all currently available cube sizes: > > > > > > > > > > 2x2x2 : 3.7*10^6 : 9* 6^(n-1) : 8.2 : 11 : 25 > > > > > 3x3x3 : 4.3*10^19 : 18*15^(n-1) : 17.5 : 23?: 25 > > > > > 4x4x4 : 7.4*10^45 : 27*24^(n-1) : 33.2 : ?? : 40 > > > > > 5x5x5 : 2.8*10^74 : 36*33^(n-1) : 49.0 : ?? : 60 > > > > > > > > > > It shows > > > > > - the cube size > > > > > - the number of positions > > > > > - the approximate number of scrambles of length n > > > > > - the length n for which #scrambles>#positions > > > > > - God's Algorithm length > > > > > - competition scramble length > > > > > > > > > > Clearly the 2x2x2 competition scramble length is a bit > > excessive > > > (but > > > > > easy enough to do in practice), but others seem reasonable. > > For > > > > > practical reasons there is a smaller safety margin for the > > > higher > > > > > cubes (else we'd use about 50 and 70 moves) but it is long > > > enough > > > > > that there are not likely to be many blocks of pieces left > > > together > > > > > at the end of the scramble. > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, back to the matter at hand. Would such estimates > > differ > > > if we > > > > > use multi-slice moves instead? I think not. We still have > the > > > same > > > > > number of moves to choose from at each step in the scramble, > > and > > > > > there is still the same number of commutivity relations > (such > > as > > > > > RL=LR or rR=Rr). > > > > > > > > > > I find it interesting to speculate on whether you can use > this > > > to > > > > > estimate the God's Algorithm lengths for 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. I > > > would say > > > > > they are possibly about 45 and 65 moves. > > > > > > > > > > Scramblers: > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/ > > > > > Jaap's Puzzle Page: > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/puzzles/ > > > > > > > > > > Jaap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links

> Btw, in order to have a fair comparison to Macky, I hereby request > that next tournament I get the same scramble he got for his world > record. Otherwise it's not fair. Right? > > Stefan Well, several ppl already had same scramble as Macky had for his world record. (Assuming that is in fact so ...) Why repeat the scramble? ;-) I know that person Z wouldn't become champion because of a single "lucky" scramble. But it could be a world record solve nevertheless with a scramble that noone else had. Again one could say that a person not making it to the final might have set world record with a scramble from the final round. But this again is a bit paranoid ;-) -Per

okay, the script is nearly done the only thing is that I'll have to enter manually every case well, at least it'll be done :)

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > > Anyone has any more thoughts on this ? Reminds me of how I scramble my Megaminx. I tried Jaap's scramble generator but it takes me 3-4 minutes to scramble that way. So instead I scramble freely for 40 seconds, first trying to break all pairs. After about 15-20 seconds usually it looks well scrambled. Then until second 35 I scramble a bit faster, still watching and trying to break pairs when I see them. Last 5 seconds I don't look because I don't want it unnaturally hard, either ;-). Overall it's a bit more than 100 moves usually so I'm happy enough with it. Cheers! Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > > Well, several ppl already had same scramble as Macky had for his world > record. (Assuming that is in fact so ...) Why repeat the scramble? ; -) Because I was not among those people and I want the same chance! (btw, this part of my message of course violated the "not joking" introduction, I hope that was clear ;-) > I know that person Z wouldn't become champion because of a > single "lucky" scramble. But it could be a world record solve > nevertheless with a scramble that noone else had. So what? Example: Had Daniel broken my Megaminx record in Dallas, it would've been pretty much that situation. Since his "competitors" there don't really count, Daniel would have gotten a world record solve with a scramble that noone else (who counts) had or ever will get again. Would I complain? Certainly not. Cheers! Stefan P.S. Sooner or later someone will get a lucky let's say 8 second 3x3 world record. I hope sooner, then we can stop the single record part of this discussion...

> > I know that person Z wouldn't become champion because of a > > single "lucky" scramble. But it could be a world record solve > > nevertheless with a scramble that noone else had. > > So what? Well, i think official competitions should be a little more "serious" than setting UWR's at home where noone else has a chance to repeat ur scrambles. It's not a crime to think otherwise. I just don't agree. Both ways of thinking are reasonable :-) -Per

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > Example: Had Daniel broken my Megaminx record in Dallas, it would've > been pretty much that situation. Since his "competitors" there don't > really count, Daniel would have gotten a world record solve with a > scramble that noone else (who counts) had or ever will get again. > Would I complain? Certainly not. I don't count. :( **sniff sniff** ~ Bob

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Joël van Noort <joel_vn@y...> wrote: > Hey guys, > > I was wondering something about maths, and this is a place where > lots of mathmaticians come... So I guess I can post it here. > > I was wondering if there is something like a threedimensional > version of the Pascal Triangle? The numbers in the pascal triangle > represent the number of ways you can walk to that point from the top > of the triangle. But you can also do something like this in > threespace... For example, you can work out a formula for the number > of ways to walk from the origin to the point (x,y,z) (with x,y,z > Natural numbers), if you can use x+y+z 'steps', and you can choose > to walk one 'unit' in the x, y or z direction during each step. That > way, it's possible to define a new '3D version' of the binomial > cooficient, with three entries. I worked out a formula for this, but > am I the first one to do this? > > Using this new idea, I found out the number of ways to walk from one > corner of an N^3 cube to the other corner of the cube (number of > ways to walk to the point (N, N, N) in 3-space. The formula is: > (3N)! / ((N!)^3), which is 1680 for the 3x3x3 cube, and 756756 for > the 5x5x5 cube, the last number is pretty funny. For a 100x100x100 > cube: > > 376523493564631064367712071965768747782444205128669798396168767743500 > 485766630075466163294008566118208045715304490994009624725072511252178 > 400 > > LoL. > > I also think I found a new formula for (a + b + c)^n using this > idea :). But I am not sure if it's correct.. Have to check it out. The online encyclopaedia of integer sequences has already been pointed out so I'll just mention the last bit on (a+b+c)^n. You can expand that using the multinomial theorem: (x_1+...+x_k)^n =sum (n;i_1,...,i_k)x_1^{i_1}...x_k^{i_k} where the sum is over k-tuples of non-negative integers (i_1,...,i_k) such that i_1+...+i_k=n and where (n;i_1,...,i_k) is the multinomial coefficient (n!)/(i_1!...i_k!) (that's not the standard notation for the multinomial coefficient). Note that if some i_j=0 then that i_j can be omitted from the notation (as 0!=1). Technically 0^0 isn't defined so you'd need to assume none of x_1,...,x_k,x_1+...+x_k is 0. Formally if we assume anything that looks like 0^0=1 then everything works out in that case too. It's fairly straightforward to prove this by induction - it's trivially true if n=0. Each i_j must be 0 so the right hand side has just one summand. The LHS=1 and the RHS=1^k=1. If n=m+1 by induction (x_1+...+x_k)^n=(x_1+...+x_k)*sum (m;i_1,...,i_k)x_1^{i_1}...x_k^{i_k} (in the sum the i_js sum to m). Each term will have degree multidegree n being a product of a monomial of degree 1 and a monomial off degree n.. Consider the coefficient of x_{a_1}^{s_{a_1}}...x_{a_l}^{s_{a_l}} - we can assume that each s_{a_j}>0 as the monomial has multidegree n. (The set {a_1,...,a_l} might not be the full set {1...,k}.) Te sum of the s_{a_i}s is n. Write s_{a_j}=t_{a_j}+1 and c=s_{a_1}...s_{a_l}. The coefficient is then just (m;t_{a_1},s_{a_2},...,s_{a_l})+(m; s_{a_1},t_{a_2},s_{a_3},...,s_{a_l})+...+(m;s_{a_1},..,s_{a_{l-1}},t_{a_l}) That's because you'll have a contribution to the coefficient from x_{a_j}*sum (m;i_1,...,i_k)x_1^{i_1}...x_k^{i_k}. (the contribution comes from the summand involving the monomial with i_k=0 unless k=a_j in which case i_k=t_{a_j} or k=a_r (r not j) when i_k=s_{a_r}. So the coeficient will be the sum of (m;t_{a_1},s_{a_2},...,s_{a_l}), (m;s_{a_1},t_{a_2},s_{a_3},...,s_{a_l}),...,(m;s_{a_1},s_{a_2},...,s_{a_(l-1)},t_{a_l}), That's m!/(t_{a_1}!...t_{a_l}!) * [s_{a_1}/c+s_{a_2}/c+...+s_{a_l}/c] =m!/(t_{a_1}!...t_{a_l}!) * [s_{a_1}+s_{a_2}+...+s_{a_l}]/c =m!/(t_{a_1}!...t_{a_l}!) * [n]/c =n!/(s_{a_1}!...s_{a_l}!) as required. > > Cheers! > > Joël.

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > > Example: Had Daniel broken my Megaminx record in Dallas, it would've > > been pretty much that situation. Since his "competitors" there don't > > really count, Daniel would have gotten a world record solve with a > > scramble that noone else (who counts) had or ever will get again. > > Would I complain? Certainly not. > > I don't count. :( **sniff sniff** > > ~ Bob Yeah, sorry... only people who have a chance to break the record count ;-) Thus, looking at the stats, I'd say Daniel was the only one. I wanted a real world example but you can also imagine a top cuber "competing" against nine "dummies" (just to make it official). That would also be a case where if he breaks the record he's effectively the only one who got that scramble. Stefan

Heh, I wasn't offended. That was the first time I solved a megaminx fast enough that the stackmat didn't shut off before I finished. :P ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> > wrote: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > > <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > > > > Example: Had Daniel broken my Megaminx record in Dallas, it > would've > > > been pretty much that situation. Since his "competitors" there > don't > > > really count, Daniel would have gotten a world record solve with a > > > scramble that noone else (who counts) had or ever will get again. > > > Would I complain? Certainly not. > > > > I don't count. :( **sniff sniff** > > > > ~ Bob > > Yeah, sorry... only people who have a chance to break the record count > ;-) Thus, looking at the stats, I'd say Daniel was the only one. > > I wanted a real world example but you can also imagine a top cuber > "competing" against nine "dummies" (just to make it official). That > would also be a case where if he breaks the record he's effectively > the only one who got that scramble. > > Stefan

Okay. When you don't have a scrambler handy, you just scramble at "random" right? I did that today at the bank. I scrambled my cube and then solved it. I finished the solve and scrambled again. I noticed the cross looked the same, but I continued anyway. It was the same cross, the pairs appeared to be falling into place exactly the same way, and I was just waiting for the OLL to come so that I could believe it was a different scramble. Same OLL. I couldn't believe that. I did the OLL and got the same PLL too! Somehow, I managed to scramble a cube "randomly" and solve it exactly the same way, twice in a row! It's weird because I do a lot of slices when I scramble. But to copy a scramble exactly?!? Crazy odds. ~ Bob

Not that weird. It happens to me all the time. I think subconciuosly, when we think we're scrambling randomly, our hands tend to do the same kind of moves when we're not actively thinking about the scramble. I manage to do it all the time and it makes me kind of angry. Actually, a long time ago, I used to not scramble well at all. Sometimes I'd scramble the cube, and then when I looked down it would be solved, because unknowingly, I'd just repeat the same scrambling sequence over and over again. -Ben. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> wrote: > Okay. When you don't have a scrambler handy, you just scramble at > "random" right? I did that today at the bank. I scrambled my cube > and then solved it. I finished the solve and scrambled again. I > noticed the cross looked the same, but I continued anyway. It was the > same cross, the pairs appeared to be falling into place exactly the > same way, and I was just waiting for the OLL to come so that I could > believe it was a different scramble. Same OLL. I couldn't believe > that. I did the OLL and got the same PLL too! Somehow, I managed to > scramble a cube "randomly" and solve it exactly the same way, twice in > a row! It's weird because I do a lot of slices when I scramble. But > to copy a scramble exactly?!? Crazy odds. > > ~ Bob

Interesting alg, but the very last u should be a u' I think. Here's something I would have improvised if I see the situation: M(Uu)M' (R'L'F2RLF)^2 M'(Uu)'M It's a lot shorter... :) -Doug --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, GameOfDeath2 <no_reply@y...> wrote: > It's been a long time since I looked at a 5x5x5 - I'm not sure I could solve one > now as the strings are long to remember so I can't remember the algorithms > mostly and I can't think of the way I meant to do the original problem. > > I don't think in terms of commutators (I've never consciously thought that I > would use a commutator - Ron showed me some time at Schiphol but I > couldn't get my head round it and I forgot about it before I had caught the > plane - he was too fast!) and I certainly don't know the difference between M, > E and S but for instance this conjugate of a commutator could be used to do 2 > 4-cycles (on the F and R faces). (That's not exactly what was required but the > last time I looked at a 5x5x5 was August 2004 and so I can't remember all the > techniques to solve the thing.) > > uF2u'FR > r'u'dru2d2r'u'drF2r'ud'ru2d2r'ud'rF2 > R'F'uF2u

I just did a one-handed average of 100. My arm is tired. Best solve: 35.06 seconds [PB is 35.05 :'(] Worst solve: 1:23.99 (ew!) Overall avg: 47.53 seconds (plenty of 60+s near the end!) Best RA: 42.97 seconds 40.82 48.29 42.41 40.49 (58.02) 38.06 57.49 40.80 (35.06) 46.67 38.57 36.10 I wish that 57.xx wasn't counting. It bumps the average up almost 2 seconds! :( ~ Bob

Wow Dang! 100 average, that would really hurt my arm :P Usually i stop after roughly 30 solves, my hand hurt. my best average of 10 now is 32.xx hmm should i try 100 average :-O Latez! --- Bob Burton <bob@...> wrote: > I just did a one-handed average of 100. My arm is > tired. > > Best solve: 35.06 seconds [PB is 35.05 :'(] > Worst solve: 1:23.99 (ew!) > Overall avg: 47.53 seconds (plenty of 60+s near the > end!) > Best RA: 42.97 seconds > 40.82 48.29 42.41 40.49 (58.02) 38.06 57.49 40.80 > (35.06) 46.67 38.57 > 36.10 > I wish that 57.xx wasn't counting. It bumps the > average up almost 2 > seconds! :( > > ~ Bob > > > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com

I know I'm not one of the top one-handers. But, it builds stamina! :D +~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, lwin kyawkyaw <lkyawkyaw@y...> wrote: > Wow Dang! > > 100 average, that would really hurt my arm :P > > Usually i stop after roughly 30 solves, my hand hurt. > > my best average of 10 now is 32.xx > > hmm should i try 100 average :-O > > Latez! > > --- Bob Burton <bob@c...> wrote: > > > I just did a one-handed average of 100. My arm is > > tired. > > > > Best solve: 35.06 seconds [PB is 35.05 :'(] > > Worst solve: 1:23.99 (ew!) > > Overall avg: 47.53 seconds (plenty of 60+s near the > > end!) > > Best RA: 42.97 seconds > > 40.82 48.29 42.41 40.49 (58.02) 38.06 57.49 40.80 > > (35.06) 46.67 38.57 > > 36.10 > > I wish that 57.xx wasn't counting. It bumps the > > average up almost 2 > > seconds! :( > > > > ~ Bob > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com

The code is up at http://www.ornen.se/gammal/random.txt . Use it and change it freely for your own. I take no responsibilities for sloppy coding and you might not understand everything. Feel free to contact me about it, but I might not understand what I've done anymore either :) Yes, each number correspond to a specific alg. Which one and why I chose it that way I've forgotten :) Feel free to find that out or just change the numbering to something you like. Since the program uses ImageCube, you need to have that installed somewhere too. The path to ImageCube is at the very bottom of the code. You can find ImageCube on Lars homepage: www.cubezone.be To change color scheme, you have to change: $top $g $r $b $o I think i wrote it so that the "default" is BOY with yellow on top, Blue-F and Red-R If you have BOY-scheme and finish with green on top, I guess one of the four combinations would be (this one with Red-F) : $top="ggggggggg" $g="o"; $r="w"; $b="r"; $o="y"; /Gustav Sachin Shirwalkar skrev: >Hello Gustav, >Could you post the php code here? Coz i am using it many times and i >would like it if its hosted on my comp so i get faster responses, also >i'll suck up ur bandwidth :) Also I use green as the top layer so im >not able to instantly respond. I hope there are no copyright >restrictions or such :) > >Also what are those numbers below each image? Are they related to the >PLL algs ? If yes then how do i look up the algos to the numbers, i >mean frm which set have u chosen the algs. >Sachin. > > > >On 9/17/05, Gustav Fredell <gufr5747@...> wrote: > > >>Hehe... I just saw that the BYO-version definately is not error free. >>Instead it displays the easiest of the OLL situations over and over. >> >>If anyone really wants the BYO-version, let me know. Otherwise I'll >>let it be. >> >>/Gustav >> >>--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gustav Fredell" >><gufr5747@s...> wrote: >> >> >>>Quite a long time ago I wrote a short program using Lars Vandenberghs >>>ImageCube to display a random PLL situation. It's not the entire last >>>layer, but it's some :) It shows only two sides of the cube, but with >>>training that should be enough to know which situation it is. >>> >>>The program should display something like a random U-layer twist, >>>folled by a random PLL, then a random U-layer twist again and finally >>>a random twist of the first two layers. >>> >>>The program is not guaranteed to be bug or error free, and no support >>>may be given :) >>> >>>You find it for the BOY-scheme at >>>http://www.ornen.se/gammal/random.php and for BYO at >>>http://www.ornen.se/gammal/random2.php >>> >>>/Gustav >>> >>>--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay >>><cubekid@g...> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>actually, doug reed a while ago created such a program. though i did >>>>kinda lose it... :( >>>> >>>>BUT.. if you can program, just create like an external file with all >>>>those 1211 algorithms and then write some code that randomly gives you >>>>an algorithm >>>> >>>>that would actually be kinda cool >>>> >>>>On 9/17/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@g...> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den >>>>>Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>so does that exist or not ? >>>>>>I think i've seen something like that a while ago, but I can't >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>remember where :s >>>>> >>>>>Yes. Go to speedcubing.com, click on "Algorithms", scroll down, >>>>> >>>>> >>click >> >> >>>>>on "All 1211 last layer algorithms". >>>>> >>>>>Cheers! >>>>>Stefan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>-- >>>>-cubekid >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1.1219 (20050916) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.nod32.com > > > > >

Copies of the workbook are in the files section of the Caltech yahoo groups and can also be downloaded at this link: http://www.astro.caltech.edu/~tmao/Northern%20CA%202005%20Workbook.xls If you competed in the competition, please check over your times and alert me if something looks funny. I am proof reading and getting ready to submit the final workbook after I read over the Idaho times. If you didn't compete, have fun looking at our competition! Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology P.S. I think Lars had a new revolutionary timing method.

Thank you very much. I'll check it out soon. Sachin On 9/18/05, Gustav Fredell <gufr5747@...> wrote: > The code is up at http://www.ornen.se/gammal/random.txt . Use it and > change it freely for your own. > > I take no responsibilities for sloppy coding and you might not > understand everything. Feel free to contact me about it, but I might not > understand what I've done anymore either :) > > Yes, each number correspond to a specific alg. Which one and why I chose > it that way I've forgotten :) Feel free to find that out or just change > the numbering to something you like. > > Since the program uses ImageCube, you need to have that installed > somewhere too. The path to ImageCube is at the very bottom of the code. > You can find ImageCube on Lars homepage: www.cubezone.be > > To change color scheme, you have to change: > > $top > $g > $r > $b > $o > > I think i wrote it so that the "default" is BOY with yellow on top, > Blue-F and Red-R > > If you have BOY-scheme and finish with green on top, I guess one of the > four combinations would be (this one with Red-F) : > > $top="ggggggggg" > $g="o"; > $r="w"; > $b="r"; > $o="y"; > > /Gustav > > Sachin Shirwalkar skrev: > > >Hello Gustav, > >Could you post the php code here? Coz i am using it many times and i > >would like it if its hosted on my comp so i get faster responses, also > >i'll suck up ur bandwidth :) Also I use green as the top layer so im > >not able to instantly respond. I hope there are no copyright > >restrictions or such :) > > > >Also what are those numbers below each image? Are they related to the > >PLL algs ? If yes then how do i look up the algos to the numbers, i > >mean frm which set have u chosen the algs. > >Sachin. > > > > > > > >On 9/17/05, Gustav Fredell <gufr5747@...> wrote: > > > > > >>Hehe... I just saw that the BYO-version definately is not error free. > >>Instead it displays the easiest of the OLL situations over and over. > >> > >>If anyone really wants the BYO-version, let me know. Otherwise I'll > >>let it be. > >> > >>/Gustav > >> > >>--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gustav Fredell" > >><gufr5747@s...> wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Quite a long time ago I wrote a short program using Lars Vandenberghs > >>>ImageCube to display a random PLL situation. It's not the entire last > >>>layer, but it's some :) It shows only two sides of the cube, but with > >>>training that should be enough to know which situation it is. > >>> > >>>The program should display something like a random U-layer twist, > >>>folled by a random PLL, then a random U-layer twist again and finally > >>>a random twist of the first two layers. > >>> > >>>The program is not guaranteed to be bug or error free, and no support > >>>may be given :) > >>> > >>>You find it for the BOY-scheme at > >>>http://www.ornen.se/gammal/random.php and for BYO at > >>>http://www.ornen.se/gammal/random2.php > >>> > >>>/Gustav > >>> > >>>--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay > >>><cubekid@g...> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>>actually, doug reed a while ago created such a program. though i did > >>>>kinda lose it... :( > >>>> > >>>>BUT.. if you can program, just create like an external file with all > >>>>those 1211 algorithms and then write some code that randomly gives you > >>>>an algorithm > >>>> > >>>>that would actually be kinda cool > >>>> > >>>>On 9/17/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@g...> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den > >>>>>Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>so does that exist or not ? > >>>>>>I think i've seen something like that a while ago, but I can't > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>remember where :s > >>>>> > >>>>>Yes. Go to speedcubing.com, click on "Algorithms", scroll down, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>click > >> > >> > >>>>>on "All 1211 last layer algorithms". > >>>>> > >>>>>Cheers! > >>>>>Stefan > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>-cubekid > >>>> > >>>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1.1219 (20050916) Information __________ > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > >http://www.nod32.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, d_funny007 <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Interesting alg, but the very last u should be a u' I think. Yes. > > Here's something I would have improvised if I see the situation: > > M(Uu)M' > (R'L'F2RLF)^2 > M'(Uu)'M > > It's a lot shorter... :) Then I'd have to remember what M means! Additionally I'd have to remember two algorithms which is too much; I don't think I know more than one algorithm for any given situation (except possibly PLL for double transposition of opposite edges). Also it takes a while to shift the mouse from R to L (especially on bigger cubes). These days I don't have a decent mouse anyway and I don't cube so I guess I'll not be able to test your algorithm. What does M mean anyway, particularly in the large cube scenario? > > -Doug > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, GameOfDeath2 > <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > It's been a long time since I looked at a 5x5x5 - I'm not sure I > could solve one > > now as the strings are long to remember so I can't remember the > algorithms > > mostly and I can't think of the way I meant to do the original > problem. > > > > I don't think in terms of commutators (I've never consciously > thought that I > > would use a commutator - Ron showed me some time at Schiphol but I > > couldn't get my head round it and I forgot about it before I had > caught the > > plane - he was too fast!) and I certainly don't know the > difference between M, > > E and S but for instance this conjugate of a commutator could be > used to do 2 > > 4-cycles (on the F and R faces). (That's not exactly what was > required but the > > last time I looked at a 5x5x5 was August 2004 and so I can't > remember all the > > techniques to solve the thing.) > > > > uF2u'FR > > r'u'dru2d2r'u'drF2r'ud'ru2d2r'ud'rF2 > > R'F'uF2u

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > > If you competed in the competition, please check over your times and > alert me if something looks funny. I didn't compete but... shouldn't your 1:58.32 blindsolve be marked as world record? > P.S. I think Lars had a new revolutionary timing method. Oh c'mon, you can't mention it and then keep it secret ;-) Cheers! Stefan

Yep, it happenned to me too. and I noticed that there some triggers I always do when I scramble randomly. So I just have to do them in the same order to have the same scramble :) 2005/9/18, Ben King <grsbmd@...>: > Not that weird. It happens to me all the time. I think subconciuosly, > when we think we're scrambling randomly, our hands tend to do the same > kind of moves when we're not actively thinking about the scramble. I > manage to do it all the time and it makes me kind of angry. > > Actually, a long time ago, I used to not scramble well at all. > Sometimes I'd scramble the cube, and then when I looked down it would > be solved, because unknowingly, I'd just repeat the same scrambling > sequence over and over again. > > -Ben. > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> > wrote: > > Okay. When you don't have a scrambler handy, you just scramble at > > "random" right? I did that today at the bank. I scrambled my cube > > and then solved it. I finished the solve and scrambled again. I > > noticed the cross looked the same, but I continued anyway. It was the > > same cross, the pairs appeared to be falling into place exactly the > > same way, and I was just waiting for the OLL to come so that I could > > believe it was a different scramble. Same OLL. I couldn't believe > > that. I did the OLL and got the same PLL too! Somehow, I managed to > > scramble a cube "randomly" and solve it exactly the same way, twice in > > a row! It's weird because I do a lot of slices when I scramble. But > > to copy a scramble exactly?!? Crazy odds. > > > > ~ Bob > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

What are you guys using to to view http://www.pizazz.info/pizazz.mov I've downloaded it and I only get the visual, no sound. I was using Windows Media Player 10. Jasmine http://speedcuber.blogspot.com --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@g...> wrote: > seriously, i can't believe i watched the whole thing.. > > On 9/17/05, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@g...> wrote: > > what the HELL was that..... > > > > On 9/16/05, Bob Burton <bob@c...> wrote: > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> > > > wrote: > > > > Wow.... I'm speechless.... > > > > > > Yeah, me too. > > > > > > ~ Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -cubekid > > > > > -- > -cubekid

Hi jasmine. The movie is a quicktime movie. Get the quicktime player and you can view the file. But believe me you dont want to see this thing :) Sachin. On 9/18/05, jasmine_ellen <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > What are you guys using to to view http://www.pizazz.info/pizazz.mov > > I've downloaded it and I only get the visual, no sound. I was using > Windows Media Player 10. > > Jasmine > http://speedcuber.blogspot.com > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay > <cubekid@g...> wrote: > > seriously, i can't believe i watched the whole thing.. > > > > On 9/17/05, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@g...> wrote: > > > what the HELL was that..... > > > > > > On 9/16/05, Bob Burton <bob@c...> wrote: > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw > <no_reply@y...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Wow.... I'm speechless.... > > > > > > > > Yeah, me too. > > > > > > > > ~ Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -cubekid > > > > > > > > > -- > > -cubekid > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

mad props dude... mad props... On 9/18/05, Bob Burton <bob@...> wrote: > I know I'm not one of the top one-handers. But, it builds stamina! :D > > +~ Bob > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, lwin kyawkyaw > <lkyawkyaw@y...> wrote: > > Wow Dang! > > > > 100 average, that would really hurt my arm :P > > > > Usually i stop after roughly 30 solves, my hand hurt. > > > > my best average of 10 now is 32.xx > > > > hmm should i try 100 average :-O > > > > Latez! > > > > --- Bob Burton <bob@c...> wrote: > > > > > I just did a one-handed average of 100. My arm is > > > tired. > > > > > > Best solve: 35.06 seconds [PB is 35.05 :'(] > > > Worst solve: 1:23.99 (ew!) > > > Overall avg: 47.53 seconds (plenty of 60+s near the > > > end!) > > > Best RA: 42.97 seconds > > > 40.82 48.29 42.41 40.49 (58.02) 38.06 57.49 40.80 > > > (35.06) 46.67 38.57 > > > 36.10 > > > I wish that 57.xx wasn't counting. It bumps the > > > average up almost 2 > > > seconds! :( > > > > > > ~ Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

yea, strangely whenever i scramble randomly, the cross is insanely hard... and its never really easy... hmm... On 9/18/05, Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@...> wrote: > Yep, it happenned to me too. and I noticed that there some triggers I > always do when I scramble randomly. > So I just have to do them in the same order to have the same scramble :) > > 2005/9/18, Ben King <grsbmd@...>: > > Not that weird. It happens to me all the time. I think subconciuosly, > > when we think we're scrambling randomly, our hands tend to do the same > > kind of moves when we're not actively thinking about the scramble. I > > manage to do it all the time and it makes me kind of angry. > > > > Actually, a long time ago, I used to not scramble well at all. > > Sometimes I'd scramble the cube, and then when I looked down it would > > be solved, because unknowingly, I'd just repeat the same scrambling > > sequence over and over again. > > > > -Ben. > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> > > wrote: > > > Okay. When you don't have a scrambler handy, you just scramble at > > > "random" right? I did that today at the bank. I scrambled my cube > > > and then solved it. I finished the solve and scrambled again. I > > > noticed the cross looked the same, but I continued anyway. It was the > > > same cross, the pairs appeared to be falling into place exactly the > > > same way, and I was just waiting for the OLL to come so that I could > > > believe it was a different scramble. Same OLL. I couldn't believe > > > that. I did the OLL and got the same PLL too! Somehow, I managed to > > > scramble a cube "randomly" and solve it exactly the same way, twice in > > > a row! It's weird because I do a lot of slices when I scramble. But > > > to copy a scramble exactly?!? Crazy odds. > > > > > > ~ Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

I know there are lots of little sequences of moves that I repeat by habit when scrambling. For example, at the moment I almost always start a scramble with L2 B2. If I'm actually timing and doing an average then I'll always use a scramble generator so I can be confident that they are valid scrambles and not too similar to the previous scrambles. I remember ages ago someone (Lars P?) saying that sometimes what he does when scrambling is to scramble a bit, then toss the cube in the air then scramble some more. This seems like a good idea since it avoids the problem of creating the same/similar scrambled states if you (even subconsciously) use the same/similar paths or finger tricks when scrambling. Unless, of course, you catch the cube in exactly the same position as it had been when it left your hands. Jasmine http://speedcuber.blogspot.com --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@g...> wrote: > yea, strangely whenever i scramble randomly, the cross is insanely > hard... and its never really easy... hmm... > > On 9/18/05, Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > > Yep, it happenned to me too. and I noticed that there some triggers I > > always do when I scramble randomly. > > So I just have to do them in the same order to have the same scramble :) > > > > 2005/9/18, Ben King <grsbmd@y...>: > > > Not that weird. It happens to me all the time. I think subconciuosly, > > > when we think we're scrambling randomly, our hands tend to do the same > > > kind of moves when we're not actively thinking about the scramble. I > > > manage to do it all the time and it makes me kind of angry. > > > > > > Actually, a long time ago, I used to not scramble well at all. > > > Sometimes I'd scramble the cube, and then when I looked down it would > > > be solved, because unknowingly, I'd just repeat the same scrambling > > > sequence over and over again. > > > > > > -Ben. > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> > > > wrote: > > > > Okay. When you don't have a scrambler handy, you just scramble at > > > > "random" right? I did that today at the bank. I scrambled my cube > > > > and then solved it. I finished the solve and scrambled again. I > > > > noticed the cross looked the same, but I continued anyway. It was the > > > > same cross, the pairs appeared to be falling into place exactly the > > > > same way, and I was just waiting for the OLL to come so that I could > > > > believe it was a different scramble. Same OLL. I couldn't believe > > > > that. I did the OLL and got the same PLL too! Somehow, I managed to > > > > scramble a cube "randomly" and solve it exactly the same way, twice in > > > > a row! It's weird because I do a lot of slices when I scramble. But > > > > to copy a scramble exactly?!? Crazy odds. > > > > > > > > ~ Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -cubekid

> What does M mean anyway, particularly in the large cube scenario? Hey Richard, I don't think there has ever been an official declaration of big cube notation, but I belive so far that this version has been the most accepted. The faces are denoted by the same letters as usual, lowercase means faces behind the outermost ones. Numbers in brackets declare how far back. So from left to right the faces are: L l[1] l[2] l[3] ... l[k] ... l[floor((n-2)/2)] r[floor((n-2)/2)] ... r[k] ... r[3] r[2] r[1] R That doesn't leave any space for the middlemost slice on odd nxnxn cubes though, so we denote that slice M so in general: L l[1] l[2] l[3] ... l[k] ... l[floor((n-2)/2)] M(if the cube is odd) r[floor((n-2)/2)] ... r[k] ... r[3] r[2] r[1] R So the other faces would be: U u[1] u[2] u[3] ... u[k] ... u[floor((n-2)/2)] E(if the cube is odd) d[floor((n-2)/2)] ... d[k] ... d[3] d[2] d[1] D and F f[1] f[2] f[3] ... f[k] ... f[floor((n-2)/2)] S(if the cube is odd) b[floor((n-2)/2)] ... b[k] ... b[3] b[2] b[1] B Basically M is between L and R, E is between U and D, and S is between F and B. The turning directions are as M=L, E=D, S=F I just remember that the acronym LDF goes with MES respectively to remember how to turn. Someone correct me if that is not the accepted notation for nxnxn cubes, but as far as I know that was correct. Also the MES stuff is correct for the 5x5x5 cube and 3x3x3 cube now. Chris

Okay, so I just downloaded and installed QuickTime... and holy cow, that video is SO BAD! Jasmine http://speedcuber.blogspot.com --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@g...> wrote: > Hi jasmine. The movie is a quicktime movie. Get the quicktime player > and you can view the file. > > But believe me you dont want to see this thing :) > > Sachin. > > On 9/18/05, jasmine_ellen <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > What are you guys using to to view http://www.pizazz.info/pizazz.mov > > > > I've downloaded it and I only get the visual, no sound. I was using > > Windows Media Player 10. > > > > Jasmine > > http://speedcuber.blogspot.com > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay > > <cubekid@g...> wrote: > > > seriously, i can't believe i watched the whole thing.. > > > > > > On 9/17/05, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@g...> wrote: > > > > what the HELL was that..... > > > > > > > > On 9/16/05, Bob Burton <bob@c...> wrote: > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw > > <no_reply@y...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Wow.... I'm speechless.... > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, me too. > > > > > > > > > > ~ Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > -cubekid > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -cubekid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Hey guys! I haven't really been involved with cubing much for the last couple of years, but don't think I've quit for good! I've been doing a lot of work on my new site, which has even more cool F2L tricks. I'll also finally show all of my PLL algorithms which I hand picked from cube algorithm generators utilizing 2 and 3 faces only. Anyway, I live like an hour away from Orlando now so I'm psyched about going to the World Championship. Maybe I can finish in the top 50, but since I stopped cubing my previous best average of 24.96 went from like 40th to 100th now :( That is a good sign for our community though! Well, I'll let you know the progress of the new site (I know I promised on like, uh, last March :() and I can't wait to see some of you at the WC! —›NathanChristie

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, jasmine_ellen <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > What are you guys using to to view http://www.pizazz.info/pizazz.mov > > I've downloaded it and I only get the visual, no sound. Lucky you!!! Stefan

Wow! 1:58 for BLD...congratz Tyson! Tyson Mao <tmao@...> escreveu:Copies of the workbook are in the files section of the Caltech yahoo groups and can also be downloaded at this link: http://www.astro.caltech.edu/~tmao/Northern%20CA%202005%20Workbook.xls If you competed in the competition, please check over your times and alert me if something looks funny. I am proof reading and getting ready to submit the final workbook after I read over the Idaho times. If you didn't compete, have fun looking at our competition! Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology P.S. I think Lars had a new revolutionary timing method. SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Novo Yahoo! Messenger com voz: ligações, Yahoo! Avatars, novos emoticons e muito mais. Instale agora! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey guys, Now, this woman should really try solving the cube with her feet :): http://www.spikedhumor.com/Article.aspx?id=2435 - Joël.

I haven't had time to go through and mark thins yet. Mark is usually the marker. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 18, 2005, at 5:21 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > wrote: >> >> If you competed in the competition, please check over your times and >> alert me if something looks funny. > > I didn't compete but... shouldn't your 1:58.32 blindsolve be marked as > world record? > >> P.S. I think Lars had a new revolutionary timing method. > > Oh c'mon, you can't mention it and then keep it secret ;-) > > Cheers! > Stefan > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > I haven't had time to go through and mark thins yet. Mark is usually > the marker. That actually is very logical. :) ~ Bob

wow... simply amazing... On 9/18/05, Joël van Noort <joel_vn@...> wrote: > Hey guys, > > Now, this woman should really try solving the cube with her feet :): > > http://www.spikedhumor.com/Article.aspx?id=2435 > > - Joël. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

On Sep 18, 2005, at 5:21, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > wrote: > >> P.S. I think Lars had a new revolutionary timing method. > > Oh c'mon, you can't mention it and then keep it secret ;-) I call it the Dickens method: "I do the best of times and the worst of times". To summarize, I ranged from 16 to 49 seconds... I screwed up a LOT of LL algs, and had a few pops. Not sure why. And I seem to have beaten a Swedish and a European record during all that chaos. - - - - - - - - - - - - "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -- George Bernard Shaw Lars Petrus - lars@... http://lar5.com

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Lars Petrus <lars@n...> wrote: > On Sep 18, 2005, at 5:21, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i.. .> > > wrote: > > > >> P.S. I think Lars had a new revolutionary timing method. > > > > Oh c'mon, you can't mention it and then keep it secret ;-) > > I call it the Dickens method: "I do the best of times and the worst of > times". > > To summarize, I ranged from 16 to 49 seconds... I screwed up a LOT of > LL algs, and had a few pops. Not sure why. > > And I seem to have beaten a Swedish and a European record during all > that chaos. Oohhh, ok... to me it sounded like you invented yet another timing device. Btw, I just saw that according to rubiks.com "Rubik's fans are applauding the all new release of the custom designed RUBIK'S TIMER.". Hmm... no, I won't comment this. They also say it computes averages of 10, does it not support other lenghts? Cheers! Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Lars Petrus <lars@n...> wrote: > I call it the Dickens method: "I do the best of times and the worst of > times". Haha! Very clever! :) ~ Bob

Oh, actually, now I remember what Tyson is talking about. The new iPod Nano has has a stop watch function that is ideal for cubing. Due to his loyalty to the WCA, Tyson has been fighting hard for that weird Stackmat, but faced with this superior and cool looking timer even he had to concede it needs to go. I know he was relieved to not have keep up this hopeless struggle anymore. It's still unclear if WCA regulations can be changed fully in time for the WC, but it's probably best for everyone to order a Nano and start practicing as soon as possible. /Lars On Sep 18, 2005, at 11:35, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > > Oohhh, ok... to me it sounded like you invented yet another timing > device. > - - - - - - - - - - - - "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." --- Terry Pratchett Lars Petrus - lars@... http://lar5.com

Ummmm... in the 4x4x4, you spelled my last name wrong. Alan Chang --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Copies of the workbook are in the files section of the Caltech yahoo > groups and can also be downloaded at this link: > > http://www.astro.caltech.edu/~tmao/Northern%20CA%202005%20Workbook.xls > > If you competed in the competition, please check over your times and > alert me if something looks funny. I am proof reading and getting > ready to submit the final workbook after I read over the Idaho times. > > If you didn't compete, have fun looking at our competition! > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > P.S. I think Lars had a new revolutionary timing method.

I was at a cafe this weekend with some friends and had been cubing on and off during the afternoon. The cube was sitting scrambled on the table when a guy walked past and claimed that he could "solve it really fast". The guy really didn't have a speedcuber vibe about him. I don't even know what this means, but I immediately felt that he wasn't a speedcuber. Anyway, the conversation went like this... Anonymous guy (pointing to the scrambled cube): I can solve that really fast. Me (getting a distinctly non-cubey vibe from the guy): Really. How fast? Anonymous guy: Um. How many sides? Me (thinking if he's asking about 'how many sides' then it's almost certain that he can't solve the whole cube): All of them. Anonymous guy: Um. <paused, looking slightly embarrassed now> Maybe 6 minutes? Me: I can do it a lot faster than that. Anonymous guy: How fast? Me: About 30 seconds. Anonymous guy (looking slightly embarrassed): Oh. <walks away...> My friend who'd been sitting next to me during this exchange: You sure showed him!! I think maybe he was just trying to show off and since most non-cubers would be impressed (at least a little) by watching someone solve 1 side, he thought he'd get away with it. He obviously wasn't expecting to encounter a real speedcuber! :) To be fair though, I think we all know that the probability of encountering a girl who is also a ~30s solver is extremely low! Jasmine http://speedcuber.blogpsot.com

Nice! Yeah I love it when someone sees one (and it's not yours) and they start talking random crap. In relation to people discussing the cube, I cringe whenever I hear the words: "side," "cheat," and whenever "pull" "sticker" "off" are close to each other. So he just walked away?! He didn't even ask to see you solve it. I guess at that point he was just so embarassed. Maybe it'll give him something to shoot for. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, jasmine_ellen <no_reply@y...> wrote: > I was at a cafe this weekend with some friends and had been cubing on > and off during the afternoon. The cube was sitting scrambled on the > table when a guy walked past and claimed that he could "solve it > really fast". > > The guy really didn't have a speedcuber vibe about him. I don't even > know what this means, but I immediately felt that he wasn't a > speedcuber. Anyway, the conversation went like this... > > Anonymous guy (pointing to the scrambled cube): I can solve that > really fast. > Me (getting a distinctly non-cubey vibe from the guy): Really. How fast? > Anonymous guy: Um. How many sides? > Me (thinking if he's asking about 'how many sides' then it's almost > certain that he can't solve the whole cube): All of them. > Anonymous guy: Um. <paused, looking slightly embarrassed now> Maybe 6 > minutes? > Me: I can do it a lot faster than that. > Anonymous guy: How fast? > Me: About 30 seconds. > Anonymous guy (looking slightly embarrassed): Oh. <walks away...> > My friend who'd been sitting next to me during this exchange: You sure > showed him!! > > I think maybe he was just trying to show off and since most non- cubers > would be impressed (at least a little) by watching someone solve 1 > side, he thought he'd get away with it. He obviously wasn't expecting > to encounter a real speedcuber! :) > > To be fair though, I think we all know that the probability of > encountering a girl who is also a ~30s solver is extremely low! > > Jasmine > http://speedcuber.blogpsot.com

Worse than hearing people say they used to peel off the stickers is someone actually trying it. On your good cube. This happened to me at a dorm party a few weeks ago - the guy who's party it was made the kid bow down and apologize to the cube in front of everyone. Bryan Mytko bryanosaurus@... On Sep 18, 2005, at 4:22 PM, N8 wrote: > Nice! Yeah I love it when someone sees one (and it's not yours) and > they start talking random crap. In relation to people discussing the > cube, I cringe whenever I hear the words: "side," "cheat," and > whenever "pull" "sticker" "off" are close to each other. So he just > walked away?! He didn't even ask to see you solve it. I guess at that > point he was just so embarassed. Maybe it'll give him something to > shoot for. > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, jasmine_ellen > <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > I was at a cafe this weekend with some friends and had been cubing > on > > and off during the afternoon. The cube was sitting scrambled on the > > table when a guy walked past and claimed that he could "solve it > > really fast". > > > > The guy really didn't have a speedcuber vibe about him. I don't even > > know what this means, but I immediately felt that he wasn't a > > speedcuber. Anyway, the conversation went like this... > > > > Anonymous guy (pointing to the scrambled cube): I can solve that > > really fast. > > Me (getting a distinctly non-cubey vibe from the guy): Really. How > fast? > > Anonymous guy: Um. How many sides? > > Me (thinking if he's asking about 'how many sides' then it's almost > > certain that he can't solve the whole cube): All of them. > > Anonymous guy: Um. <paused, looking slightly embarrassed now> Maybe > 6 > > minutes? > > Me: I can do it a lot faster than that. > > Anonymous guy: How fast? > > Me: About 30 seconds. > > Anonymous guy (looking slightly embarrassed): Oh. <walks away...> > > My friend who'd been sitting next to me during this exchange: You > sure > > showed him!! > > > > I think maybe he was just trying to show off and since most non- > cubers > > would be impressed (at least a little) by watching someone solve 1 > > side, he thought he'd get away with it. He obviously wasn't > expecting > > to encounter a real speedcuber! :) > > > > To be fair though, I think we all know that the probability of > > encountering a girl who is also a ~30s solver is extremely low! > > > > Jasmine > > http://speedcuber.blogpsot.com > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle > Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jasmine - I clicked the link in your signature and it took me to a church website... I think it's because you spelled 'blogspot' as 'blogpsot' Bryan Mytko bryanosaurus@... On Sep 18, 2005, at 3:46 PM, jasmine_ellen wrote: > I was at a cafe this weekend with some friends and had been cubing on > and off during the afternoon. The cube was sitting scrambled on the > table when a guy walked past and claimed that he could "solve it > really fast". > > The guy really didn't have a speedcuber vibe about him. I don't even > know what this means, but I immediately felt that he wasn't a > speedcuber. Anyway, the conversation went like this... > > Anonymous guy (pointing to the scrambled cube): I can solve that > really fast. > Me (getting a distinctly non-cubey vibe from the guy): Really. How > fast? > Anonymous guy: Um. How many sides? > Me (thinking if he's asking about 'how many sides' then it's almost > certain that he can't solve the whole cube): All of them. > Anonymous guy: Um. <paused, looking slightly embarrassed now> Maybe 6 > minutes? > Me: I can do it a lot faster than that. > Anonymous guy: How fast? > Me: About 30 seconds. > Anonymous guy (looking slightly embarrassed): Oh. <walks away...> > My friend who'd been sitting next to me during this exchange: You sure > showed him!! > > I think maybe he was just trying to show off and since most non-cubers > would be impressed (at least a little) by watching someone solve 1 > side, he thought he'd get away with it. He obviously wasn't expecting > to encounter a real speedcuber! :) > > To be fair though, I think we all know that the probability of > encountering a girl who is also a ~30s solver is extremely low! > > Jasmine > http://speedcuber.blogpsot.com > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dearie me. What a silly typo I made. Weird that it went to a church website though. I would have expected it to go to a 'page cannot be found' error. Jasmine http://speedcuber.blogspot.com --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Bryan Mytko <bmytko@o...> wrote: > Jasmine - I clicked the link in your signature and it took me to a > church website... I think it's because you spelled 'blogspot' as > 'blogpsot' > > > > Bryan Mytko > bryanosaurus@b... > > > On Sep 18, 2005, at 3:46 PM, jasmine_ellen wrote: > > > I was at a cafe this weekend with some friends and had been cubing on > > and off during the afternoon. The cube was sitting scrambled on the > > table when a guy walked past and claimed that he could "solve it > > really fast". > > > > The guy really didn't have a speedcuber vibe about him. I don't even > > know what this means, but I immediately felt that he wasn't a > > speedcuber. Anyway, the conversation went like this... > > > > Anonymous guy (pointing to the scrambled cube): I can solve that > > really fast. > > Me (getting a distinctly non-cubey vibe from the guy): Really. How > > fast? > > Anonymous guy: Um. How many sides? > > Me (thinking if he's asking about 'how many sides' then it's almost > > certain that he can't solve the whole cube): All of them. > > Anonymous guy: Um. <paused, looking slightly embarrassed now> Maybe 6 > > minutes? > > Me: I can do it a lot faster than that. > > Anonymous guy: How fast? > > Me: About 30 seconds. > > Anonymous guy (looking slightly embarrassed): Oh. <walks away...> > > My friend who'd been sitting next to me during this exchange: You sure > > showed him!! > > > > I think maybe he was just trying to show off and since most non-cubers > > would be impressed (at least a little) by watching someone solve 1 > > side, he thought he'd get away with it. He obviously wasn't expecting > > to encounter a real speedcuber! :) > > > > To be fair though, I think we all know that the probability of > > encountering a girl who is also a ~30s solver is extremely low! > > > > Jasmine > > http://speedcuber.blogpsot.com > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yeah, he didn't ask me to prove my claim of 'about 30 seconds'. I was a bit surprised about this too. Jasmine http://speedcuber.blogspot.com --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "N8" <collegenathan@y...> wrote: > Nice! Yeah I love it when someone sees one (and it's not yours) and > they start talking random crap. In relation to people discussing the > cube, I cringe whenever I hear the words: "side," "cheat," and > whenever "pull" "sticker" "off" are close to each other. So he just > walked away?! He didn't even ask to see you solve it. I guess at that > point he was just so embarassed. Maybe it'll give him something to > shoot for. > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, jasmine_ellen > <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > I was at a cafe this weekend with some friends and had been cubing > on > > and off during the afternoon. The cube was sitting scrambled on the > > table when a guy walked past and claimed that he could "solve it > > really fast". > > > > The guy really didn't have a speedcuber vibe about him. I don't even > > know what this means, but I immediately felt that he wasn't a > > speedcuber. Anyway, the conversation went like this... > > > > Anonymous guy (pointing to the scrambled cube): I can solve that > > really fast. > > Me (getting a distinctly non-cubey vibe from the guy): Really. How > fast? > > Anonymous guy: Um. How many sides? > > Me (thinking if he's asking about 'how many sides' then it's almost > > certain that he can't solve the whole cube): All of them. > > Anonymous guy: Um. <paused, looking slightly embarrassed now> Maybe > 6 > > minutes? > > Me: I can do it a lot faster than that. > > Anonymous guy: How fast? > > Me: About 30 seconds. > > Anonymous guy (looking slightly embarrassed): Oh. <walks away...> > > My friend who'd been sitting next to me during this exchange: You > sure > > showed him!! > > > > I think maybe he was just trying to show off and since most non- > cubers > > would be impressed (at least a little) by watching someone solve 1 > > side, he thought he'd get away with it. He obviously wasn't > expecting > > to encounter a real speedcuber! :) > > > > To be fair though, I think we all know that the probability of > > encountering a girl who is also a ~30s solver is extremely low! > > > > Jasmine > > http://speedcuber.blogpsot.com

All -- I would like to say "Thank You!" to Tyson for all his hard work setting up and running the NorCal tournament. I had a blast and recorded some great personal times. Tyson's WR blindfold solve was very impressive and well-deserved, especially for someone who puts so much time into cubing tournaments and cubing publicity. Thanks, Tyson! yeff --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Copies of the workbook are in the files section of the Caltech yahoo > groups and can also be downloaded at this link: > > http://www.astro.caltech.edu/~tmao/Northern%20CA%202005% 20Workbook.xls > > If you competed in the competition, please check over your times and > alert me if something looks funny. I am proof reading and getting > ready to submit the final workbook after I read over the Idaho times. > > If you didn't compete, have fun looking at our competition! > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > P.S. I think Lars had a new revolutionary timing method.

That's terrible! At least you can resticker though. It's better than someone stealing or breaking your speedcube. :/ As I was getting a non-cubey vibe from the guy, I wasn't about to handover my best speedcube and ask him to prove his claim. If he'd sounded a bit more confident and didn't ask me how many 'sides' then I would have asked him what his method was. If he'd 'talked the talk' so-to-speak, then I probably would have handed over my cube and asked him to show me. Jasmine http://speedcuber.blogspot.com --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Bryan Mytko <bmytko@o...> wrote: > Worse than hearing people say they used to peel off the stickers is > someone actually trying it. On your good cube. > This happened to me at a dorm party a few weeks ago - the guy who's > party it was made the kid bow down and apologize to the cube in front > of everyone. > > > Bryan Mytko > bryanosaurus@b... > > > On Sep 18, 2005, at 4:22 PM, N8 wrote: > > > Nice! Yeah I love it when someone sees one (and it's not yours) and > > they start talking random crap. In relation to people discussing the > > cube, I cringe whenever I hear the words: "side," "cheat," and > > whenever "pull" "sticker" "off" are close to each other. So he just > > walked away?! He didn't even ask to see you solve it. I guess at that > > point he was just so embarassed. Maybe it'll give him something to > > shoot for. > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, jasmine_ellen > > <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > > I was at a cafe this weekend with some friends and had been cubing > > on > > > and off during the afternoon. The cube was sitting scrambled on the > > > table when a guy walked past and claimed that he could "solve it > > > really fast". > > > > > > The guy really didn't have a speedcuber vibe about him. I don't even > > > know what this means, but I immediately felt that he wasn't a > > > speedcuber. Anyway, the conversation went like this... > > > > > > Anonymous guy (pointing to the scrambled cube): I can solve that > > > really fast. > > > Me (getting a distinctly non-cubey vibe from the guy): Really. How > > fast? > > > Anonymous guy: Um. How many sides? > > > Me (thinking if he's asking about 'how many sides' then it's almost > > > certain that he can't solve the whole cube): All of them. > > > Anonymous guy: Um. <paused, looking slightly embarrassed now> Maybe > > 6 > > > minutes? > > > Me: I can do it a lot faster than that. > > > Anonymous guy: How fast? > > > Me: About 30 seconds. > > > Anonymous guy (looking slightly embarrassed): Oh. <walks away...> > > > My friend who'd been sitting next to me during this exchange: You > > sure > > > showed him!! > > > > > > I think maybe he was just trying to show off and since most non- > > cubers > > > would be impressed (at least a little) by watching someone solve 1 > > > side, he thought he'd get away with it. He obviously wasn't > > expecting > > > to encounter a real speedcuber! :) > > > > > > To be fair though, I think we all know that the probability of > > > encountering a girl who is also a ~30s solver is extremely low! > > > > > > Jasmine > > > http://speedcuber.blogpsot.com > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle > > Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree. it has NOTHING to do with the best method. Somebody's idea of a VERY SICK joke. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sachin Shirwalkar To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] the best method? Hi jasmine. The movie is a quicktime movie. Get the quicktime player and you can view the file. But believe me you dont want to see this thing :) Sachin. On 9/18/05, jasmine_ellen <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > What are you guys using to to view http://www.pizazz.info/pizazz.mov > > I've downloaded it and I only get the visual, no sound. I was using > Windows Media Player 10. > > Jasmine > http://speedcuber.blogspot.com > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay > <cubekid@g...> wrote: > > seriously, i can't believe i watched the whole thing.. > > > > On 9/17/05, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@g...> wrote: > > > what the HELL was that..... > > > > > > On 9/16/05, Bob Burton <bob@c...> wrote: > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw > <no_reply@y...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Wow.... I'm speechless.... > > > > > > > > Yeah, me too. > > > > > > > > ~ Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -cubekid > > > > > > > > > -- > > -cubekid > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.astro.caltech.edu/~tmao/NCal_Idaho_Scrambles/ In the words of Mark, enjoy. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology

Wow, that's really awesome. Great to hear from you again. I remember when I was starting to cube, my brother and I would be watching your videos and we were thinking, wow, that's a good speed cube. The whole F2L style was also really cool... and the OLL and PLL. Glad to finally hear from you! Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 18, 2005, at 7:39 AM, N8 wrote: > Hey guys! I haven't really been involved with cubing much for the last > couple of years, but don't think I've quit for good! I've been doing a > lot of work on my new site, which has even more cool F2L tricks. I'll > also finally show all of my PLL algorithms which I hand picked from > cube algorithm generators utilizing 2 and 3 faces only. Anyway, I live > like an hour away from Orlando now so I'm psyched about going to the > World Championship. Maybe I can finish in the top 50, but since I > stopped cubing my previous best average of 24.96 went from like 40th to > 100th now :( That is a good sign for our community though! Well, I'll > let you know the progress of the new site (I know I promised on like, > uh, last March :() and I can't wait to see some of you at the WC! > > —›NathanChristie

Hmmm.... this cubie vibe thing has got me thinking... Perhaps it should be deamed cubedar? I've experienced similar non-cuber essence from people claiming cube talent, the cubedar has yet to fail me though! -Daniel

Big thanks to all who helped bring an official tournament to Idaho! I know Frank in particular put a lot of effort in to this event, and I'm sure he had lots of help. Thanks also to the cubers who traveled to get here, especially Chris Hunt and his brother who mastered the magic just in the 'nick' of time. It really should be referred to as the Northwestern tournament-- there were cubers from Seattle, Tacoma, Moscow [Idaho] and various other parts of Idaho. two personal observations about this event: first, it shows you don't have to go to California or NY if you want to attend an official event--just come to Idaho next time! or, if you're willing to put forth the effort, host one where you are. Second, you don't have to be sub-20 to go and compete and have fun at these events. From my perspective anyway, cubing is more about competing against your own times. We had cubers of all skill and time ranges, and it made for a good event. thanks again all! --Kirk

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, jasmine_ellen <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > Yeah, he didn't ask me to prove my claim of 'about 30 seconds'. I was > a bit surprised about this too. > > Jasmine Maybe he can really do it and thinks he's fast and is just sick of those stupid liars who claim they can do it much faster which he believes is impossible so *he* thought *he* is the real cuber and *you* are not and went away because of that. Cheers! Stefan

> To be fair though, I think we all know that the probability of > encountering a girl who is also a ~30s solver is extremely low! It would have been awesome if you could've grabbed Jessica Fridrich, Shelly Chang and that Casey girl...and done a 'gang solve' on him. I bet he would have fainted.

lol On 9/18/05, Lars Petrus <lars@...> wrote: > Oh, actually, now I remember what Tyson is talking about. > > The new iPod Nano has has a stop watch function that is ideal for > cubing. Due to his loyalty to the WCA, Tyson has been fighting hard for > that weird Stackmat, but faced with this superior and cool looking > timer even he had to concede it needs to go. I know he was relieved to > not have keep up this hopeless struggle anymore. > > It's still unclear if WCA regulations can be changed fully in time for > the WC, but it's probably best for everyone to order a Nano and start > practicing as soon as possible. > > /Lars > > On Sep 18, 2005, at 11:35, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > > > > Oohhh, ok... to me it sounded like you invented yet another timing > > device. > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - > "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, > and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." > --- Terry Pratchett > > Lars Petrus - lars@... http://lar5.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

are their any cool patterns to the 3x3x3 cube beside the one where you do half turn on all sides

hey, just got home from the Idaho Tournament, it was a blast!! I didn't compete in the 5x5 though for two reasons... 1. I suck at the 5x5 2. mine is broken. it's broken because one of the orange corner-center pieces kind of snapped off. so, I can still use it, because the little part that hooks into the cube is still there, but the actualy face is gone, so it's like a little hole in the orange side. I was wondering...I highly doubt this is doable, but if anyone by chance has a spare corner-center piece, whatever color, could I have it? like I said, I'm guessing no one has a bunch of 5x5 pieces just lying around, but I thought I'd check. there's a chance I can just glue it back together, but I doubt that'll work. maybe I'll just buy a new one, but I'd rather not...so, yeah. thanks!

Try cubesmith.com. -Mike --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Atkinson" <m.e.atkinson@g...> wrote: > hey, > just got home from the Idaho Tournament, it was a blast!! I didn't > compete in the 5x5 though for two reasons... > 1. I suck at the 5x5 > 2. mine is broken. > > it's broken because one of the orange corner-center pieces kind of > snapped off. so, I can still use it, because the little part that > hooks into the cube is still there, but the actualy face is gone, so > it's like a little hole in the orange side. I was wondering...I > highly doubt this is doable, but if anyone by chance has a spare > corner-center piece, whatever color, could I have it? like I said, > I'm guessing no one has a bunch of 5x5 pieces just lying around, but I > thought I'd check. there's a chance I can just glue it back together, > but I doubt that'll work. maybe I'll just buy a new one, but I'd > rather not...so, yeah. thanks!

I hadn't intended to start this whole discussion, but I do want to add some comments, hopefully to explain a bit about where I was coming from... --- Tyson Mao wrote: > Hmm... offensive clothing? That's pretty broad. --- kwickykanny wrote: > Yeah, broad is bad. If it were phrased "offensive clothing," just > how far down would you have to drill? ... --- thewetdog wrote: > I agree with Tyson, that the definition of "offensive" is rather > subjective. I didn't mean to imply that it was objective - in fact, by definition, what is "offensive" is highly subjective. Something that is offensive to one person (or even a large group of people), is very likely commonplace for others. Unfortunately, I didn't make it clear that I was merely looking for a rule or set of rules that govern(s) articles of clothing that "display 'offensive' or 'controversial' content". I wasn't trying to come up with the final wording for such a rule - that would be up to the governing body (WCA). Also, Bob was kind enough to let us know (since I hadn't taken the time to check) that such a rule does exist. I'm sorry I didn't take the time to look into that in the first place. --- Tyson Mao wrote: > ... David Wesley's "Jesus is Lord" shirt could be considered > offensive by many people. In my opinion, that was a little bad > taste. He knew there would publicity at that competition. A cube > competition is no place to promote your own personal beliefs. --- Kirk wrote: > ... "Jesus Is Lord" was acceptable within the rules, and it may > have been precisely because of the potential publicity that he > chose to wear that shirt that day--isn't that what anyone who has a > message they want to advertise would do? Same reason sponsors put > their logos on clothing. > > I guess I don't see a signfiicant distinction between one's right > of commercial promotion vs. religious promotion... Putting aside the already addressed issue of country (read "freedoms" in the USA) vs. international appropriateness, this does bring up a good point. While Tyson obviously does see a difference between commercial and religious promotion, there are others who prefer not to (or simply don't) make that distinction. I think it's important to note that regardless who/what we represent with our attire, our actions and attitudes will reflect on that individual/group. I'm sure David had this in mind, and would expect that anyone representing a company would do the same as they compete and interact with other competitors. I personally (just to throw in my opinion) agree that where commercial promotion would be allowed, statements of personal belief are reasonable, provided it is "self" promotion, and not "other" deprecating. --- thewetdog wrote: > It is too bad that some people don't have the common courtesy or > commonsense to pick their personal messages accordingly. Unfortunately, depending on the message, it may require more than common sense or courtesy. As I said, things that are offensive to some are not necessarily offensive to all. More than that, something may be so commonplace to someone that they may not realize it could be offensive to someone (or a group of people) with whom they have not yet had contact. - Grant P.S. I'm not trying to be argumentative, or offensive, but did want to give some explanation behind my thoughts on this conversation.

--- thewetdog wrote: > ... What I am asking about is not offensive in its primary message. > [snip] > I would think someone showing up decked out in a Camel or Marlboro > outfit because the company, for publicity, is sponsoring him or her > would be extremely bad taste. But I now understand that there are > no real rules on the subject. Do we wait until this situation > arises to make a rule, or do we just say that it is all fair game? Whether you wait until the situation arises or not, I believe this would be an extremely difficult issue to address in rules. Where to draw the line between what is okay, and what is too much, would be subjective, and opinions could vary widely. - Grant

FYI, I learned f2l from your site 2 years ago and watched your 23 second video abot 10 times a day. It was motivating. Thanks for saying hi. -Chris On 9/18/05, N8 <collegenathan@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hey guys! I haven't really been involved with cubing much for the last > couple of years, but don't think I've quit for good! I've been doing a > lot of work on my new site, which has even more cool F2L tricks. I'll > also finally show all of my PLL algorithms which I hand picked from > cube algorithm generators utilizing 2 and 3 faces only. Anyway, I live > like an hour away from Orlando now so I'm psyched about going to the > World Championship. Maybe I can finish in the top 50, but since I > stopped cubing my previous best average of 24.96 went from like 40th to > 100th now :( That is a good sign for our community though! Well, I'll > let you know the progress of the new site (I know I promised on like, > uh, last March :() and I can't wait to see some of you at the WC! > > —›NathanChristie > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Does anyone in Idaho know of a Ilia Shadrin? He seems to have founded a Rubik's Cube Club in Idaho. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology

Oh wait, I have more info: Boise, Idaho... Capital High School? Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 18, 2005, at 11:26 PM, Tyson Mao wrote: > Does anyone in Idaho know of a Ilia Shadrin? He seems to have founded > a Rubik's Cube Club in Idaho. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Hmmm i thought i sent this once but my connectionnwas playing up last night. Apologies if it did get sent: An old thread I know but ... I was searching through some old vinyl - LPs and singles from a long time ago - and I found a single that I forgot I had. I won it in the 1982 (3?) Radio Budapest fewest moves competition along with other memorabilia. Its made in Hungary but sung in English and word sheet is included so repeated below. Side B is called Hungarian Goulash for two and its signed by the artists (Bea Muszty and Andras Dobay). Enjoy! Trick in the Middle (Rubik's Cube) by B Muszty and A Dobey If you miss the evening train And you're standing in the rain - life's not roses all the way When your tax return is false And you've bet on the wrong horse - the Cube won't lead you astray Taking a sunbath on the beach For a magazine you reach - life's not roses all the way Headlines seem to have no meaning And you're sceptical of reading - the Cube won't lead you astray Try to harmonize the colours of your life Or the faces of the Cube to be alike You can twist, twiddle and fiddle But the trick's in the middle of the Cube - Rubik Rubik's Cube Your son's taking drugs Your house if full of bugs - life's not roses all the way No one calls you honey Your wife drinks all your money - the Cube won't lead you astray When your true love is gone Don't you look for your gun - life's not roses all the way Don't you weep, don't you mourn You can fiddle on your own ... - the Cube won't lead you astray Try to harmonize the colours of your life Or the faces of the Cube to be alike You can twist, twiddle and fiddle But the trick's in the middle of the Cube - Rubik Rubik's Cube ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Hayes" <swedishlf@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 7:20 AM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Cube song help - found them all! > OK, sorry to spam the boards guys but I this was driving me crazy. > Last post on the subject, I promise! I've been searching all day and > finally found out every thing I need to know. > > Song 1 - You folks were kind enough to point me to a download of "Mr. > Rubik" By The Barron Knights. That was the easy one! > > Song 2 - After much searching, the secret lies in post number 2715 of > our very own group. The song is "Rubik's Cube" by the Amateur Lovers > off the 1997 album Virgin White Lies. I posted it on www.putfile.com > , which I've never used before so let me know if it works: > http://media.putfile.com/RubiksCube26 It's a fantastic song, and > there were many responses to the original post about it. Odd that > none of us remembered them. > > Song 3 - "This Rubik's Cube is Driving me Crazy!" - Eric Drysdale > Originally aired on Comedy Central's Premium Blend episode 307 and (I > think) can be found on Comic Remix episode 116. I'll have to keep an > eye out on the comedy central tv listings, and see if Mr. Drysdale > responds to my request. I'd like to have a copy of it. > > Other songs I found during the search: > "Your Cat Can do the Cube" - Ronnie Allen & the Missing Pieces from > The Dr. Demento Show #82-41 - 10/10/82 > > "I can't do The Cube" - Ronnie Allen & the Missing Pieces > > "The Cube" - Bob Jenkins > > "Cubic Refugee" - Stevens & Grdnic (not a typo) from The Dr. Demento > Show #82-22 - May 30, 1982 > > I have been unable to find copies of any of these yet, though I do > have partial lyrics for some. > > Thanks for the help, and I'm happy I can finally sleep! > > -Daniel > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Can you copy that to your computer?? I know it's vinyl, but it's possible to burn it to an mp3 with the right set up, and I imagine I'm not alone in saying I'd love to hear it... --Kirk --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Duncan Dicks" <duncan@d...> wrote: > Hmmm i thought i sent this once but my connectionnwas playing up last night. > Apologies if it did get sent: > > > An old thread I know but ... > I was searching through some old vinyl - LPs and singles from a long time > ago - and I found a single that I forgot I had. I won it in the 1982 (3?) > Radio Budapest fewest moves competition along with other memorabilia. Its > made in Hungary but sung in English and word sheet is included so repeated > below. Side B is called Hungarian Goulash for two and its signed by the > artists (Bea Muszty and Andras Dobay). Enjoy! > > Trick in the Middle (Rubik's Cube) > by B Muszty and A Dobey > > If you miss the evening train > And you're standing in the rain > - life's not roses all the way > When your tax return is false > And you've bet on the wrong horse > - the Cube won't lead you astray > > Taking a sunbath on the beach > For a magazine you reach > - life's not roses all the way > Headlines seem to have no meaning > And you're sceptical of reading > - the Cube won't lead you astray > > Try to harmonize the colours of your life > Or the faces of the Cube to be alike > You can twist, twiddle and fiddle > But the trick's in the middle > of the Cube - Rubik Rubik's Cube > > Your son's taking drugs > Your house if full of bugs > - life's not roses all the way > No one calls you honey > Your wife drinks all your money > - the Cube won't lead you astray > > When your true love is gone > Don't you look for your gun > - life's not roses all the way > Don't you weep, don't you mourn > You can fiddle on your own ... > - the Cube won't lead you astray > > Try to harmonize the colours of your life > Or the faces of the Cube to be alike > You can twist, twiddle and fiddle > But the trick's in the middle > of the Cube - Rubik Rubik's Cube > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Hayes" <swedishlf@h...> > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 7:20 AM > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Cube song help - found them all! > > > > OK, sorry to spam the boards guys but I this was driving me crazy. > > Last post on the subject, I promise! I've been searching all day and > > finally found out every thing I need to know. > > > > Song 1 - You folks were kind enough to point me to a download of "Mr. > > Rubik" By The Barron Knights. That was the easy one! > > > > Song 2 - After much searching, the secret lies in post number 2715 of > > our very own group. The song is "Rubik's Cube" by the Amateur Lovers > > off the 1997 album Virgin White Lies. I posted it on www.putfile.com > > , which I've never used before so let me know if it works: > > http://media.putfile.com/RubiksCube26 It's a fantastic song, and > > there were many responses to the original post about it. Odd that > > none of us remembered them. > > > > Song 3 - "This Rubik's Cube is Driving me Crazy!" - Eric Drysdale > > Originally aired on Comedy Central's Premium Blend episode 307 and (I > > think) can be found on Comic Remix episode 116. I'll have to keep an > > eye out on the comedy central tv listings, and see if Mr. Drysdale > > responds to my request. I'd like to have a copy of it. > > > > Other songs I found during the search: > > "Your Cat Can do the Cube" - Ronnie Allen & the Missing Pieces from > > The Dr. Demento Show #82-41 - 10/10/82 > > > > "I can't do The Cube" - Ronnie Allen & the Missing Pieces > > > > "The Cube" - Bob Jenkins > > > > "Cubic Refugee" - Stevens & Grdnic (not a typo) from The Dr. Demento > > Show #82-22 - May 30, 1982 > > > > I have been unable to find copies of any of these yet, though I do > > have partial lyrics for some. > > > > Thanks for the help, and I'm happy I can finally sleep! > > > > -Daniel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I'll see what i can do! ----- Original Message ----- From: "kirk83616" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:46 AM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Cube song help - found them all! - just found an old cube song - very funny > Can you copy that to your computer?? I know it's vinyl, but it's > possible to burn it to an mp3 with the right set up, and I imagine > I'm not alone in saying I'd love to hear it... > --Kirk > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Duncan Dicks" > <duncan@d...> wrote: >> Hmmm i thought i sent this once but my connectionnwas playing up > last night. >> Apologies if it did get sent: >> >> >> An old thread I know but ... >> I was searching through some old vinyl - LPs and singles from a > long time >> ago - and I found a single that I forgot I had. I won it in the > 1982 (3?) >> Radio Budapest fewest moves competition along with other > memorabilia. Its >> made in Hungary but sung in English and word sheet is included so > repeated >> below. Side B is called Hungarian Goulash for two and its signed > by the >> artists (Bea Muszty and Andras Dobay). Enjoy! >> >> Trick in the Middle (Rubik's Cube) >> by B Muszty and A Dobey >> >> If you miss the evening train >> And you're standing in the rain >> - life's not roses all the way >> When your tax return is false >> And you've bet on the wrong horse >> - the Cube won't lead you astray >> >> Taking a sunbath on the beach >> For a magazine you reach >> - life's not roses all the way >> Headlines seem to have no meaning >> And you're sceptical of reading >> - the Cube won't lead you astray >> >> Try to harmonize the colours of your life >> Or the faces of the Cube to be alike >> You can twist, twiddle and fiddle >> But the trick's in the middle >> of the Cube - Rubik Rubik's Cube >> >> Your son's taking drugs >> Your house if full of bugs >> - life's not roses all the way >> No one calls you honey >> Your wife drinks all your money >> - the Cube won't lead you astray >> >> When your true love is gone >> Don't you look for your gun >> - life's not roses all the way >> Don't you weep, don't you mourn >> You can fiddle on your own ... >> - the Cube won't lead you astray >> >> Try to harmonize the colours of your life >> Or the faces of the Cube to be alike >> You can twist, twiddle and fiddle >> But the trick's in the middle >> of the Cube - Rubik Rubik's Cube >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Daniel Hayes" <swedishlf@h...> >> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 7:20 AM >> Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Cube song help - found them all! >> >> >> > OK, sorry to spam the boards guys but I this was driving me > crazy. >> > Last post on the subject, I promise! I've been searching all > day and >> > finally found out every thing I need to know. >> > >> > Song 1 - You folks were kind enough to point me to a download > of "Mr. >> > Rubik" By The Barron Knights. That was the easy one! >> > >> > Song 2 - After much searching, the secret lies in post number > 2715 of >> > our very own group. The song is "Rubik's Cube" by the Amateur > Lovers >> > off the 1997 album Virgin White Lies. I posted it on > www.putfile.com >> > , which I've never used before so let me know if it works: >> > http://media.putfile.com/RubiksCube26 It's a fantastic song, and >> > there were many responses to the original post about it. Odd > that >> > none of us remembered them. >> > >> > Song 3 - "This Rubik's Cube is Driving me Crazy!" - Eric Drysdale >> > Originally aired on Comedy Central's Premium Blend episode 307 > and (I >> > think) can be found on Comic Remix episode 116. I'll have to > keep an >> > eye out on the comedy central tv listings, and see if Mr. > Drysdale >> > responds to my request. I'd like to have a copy of it. >> > >> > Other songs I found during the search: >> > "Your Cat Can do the Cube" - Ronnie Allen & the Missing Pieces > from >> > The Dr. Demento Show #82-41 - 10/10/82 >> > >> > "I can't do The Cube" - Ronnie Allen & the Missing Pieces >> > >> > "The Cube" - Bob Jenkins >> > >> > "Cubic Refugee" - Stevens & Grdnic (not a typo) from The Dr. > Demento >> > Show #82-22 - May 30, 1982 >> > >> > I have been unable to find copies of any of these yet, though I > do >> > have partial lyrics for some. >> > >> > Thanks for the help, and I'm happy I can finally sleep! >> > >> > -Daniel >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Hi Everyone, I wanted to run a couple of ideas by you guys. 1. Instead of allowing competitors to choose the U-color and F-color, three colors (A, B, and C) are drawn randomly at the beginning of each competition. The cubes are then scrambled with A as the U-face and B as the F-face. If B is not possible as the F-face, it is substituted with C. Doing this will save time for the scramblers, and make it easier for us to keep track. There's no "someone's getting shafted" because it's random and you have no way of knowing beforehand and thus it's equal. 2. We are wanting to eliminate to POP for 2006. Without POP solves, in an average of 5, as Lars said, you have to pop 40% of the time for it to really affect you and that's just unacceptable. However, the argument still stands that 'mean of' competitors who popped would essentially be taken out of the competition. Common 'mean of' events are the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 cube, which, upon popping, are generally not trivial fixes. I'd like to run the idea that POPs are eliminated for 'average' competition but still included in the 'mean of' competition. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology

So under this proposal, would the competitor be allowed to use the 15 second inspection time to examine the cube and place it back down with the desired face up? Personally, I'm all in favor of making it easier on the judges and scramblers. There's a lot of effort that goes into these events, and there's no reason to make it any more difficult or time consuming than it actually has to be. The proposal seems even- handed--every competitor gets the same mixed up cube. So my initial reaction is it sounds reasonable to me. But I would want to place the cube down during the inspection with my preferred side up. It wouldn't give an advantage to anyone, and would be consistent with current practices. --Kirk --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I wanted to run a couple of ideas by you guys. > > 1. Instead of allowing competitors to choose the U-color and F- color, > three colors (A, B, and C) are drawn randomly at the beginning of each > competition. The cubes are then scrambled with A as the U-face and B > as the F-face. If B is not possible as the F-face, it is substituted > with C. Doing this will save time for the scramblers, and make it > easier for us to keep track. There's no "someone's getting shafted" > because it's random and you have no way of knowing beforehand and thus > it's equal. > > 2. We are wanting to eliminate to POP for 2006. Without POP solves, > in an average of 5, as Lars said, you have to pop 40% of the time for > it to really affect you and that's just unacceptable. However, the > argument still stands that 'mean of' competitors who popped would > essentially be taken out of the competition. Common 'mean of' events > are the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 cube, which, upon popping, are generally not > trivial fixes. I'd like to run the idea that POPs are eliminated for > 'average' competition but still included in the 'mean of' competition. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology

The inspection allows you to place it down how you want. In BLD, competitors should ask judges to place the cube a certain way. On my second solve, I almost started memorizing and then I saw that the blue center was in front. It could have been ugly. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 19, 2005, at 1:21 AM, kirk83616 wrote: > So under this proposal, would the competitor be allowed to use the > 15 second inspection time to examine the cube and place it back down > with the desired face up? > > Personally, I'm all in favor of making it easier on the judges and > scramblers. There's a lot of effort that goes into these events, > and there's no reason to make it any more difficult or time > consuming than it actually has to be. The proposal seems even- > handed--every competitor gets the same mixed up cube. So my initial > reaction is it sounds reasonable to me. > > But I would want to place the cube down during the inspection with > my preferred side up. It wouldn't give an advantage to anyone, and > would be consistent with current practices. > > --Kirk

I agree completely. It would be far too difficult if not impossible to craft language covering every possible way someone might wear something that would be offensive to someone (or even to many). And even if you covered all the language or types of pictures that could be offensive, I can think of some outfits that don't have pictures or words but would still be offensive to many. I suppose we could require everyone to wear uniforms to compete. That's one way to eliminate this risk. The other more practical solution is to imbue the WCA delegate with discretion to determine on an ad hoc basis if something is so offensive that the person wearing it should not be allowed to compete while wearing it. I would hope that such determinations would be limited to something extremely vulgar or pornographic, which is how I would interpret the "vulgar or offensive" terms in the rules. You could include a safe-gap measure that such a determination would need to be ratified by 3 other judges so that a capricious judge's decision wouldn't be final, and you could even allow the competitor a few minutes to change or something. But has this really been an issue historically, or is this just much ado about nothing? Can't we just encourage other people to try to use some common sense and try not to take offense at the ideas others try to express? --Kirk --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Tregay" <Grant@T...> wrote: > --- thewetdog wrote: > > ... What I am asking about is not offensive in its primary message. > > [snip] > > I would think someone showing up decked out in a Camel or Marlboro > > outfit because the company, for publicity, is sponsoring him or her > > would be extremely bad taste. But I now understand that there are > > no real rules on the subject. Do we wait until this situation > > arises to make a rule, or do we just say that it is all fair game? > > Whether you wait until the situation arises or not, I believe this > would be an extremely difficult issue to address in rules. Where to > draw the line between what is okay, and what is too much, would be > subjective, and opinions could vary widely. > > - Grant

I disagree. Competitors should not expect the cube to be placed in front of him/her a certain way. For one of my solves at the Dallas competition, I had asked the judge before starting my solve whether the blue center was in front and yellow center was on top. She told me it was, so when I started memorizing, I hadn't realized I was holding the cube the wrong way. It should not be the judge's job to place the cube in front of the competitor a certain way. It is the responsibility of the competitor to pay attention to these things. Leyan Tyson Mao wrote: > The inspection allows you to place it down how you want. In BLD, > competitors should ask judges to place the cube a certain way. On my > second solve, I almost started memorizing and then I saw that the blue > center was in front. It could have been ugly. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 19, 2005, at 1:21 AM, kirk83616 wrote: > > >>So under this proposal, would the competitor be allowed to use the >>15 second inspection time to examine the cube and place it back down >>with the desired face up? >> >>Personally, I'm all in favor of making it easier on the judges and >>scramblers. There's a lot of effort that goes into these events, >>and there's no reason to make it any more difficult or time >>consuming than it actually has to be. The proposal seems even- >>handed--every competitor gets the same mixed up cube. So my initial >>reaction is it sounds reasonable to me. >> >>But I would want to place the cube down during the inspection with >>my preferred side up. It wouldn't give an advantage to anyone, and >>would be consistent with current practices. >> >>--Kirk > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Another simple solution to this problem would be to give t-shirts to everyone and say that they must wear them at all competitions. This would work for something big like theWC2005, But for smaller tourneys, I guess "offensive" would be dicided by the organizing commity. ----- Original Message ----- From: kirk83616 To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 4:48 AM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: World Championship I agree completely. It would be far too difficult if not impossible to craft language covering every possible way someone might wear something that would be offensive to someone (or even to many). And even if you covered all the language or types of pictures that could be offensive, I can think of some outfits that don't have pictures or words but would still be offensive to many. I suppose we could require everyone to wear uniforms to compete. That's one way to eliminate this risk. The other more practical solution is to imbue the WCA delegate with discretion to determine on an ad hoc basis if something is so offensive that the person wearing it should not be allowed to compete while wearing it. I would hope that such determinations would be limited to something extremely vulgar or pornographic, which is how I would interpret the "vulgar or offensive" terms in the rules. You could include a safe-gap measure that such a determination would need to be ratified by 3 other judges so that a capricious judge's decision wouldn't be final, and you could even allow the competitor a few minutes to change or something. But has this really been an issue historically, or is this just much ado about nothing? Can't we just encourage other people to try to use some common sense and try not to take offense at the ideas others try to express? --Kirk --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Tregay" <Grant@T...> wrote: > --- thewetdog wrote: > > ... What I am asking about is not offensive in its primary message. > > [snip] > > I would think someone showing up decked out in a Camel or Marlboro > > outfit because the company, for publicity, is sponsoring him or her > > would be extremely bad taste. But I now understand that there are > > no real rules on the subject. Do we wait until this situation > > arises to make a rule, or do we just say that it is all fair game? > > Whether you wait until the situation arises or not, I believe this > would be an extremely difficult issue to address in rules. Where to > draw the line between what is okay, and what is too much, would be > subjective, and opinions could vary widely. > > - Grant SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually, I have to agree with Leyan and call myself an idiot. One of my main objectives is to reduce the amount of responsibility on the judges where appropriate. In a standard 3x3x3 speed solve competition, this is not an issue. I'm pretty confident the blindfold cubers out there won't mind the extra half second it takes for them to put the right colors in front of them. The fact remains that finding judges for a competition is always difficult. Finding judges that are willing to stay the entire day is extremely difficult. I have been very fortunate to go to a school with people named Mark who solve the cube in about 45 to 50 seconds and thus I have a limited supply of 'skilled' judges. Until cubers are willing to attend competitions where they do not compete at all, 'skilled' judges will always be a rarity and a precious resource when present. With that being said, I remember it was once requested that the judge picks up and inspects the cube rapidly after the competitor has finished solving. Whereas this would be nice, if a judge forgets, please don't grab your cube and insist that the judge wasn't paying attention and didn't inspect your cube. Instead, what I do is I tell my judge to inspect the cube and hand it back to me. Not only does it teach the judge a lesson, but it also makes sure you follow all the rules completely. If you're aware of the rules, you can enforce them yourself. Please don't blame something on a judge when you could have corrected yourself. This is just a general statement and aimed at no one. I read that last statement again in my head and realized that I could be misunderstood. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology P.S. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you hold the wrong centers to you and you try to BLD, baring an unsolvable parity error (can that happen), do you get a nice pretty 'dot' design? On Sep 19, 2005, at 2:06 AM, Leyan Lo wrote: > I disagree. Competitors should not expect the cube to be placed in > front of him/her a certain way. > > For one of my solves at the Dallas competition, I had asked the judge > before starting my solve whether the blue center was in front and > yellow > center was on top. She told me it was, so when I started memorizing, I > hadn't realized I was holding the cube the wrong way. > > It should not be the judge's job to place the cube in front of the > competitor a certain way. It is the responsibility of the competitor > to > pay attention to these things. > > Leyan > > > Tyson Mao wrote: >> The inspection allows you to place it down how you want. In BLD, >> competitors should ask judges to place the cube a certain way. On my >> second solve, I almost started memorizing and then I saw that the blue >> center was in front. It could have been ugly. >> >> Tyson Mao >> MSC #631 >> California Institute of Technology >> >> On Sep 19, 2005, at 1:21 AM, kirk83616 wrote: >> >> >>> So under this proposal, would the competitor be allowed to use the >>> 15 second inspection time to examine the cube and place it back down >>> with the desired face up? >>> >>> Personally, I'm all in favor of making it easier on the judges and >>> scramblers. There's a lot of effort that goes into these events, >>> and there's no reason to make it any more difficult or time >>> consuming than it actually has to be. The proposal seems even- >>> handed--every competitor gets the same mixed up cube. So my initial >>> reaction is it sounds reasonable to me. >>> >>> But I would want to place the cube down during the inspection with >>> my preferred side up. It wouldn't give an advantage to anyone, and >>> would be consistent with current practices. >>> >>> --Kirk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Isn't that just a uniform? I'd like to hope, though I know this isn't true, that if someone is smart enough to solve a Rubik's Cube, then they're smart enough not to wear clothing with alcohol or tobacco slogans, profanity, vulgarity, obscenities, and that they've got enough control to refrain from promoting any messages (such as Hawaiian Independence or Join My Cult) at an international event where people from different backgrounds and cultures may be sensitive to things which we take for granted. I guess this is the one time I can smile at my perfectly mundane wardrobe. Oh, except for that one prank t-shirt. I won't be wearing that one to WC 2005. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 19, 2005, at 2:39 AM, Peter Douthwright wrote: > Another simple solution to this problem would be to give t-shirts to > everyone and say that they must wear them at all competitions. > > This would work for something big like theWC2005, But for smaller > tourneys, I guess "offensive" would be dicided by the organizing > commity. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: kirk83616 > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 4:48 AM > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: World Championship > > > I agree completely. It would be far too difficult if not impossible > to craft language covering every possible way someone might wear > something that would be offensive to someone (or even to many). And > even if you covered all the language or types of pictures that could > be offensive, I can think of some outfits that don't have pictures or > words but would still be offensive to many. > > I suppose we could require everyone to wear uniforms to compete. > That's one way to eliminate this risk. > > The other more practical solution is to imbue the WCA delegate with > discretion to determine on an ad hoc basis if something is so > offensive that the person wearing it should not be allowed to compete > while wearing it. I would hope that such determinations would be > limited to something extremely vulgar or pornographic, which is how I > would interpret the "vulgar or offensive" terms in the rules. You > could include a safe-gap measure that such a determination would need > to be ratified by 3 other judges so that a capricious judge's > decision > wouldn't be final, and you could even allow the competitor a few > minutes to change or something. > > But has this really been an issue historically, or is this just much > ado about nothing? Can't we just encourage other people to try to > use > some common sense and try not to take offense at the ideas others try > to express? > --Kirk > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Tregay" > <Grant@T...> wrote: >> --- thewetdog wrote: >>> ... What I am asking about is not offensive in its primary message. >>> [snip] >>> I would think someone showing up decked out in a Camel or Marlboro >>> outfit because the company, for publicity, is sponsoring him or her >>> would be extremely bad taste. But I now understand that there are >>> no real rules on the subject. Do we wait until this situation >>> arises to make a rule, or do we just say that it is all fair game? >> >> Whether you wait until the situation arises or not, I believe this >> would be an extremely difficult issue to address in rules. Where to >> draw the line between what is okay, and what is too much, would be >> subjective, and opinions could vary widely. >> >> - Grant > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games > Educational game and puzzle > Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

I think it would be best if those three colors, A-B-C, are decided by the WCA and then used for every competition. I mean, that's the WCA's job, right? It is no fairer to randomly select three colors at the beginning of each competition, and in fact could be an annoyance to scramblers who scramble for more than one competition. But if you strongly believe that every color has equal right to be A B or C, then go for it. Leyan Tyson Mao wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I wanted to run a couple of ideas by you guys. > > 1. Instead of allowing competitors to choose the U-color and F-color, > three colors (A, B, and C) are drawn randomly at the beginning of each > competition. The cubes are then scrambled with A as the U-face and B > as the F-face. If B is not possible as the F-face, it is substituted > with C. Doing this will save time for the scramblers, and make it > easier for us to keep track. There's no "someone's getting shafted" > because it's random and you have no way of knowing beforehand and thus > it's equal. > > 2. We are wanting to eliminate to POP for 2006. Without POP solves, > in an average of 5, as Lars said, you have to pop 40% of the time for > it to really affect you and that's just unacceptable. However, the > argument still stands that 'mean of' competitors who popped would > essentially be taken out of the competition. Common 'mean of' events > are the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 cube, which, upon popping, are generally not > trivial fixes. I'd like to run the idea that POPs are eliminated for > 'average' competition but still included in the 'mean of' competition. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

> P.S. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you hold the wrong centers to you > and you try to BLD, baring an unsolvable parity error (can that > happen), do you get a nice pretty 'dot' design? Half the time you get a pattern ;-) The other half you would get an unsolvable parity error where the corner permutation and the edge permutation do not have the same parity in your mind. So yeah that might screw things up a bit ;-) Chris

I would strongly advocate equal rights for stickers of all colors mainly because, though it is fair to select A-B-C and set them for every competition, I know people out there all have different color preferences. It definitely won't get annoying for the scramblers because if you do one competition, after three solves into the next competition, you wouldn't even have to think twice. I for one have gotten to the point where after the second solve of the first round, I'm pretty sure someone could hand me a cube, and I could tell you who's cube it was and what color scheme they requested (since we've been asking for color scheme in the past). Really nasty greasy cube? That's Edison Park's and he wants green on top. Textured tiles with Cube Smith logo on white center? That's Jeff Soesbe and white on top, orange in front. Tiled cube that turns very well? Yellow on top, blue in front. New Cube Smith stickers, slight white line underneath the orange sticker on the white/orange edge? That's Alan Chang's cube and he has no preference. Paper sticker cube coated with nail polish to prevent peeling of stickers? That's Timothy Wong and he's cool because he goes white/green. Warren's cube has a slightly grainy feeling to it which is similar to Lars Petrus' cube but it's a bit looser and his green is different. Matthew Wallisa has older Cube Smith stickers and his blue is the same blue as on my BLD cube and he goes blue/white. Mike Grimsley's cube says skeenegee on the white center. Cube that pops at the slightest touch, is loose beyond belief, absolutely ridiculous, and has an X carved into the red center sticker? Frank Chang... loosest cube at the Caltech Spring 2005 competition. Second loosest cube I've felt, losing out only Kenneth Brandon's cube from Caltech Winter 2004. It would be really easy to randomly select three colors and it won't really be tedious at all. Plus, I think it could be kind of fun having a bunch of Chris' tiles in a hat and reaching in for three. Furthermore, selecting random colors at the competition is another way, though there really shouldn't be any doubt, to further show that I am indeed running a fair competition. After WC 2003, I try to make it a point that randomly generated scrambles are not checked for 'luckiness' because there is not uniform definition for luckiness. Also, it's fun to say I stand for equal rights. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 19, 2005, at 3:02 AM, Leyan Lo wrote: > I think it would be best if those three colors, A-B-C, are decided by > the WCA and then used for every competition. I mean, that's the WCA's > job, right? It is no fairer to randomly select three colors at the > beginning of each competition, and in fact could be an annoyance to > scramblers who scramble for more than one competition. > > But if you strongly believe that every color has equal right to be A B > or C, then go for it. > > Leyan > > > Tyson Mao wrote: >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I wanted to run a couple of ideas by you guys. >> >> 1. Instead of allowing competitors to choose the U-color and F-color, >> three colors (A, B, and C) are drawn randomly at the beginning of each >> competition. The cubes are then scrambled with A as the U-face and B >> as the F-face. If B is not possible as the F-face, it is substituted >> with C. Doing this will save time for the scramblers, and make it >> easier for us to keep track. There's no "someone's getting shafted" >> because it's random and you have no way of knowing beforehand and thus >> it's equal. >> >> 2. We are wanting to eliminate to POP for 2006. Without POP solves, >> in an average of 5, as Lars said, you have to pop 40% of the time for >> it to really affect you and that's just unacceptable. However, the >> argument still stands that 'mean of' competitors who popped would >> essentially be taken out of the competition. Common 'mean of' events >> are the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 cube, which, upon popping, are generally not >> trivial fixes. I'd like to run the idea that POPs are eliminated for >> 'average' competition but still included in the 'mean of' competition. >> >> Tyson Mao >> MSC #631 >> California Institute of Technology >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > > 1. Instead of allowing competitors to choose the U-color and F-color, > three colors (A, B, and C) are drawn randomly at the beginning of each > competition. The cubes are then scrambled with A as the U-face and B > as the F-face. If B is not possible as the F-face, it is substituted > with C. Doing this will save time for the scramblers, and make it > easier for us to keep track. There's no "someone's getting shafted" > because it's random and you have no way of knowing beforehand and thus > it's equal. If you really want to make it easier for the organizers you'll finally accept that it doesn't matter and thus caring about it means unnecessary overhead work. Or do you want to force me to solve with a certain method, too? And force me to start with a certain color, too? And make the same decisions as everyone else? And use the same algorithms as everyone else? So that we all end up with the same solution? Mainly it's this: What sense does it make requesting a certain way to hold the cube for scrambling, if you don't request the same for solving?? Stefan

It doesn't make much sense, but I feel it is a better alternative to randomly selecting colors. Unless there was a random number/color generator/selector nearby, human selection of color would inherently have a slight bias to it. I personally, as a scrambler, would not want to be given the task of objectively selecting colors. You know... this Stefan guy pissed me off and I notice that this color is easier than the other one, so I won't give that one to him. Of course, no one would ever consciously make the decision. I would like it to be impossible for me to even subconsciously influence the solve in any way. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 19, 2005, at 3:30 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > wrote: >> >> 1. Instead of allowing competitors to choose the U-color and > F-color, >> three colors (A, B, and C) are drawn randomly at the beginning of > each >> competition. The cubes are then scrambled with A as the U-face and > B >> as the F-face. If B is not possible as the F-face, it is > substituted >> with C. Doing this will save time for the scramblers, and make it >> easier for us to keep track. There's no "someone's getting shafted" >> because it's random and you have no way of knowing beforehand and > thus >> it's equal. > > > If you really want to make it easier for the organizers you'll finally > accept that it doesn't matter and thus caring about it means > unnecessary overhead work. > > Or do you want to force me to solve with a certain method, too? And > force me to start with a certain color, too? And make the same > decisions as everyone else? And use the same algorithms as everyone > else? So that we all end up with the same solution? > > Mainly it's this: What sense does it make requesting a certain way to > hold the cube for scrambling, if you don't request the same for > solving?? > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Actually, I have to agree with Leyan and call myself an idiot. One of > my main objectives is to reduce the amount of responsibility on the > judges where appropriate. Besides that, I'd also say making the judge orient the cube is just unnatural and wrong. If you let a non-cuber scramble your cube for a demo, would you expect him/her to return the cube with a certain orientation? Same in no-inspection contests, btw, where I hope people don't always start with a certain orientation (e.g. white center already on D). I know this has been violated and I wish the rules would forbid it... Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > P.S. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you hold the wrong centers to you > > and you try to BLD, baring an unsolvable parity error (can that > > happen), do you get a nice pretty 'dot' design? > > Half the time you get a pattern ;-) The other half you would get an > unsolvable parity error where the corner permutation and the edge > permutation do not have the same parity in your mind. Depends on whether you check it. I check that corners and edges have the same parity so I'd detect the parity case during memorization (actually only at the very end, sadly ;-). Cheers! Stefan

Stakcmat rules, age groups suck and someone should sell stackmats in competitons.

Hey Stefan, The no inspection thing, after this whole deal with the StackMat, seems very interesting to me. Is it possible to write a strict set of regulations for a no inspection event? How are you going to regulate, given unlimited resources, that the competitor is able to look at the cube at the exact moment time is started? Can you come up with a feasible method of actually doing this? Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 19, 2005, at 3:35 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > Besides that, I'd also say making the judge orient the cube is just > unnatural and wrong. If you let a non-cuber scramble your cube for a > demo, would you expect him/her to return the cube with a certain > orientation? > > Same in no-inspection contests, btw, where I hope people don't always > start with a certain orientation (e.g. white center already on D). I > know this has been violated and I wish the rules would forbid it... > > Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > It doesn't make much sense, but I feel it is a better alternative to > randomly selecting colors. Unless there was a random number/color > generator/selector nearby, human selection of color would inherently > have a slight bias to it. I personally, as a scrambler, would not want > to be given the task of objectively selecting colors. You know... this > Stefan guy pissed me off and I notice that this color is easier than > the other one, so I won't give that one to him. Of course, no one > would ever consciously make the decision. I would like it to be > impossible for me to even subconsciously influence the solve in any > way. Ok, that's the first reasonable reason I've heard :-) Though for scrambling I just grab the cube as it comes. I think in this case you overestimate the power of the subconscious ;-). You could also toss it in the air before you start. Still "easier" than having to follow a rule, I'd claim... Stefan

> Same in no-inspection contests, btw, where I hope people don't always > start with a certain orientation (e.g. white center already on D). I > know this has been violated and I wish the rules would forbid it... Right, the cube must be perfectly random. A scramble has to apply to all the cubies: corners, centers, edges. Gilles. PS: That's why I never posted my unofficial "no inspection" record :-)

Short and to the point. Who's going to sell StackMats though? Unless StackMat flies over to Europe, you're asking someone who runs a competition to spend their own money buying a bunch of StackMats that won't be sold. What happens, then, when he's left with a cardboard box filled up to the wazoo with StackMats? Why can't you order one yourself? You know if someone sold you a StackMat, you'd have to pay the price of the StackMat + shipping + a laziness tax which is rounded to the next highest full unit of currency. You'd basically have to tell this person to order it for you. You're much better off ordering it yourself. The competition organizer's job is to provide a fair environment for people to compete. Items for sale at a competition are a luxury and privilege, not a right. I'd say prizes themselves are also a 'nice' think, but not always necessary. No one pays the organizer to host a competition. Perhaps give him a break by not asking him to do something that you really should do yourself? Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 19, 2005, at 3:42 AM, mahtianssi wrote: > Stakcmat rules, age groups suck and someone should sell stackmats in > competitons. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Tossing in the air? You honestly believe that's easier than following a rule? Regardless of how difficult it is to toss a cube in the air, I submit to you that tossing a cube in the air isn't random enough. I juggle clubs. The main point, though, is I would rather be safe. Perhaps my subconsciousness is really awesome? Furthermore, if the colors are randomly chosen before, it's one less thing to worry about, and that's never a bad thing is it? I think someone had a cube which could actually be turned by tossing it into the air too. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 19, 2005, at 3:46 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > wrote: >> It doesn't make much sense, but I feel it is a better alternative to >> randomly selecting colors. Unless there was a random number/color >> generator/selector nearby, human selection of color would inherently >> have a slight bias to it. I personally, as a scrambler, would not > want >> to be given the task of objectively selecting colors. You know... > this >> Stefan guy pissed me off and I notice that this color is easier than >> the other one, so I won't give that one to him. Of course, no one >> would ever consciously make the decision. I would like it to be >> impossible for me to even subconsciously influence the solve in any >> way. > > Ok, that's the first reasonable reason I've heard :-) > > Though for scrambling I just grab the cube as it comes. I think in > this case you overestimate the power of the subconscious ;-). You > could also toss it in the air before you start. Still "easier" than > having to follow a rule, I'd claim... > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Hey Stefan, > > The no inspection thing, after this whole deal with the StackMat, seems > very interesting to me. Is it possible to write a strict set of > regulations for a no inspection event? How are you going to regulate, > given unlimited resources, that the competitor is able to look at the > cube at the exact moment time is started? Can you come up with a > feasible method of actually doing this? You might've seen that I often advocate "naturalness" and try to imitate "real world" scenarios, e.g. one-handed inspection for one-handed solving because it's like that for a real one-handed person. In this case, I'd say the key natural aspect is that you don't plan ahead (which should be measured because it's part of solving). So I believe it'd still be in the right spirit if the competitor could see the cube before the solve for a very short time. Therefore I'd suggest: Judge covers cube with sheet of paper. Competitor says "go". Judge immediately pulls the sheet away. Competitor immediately starts solving. Btw, when I said I know the rule has been violated, I meant the UWR list. I have no idea how it has been done in contests so far. For UWRs I'd simply like to ask people to not orient the cube beforehand in order to get meaningful times and more importantly meaningful comparisons. I've been told that a former leader in that list had oriented the cubes beforehand, and I've always been wondering how Mark Waterman did it in his "marathons" and now that this has become an UWR list, I'd like to know about the people on it, too: http://www.speedcubing.com/records/recs_misc_marathon.html It makes me a bit sad that such an important regulation is missing. Stefan

Nobody in my family has credit cards. Just saw it is also possible to order with check, but with my father's speed I will get stackmat in 2008. And why don't they sell them in stores? --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Short and to the point. Who's going to sell StackMats though? Unless > StackMat flies over to Europe, you're asking someone who runs a > competition to spend their own money buying a bunch of StackMats that > won't be sold. What happens, then, when he's left with a cardboard box > filled up to the wazoo with StackMats? > > Why can't you order one yourself? You know if someone sold you a > StackMat, you'd have to pay the price of the StackMat + shipping + a > laziness tax which is rounded to the next highest full unit of > currency. You'd basically have to tell this person to order it for > you. You're much better off ordering it yourself. > > The competition organizer's job is to provide a fair environment for > people to compete. Items for sale at a competition are a luxury and > privilege, not a right. I'd say prizes themselves are also a 'nice' > think, but not always necessary. No one pays the organizer to host a > competition. Perhaps give him a break by not asking him to do > something that you really should do yourself? > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 19, 2005, at 3:42 AM, mahtianssi wrote: > > > Stakcmat rules, age groups suck and someone should sell stackmats in > > competitons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > > if the colors are randomly chosen before Btw, did you see the rules already enforce a certain way? http://www.speedcubing.com/events/regulations.html See article 4. Though, it should be rewritten. What if I have white opposite blue and no green? Then it's impossible to follow the rule. I'd suggest "brightest color on top, darkest adjacent color on front". Cheers! Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "mahtianssi" <mahtianssi@y...> wrote: > Nobody in my family has credit cards. > Just saw it is also possible to order with check, > but with my father's speed I will get stackmat in 2008. > And why don't they sell them in stores? Simple: stores cost money. Did you have a look at the Scandinavian speedstacks site? At least that should make shipping easier. http://www.speedstacksscandinavia.com/dansk/ Stefan

hmmm.. I know the high school, however, I have not heard of him. Tyson Mao <tmao@...> wrote:Oh wait, I have more info: Boise, Idaho... Capital High School? Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 18, 2005, at 11:26 PM, Tyson Mao wrote: > Does anyone in Idaho know of a Ilia Shadrin? He seems to have founded > a Rubik's Cube Club in Idaho. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey Stefan and Chris, sould you explain how only in half the cases the parity can be solved? I mean how will it matter where the centers are, according to my thinking every time we would get a dot in the middle structure. And actually what do u mean an unsolveble parity? Like only 2 corners to be permuted ? Sachin. On 9/19/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > wrote: > > Hey Stefan, > > > > The no inspection thing, after this whole deal with the StackMat, > seems > > very interesting to me. Is it possible to write a strict set of > > regulations for a no inspection event? How are you going to > regulate, > > given unlimited resources, that the competitor is able to look at > the > > cube at the exact moment time is started? Can you come up with a > > feasible method of actually doing this? > > > You might've seen that I often advocate "naturalness" and try to > imitate "real world" scenarios, e.g. one-handed inspection for > one-handed solving because it's like that for a real one-handed > person. > > In this case, I'd say the key natural aspect is that you don't plan > ahead (which should be measured because it's part of solving). So I > believe it'd still be in the right spirit if the competitor could see > the cube before the solve for a very short time. > > Therefore I'd suggest: Judge covers cube with sheet of paper. > Competitor says "go". Judge immediately pulls the sheet away. > Competitor immediately starts solving. > > Btw, when I said I know the rule has been violated, I meant the UWR > list. I have no idea how it has been done in contests so far. For UWRs > I'd simply like to ask people to not orient the cube beforehand in > order to get meaningful times and more importantly meaningful > comparisons. I've been told that a former leader in that list had > oriented the cubes beforehand, and I've always been wondering how Mark > Waterman did it in his "marathons" and now that this has become an UWR > list, I'd like to know about the people on it, too: > http://www.speedcubing.com/records/recs_misc_marathon.html > It makes me a bit sad that such an important regulation is missing. > > Stefan > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Hey Sachin, If you consider solving the pieces around the centers in different ways, then you have to consider the centers as pieces as well, and no longer as fixed points. The way I think of it is this, do a rotation y (spin the cube like the move U). If you imagine that you just did an algorithm to your cube, you have 4 cycled the corners in both the U and D layers. Two odd cycles is an even permutation, so you have left the corner permutation alone in terms of parity. For the edges you have 4 cycled the edges in both the U and D layers, as well as the middle layer. An odd number of odd cycles is an odd permutation, so your spinning of the cube affected the parity of the edges to make them odd (if you started from "solved" and if you consider that all the centers have no stickers and you are just solving the pieces). So every quarter turn spin of the cube will change the parity of the edges with respect to the corners. Since it it possible to swap two corners and two edges though you can make this appear to be either two corners or two edges swapped. So if you solve with centers without stickers you will get parity 1/2 the time if you just try to solve the pieces of your cube normally. This is because 12 of the 24 possible rotations of the cube require an odd number of quarter turn spins to get there from the solved state (defined as even). Sorry if that was long winded, but basically if the centers are indistinct (like solving BLD without seeing if your centers are correct) then a parity is possible on the 3x3x3 cube. Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@g...> wrote: > Hey Stefan and Chris, sould you explain how only in half the cases the > parity can be solved? I mean how will it matter where the centers are, > according to my thinking every time we would get a dot in the middle > structure. > > And actually what do u mean an unsolveble parity? Like only 2 corners > to be permuted ? > > Sachin.

Googling "cube patterns" gives as the first result this. http://web.usna.navy.mil/~wdj/patterns2.htm On 9/19/05, Marc <marque88117@...> wrote: > > are their any cool patterns to the 3x3x3 cube beside the one where you > do half turn on all sides > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you very much chris. I understood it fully. had to reread it a couple of times though :) Thanks again. Sachin. On 9/19/05, cmhardw <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > Hey Sachin, > > If you consider solving the pieces around the centers in different > ways, then you have to consider the centers as pieces as well, and no > longer as fixed points. > > The way I think of it is this, do a rotation y (spin the cube like the > move U). > > If you imagine that you just did an algorithm to your cube, you have 4 > cycled the corners in both the U and D layers. Two odd cycles is an > even permutation, so you have left the corner permutation alone in > terms of parity. > > For the edges you have 4 cycled the edges in both the U and D layers, > as well as the middle layer. An odd number of odd cycles is an odd > permutation, so your spinning of the cube affected the parity of the > edges to make them odd (if you started from "solved" and if you > consider that all the centers have no stickers and you are just > solving the pieces). > > So every quarter turn spin of the cube will change the parity of the > edges with respect to the corners. Since it it possible to swap two > corners and two edges though you can make this appear to be either two > corners or two edges swapped. > > So if you solve with centers without stickers you will get parity 1/2 > the time if you just try to solve the pieces of your cube normally. > This is because 12 of the 24 possible rotations of the cube require an > odd number of quarter turn spins to get there from the solved state > (defined as even). > > Sorry if that was long winded, but basically if the centers are > indistinct (like solving BLD without seeing if your centers are > correct) then a parity is possible on the 3x3x3 cube. > > Chris > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar > <sachinss@g...> wrote: > > Hey Stefan and Chris, sould you explain how only in half the cases the > > parity can be solved? I mean how will it matter where the centers are, > > according to my thinking every time we would get a dot in the middle > > structure. > > > > And actually what do u mean an unsolveble parity? Like only 2 corners > > to be permuted ? > > > > Sachin. > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

It seems to me that giving a standard for which color is placed where will undoubtedly favor certain color schemes and competitors over others. If, for example, yellow was chosen for the top, most competitors would be fine, because that seems to be the majority of cubers' preference. Red, I suspect, would give similar results. If blue were chosen for the top, the Japanese color scheme users would be given an advantage, however slight it may be. Basically, I think the entire issue is trivial. In fact, when I start with the cube oriented with my LL color on top, it's often harder for me to be creative and get decent F2L times. However, I think this is a less fair approach to the problem than the current rule. -Mike Bennett --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Tossing in the air? You honestly believe that's easier than following > a rule? Regardless of how difficult it is to toss a cube in the air, I > submit to you that tossing a cube in the air isn't random enough. I > juggle clubs. > > The main point, though, is I would rather be safe. Perhaps my > subconsciousness is really awesome? Furthermore, if the colors are > randomly chosen before, it's one less thing to worry about, and that's > never a bad thing is it? > > I think someone had a cube which could actually be turned by tossing it > into the air too. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 19, 2005, at 3:46 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > > wrote: > >> It doesn't make much sense, but I feel it is a better alternative to > >> randomly selecting colors. Unless there was a random number/color > >> generator/selector nearby, human selection of color would inherently > >> have a slight bias to it. I personally, as a scrambler, would not > > want > >> to be given the task of objectively selecting colors. You know... > > this > >> Stefan guy pissed me off and I notice that this color is easier than > >> the other one, so I won't give that one to him. Of course, no one > >> would ever consciously make the decision. I would like it to be > >> impossible for me to even subconsciously influence the solve in any > >> way. > > > > Ok, that's the first reasonable reason I've heard :-) > > > > Though for scrambling I just grab the cube as it comes. I think in > > this case you overestimate the power of the subconscious ;-). You > > could also toss it in the air before you start. Still "easier" than > > having to follow a rule, I'd claim... > > > > Stefan

Haha ... To avoid self-rotation: Put the cube in a box. Toss the box in the air. Take the cube out again. Simple ;-) -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Tossing in the air? You honestly believe that's easier than following > a rule? Regardless of how difficult it is to toss a cube in the air, I > submit to you that tossing a cube in the air isn't random enough. I > juggle clubs. > > The main point, though, is I would rather be safe. Perhaps my > subconsciousness is really awesome? Furthermore, if the colors are > randomly chosen before, it's one less thing to worry about, and that's > never a bad thing is it? > > I think someone had a cube which could actually be turned by tossing it > into the air too. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 19, 2005, at 3:46 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > > wrote: > >> It doesn't make much sense, but I feel it is a better alternative to > >> randomly selecting colors. Unless there was a random number/color > >> generator/selector nearby, human selection of color would inherently > >> have a slight bias to it. I personally, as a scrambler, would not > > want > >> to be given the task of objectively selecting colors. You know... > > this > >> Stefan guy pissed me off and I notice that this color is easier than > >> the other one, so I won't give that one to him. Of course, no one > >> would ever consciously make the decision. I would like it to be > >> impossible for me to even subconsciously influence the solve in any > >> way. > > > > Ok, that's the first reasonable reason I've heard :-) > > > > Though for scrambling I just grab the cube as it comes. I think in > > this case you overestimate the power of the subconscious ;-). You > > could also toss it in the air before you start. Still "easier" than > > having to follow a rule, I'd claim... > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"undoubtedly favor" certain color schemes?!? I don't see how it favors anybody. You can orient the cube however you like after pre-inspection, can't you? ...and who solves with red on top? :P ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > It seems to me that giving a standard for which color is placed where > will undoubtedly favor certain color schemes and competitors over > others. If, for example, yellow was chosen for the top, most > competitors would be fine, because that seems to be the majority of > cubers' preference. Red, I suspect, would give similar results. If > blue were chosen for the top, the Japanese color scheme users would be > given an advantage, however slight it may be. > > Basically, I think the entire issue is trivial. In fact, when I start > with the cube oriented with my LL color on top, it's often harder for > me to be creative and get decent F2L times. However, I think this is > a less fair approach to the problem than the current rule. > > -Mike Bennett > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > wrote: > > Tossing in the air? You honestly believe that's easier than following > > a rule? Regardless of how difficult it is to toss a cube in the air, I > > submit to you that tossing a cube in the air isn't random enough. I > > juggle clubs. > > > > The main point, though, is I would rather be safe. Perhaps my > > subconsciousness is really awesome? Furthermore, if the colors are > > randomly chosen before, it's one less thing to worry about, and that's > > never a bad thing is it? > > > > I think someone had a cube which could actually be turned by tossing it > > into the air too. > > > > Tyson Mao > > MSC #631 > > California Institute of Technology > > > > On Sep 19, 2005, at 3:46 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > > > wrote: > > >> It doesn't make much sense, but I feel it is a better alternative to > > >> randomly selecting colors. Unless there was a random number/color > > >> generator/selector nearby, human selection of color would inherently > > >> have a slight bias to it. I personally, as a scrambler, would not > > > want > > >> to be given the task of objectively selecting colors. You know... > > > this > > >> Stefan guy pissed me off and I notice that this color is easier than > > >> the other one, so I won't give that one to him. Of course, no one > > >> would ever consciously make the decision. I would like it to be > > >> impossible for me to even subconsciously influence the solve in any > > >> way. > > > > > > Ok, that's the first reasonable reason I've heard :-) > > > > > > Though for scrambling I just grab the cube as it comes. I think in > > > this case you overestimate the power of the subconscious ;-). You > > > could also toss it in the air before you start. Still "easier" than > > > having to follow a rule, I'd claim... > > > > > > Stefan

Of course you can, but being handed the cube in your correct orientation gives you an extra moment, however brief, that you don't have to spend making sure it's correctly oriented. You can use the whole 15 seconds to scout out pieces. -Mike --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> wrote: > "undoubtedly favor" certain color schemes?!? I don't see how it > favors anybody. You can orient the cube however you like after > pre-inspection, can't you? ...and who solves with red on top? :P > > ~ Bob > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > It seems to me that giving a standard for which color is placed where > > will undoubtedly favor certain color schemes and competitors over > > others. If, for example, yellow was chosen for the top, most > > competitors would be fine, because that seems to be the majority of > > cubers' preference. Red, I suspect, would give similar results. If > > blue were chosen for the top, the Japanese color scheme users would be > > given an advantage, however slight it may be. > > > > Basically, I think the entire issue is trivial. In fact, when I start > > with the cube oriented with my LL color on top, it's often harder for > > me to be creative and get decent F2L times. However, I think this is > > a less fair approach to the problem than the current rule. > > > > -Mike Bennett > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > > wrote: > > > Tossing in the air? You honestly believe that's easier than > following > > > a rule? Regardless of how difficult it is to toss a cube in the > air, I > > > submit to you that tossing a cube in the air isn't random enough. I > > > juggle clubs. > > > > > > The main point, though, is I would rather be safe. Perhaps my > > > subconsciousness is really awesome? Furthermore, if the colors are > > > randomly chosen before, it's one less thing to worry about, and > that's > > > never a bad thing is it? > > > > > > I think someone had a cube which could actually be turned by > tossing it > > > into the air too. > > > > > > Tyson Mao > > > MSC #631 > > > California Institute of Technology > > > > > > On Sep 19, 2005, at 3:46 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > > > > wrote: > > > >> It doesn't make much sense, but I feel it is a better > alternative to > > > >> randomly selecting colors. Unless there was a random number/color > > > >> generator/selector nearby, human selection of color would > inherently > > > >> have a slight bias to it. I personally, as a scrambler, would not > > > > want > > > >> to be given the task of objectively selecting colors. You know... > > > > this > > > >> Stefan guy pissed me off and I notice that this color is easier > than > > > >> the other one, so I won't give that one to him. Of course, no one > > > >> would ever consciously make the decision. I would like it to be > > > >> impossible for me to even subconsciously influence the solve in any > > > >> way. > > > > > > > > Ok, that's the first reasonable reason I've heard :-) > > > > > > > > Though for scrambling I just grab the cube as it comes. I think in > > > > this case you overestimate the power of the subconscious ;-). You > > > > could also toss it in the air before you start. Still "easier" than > > > > having to follow a rule, I'd claim... > > > > > > > > Stefan

You should be able to immediately know the orientation of the cube once you see two centers, right? And when you first look at it, wouldn't you check the orientation anyway? After all, you don't want to start memorizing the wrong cross. Even if the cube is oriented the way I would hold it, I still check to make sure that when I start solving the cross, I'll be putting the white edges onto the white side. ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > Of course you can, but being handed the cube in your correct > orientation gives you an extra moment, however brief, that you don't > have to spend making sure it's correctly oriented. You can use the > whole 15 seconds to scout out pieces. > > -Mike > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> > wrote: > > "undoubtedly favor" certain color schemes?!? I don't see how it > > favors anybody. You can orient the cube however you like after > > pre-inspection, can't you? ...and who solves with red on top? :P > > > > ~ Bob > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > > It seems to me that giving a standard for which color is placed where > > > will undoubtedly favor certain color schemes and competitors over > > > others. If, for example, yellow was chosen for the top, most > > > competitors would be fine, because that seems to be the majority of > > > cubers' preference. Red, I suspect, would give similar results. If > > > blue were chosen for the top, the Japanese color scheme users would be > > > given an advantage, however slight it may be. > > > > > > Basically, I think the entire issue is trivial. In fact, when I start > > > with the cube oriented with my LL color on top, it's often harder for > > > me to be creative and get decent F2L times. However, I think this is > > > a less fair approach to the problem than the current rule. > > > > > > -Mike Bennett > > > > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > > > wrote: > > > > Tossing in the air? You honestly believe that's easier than > > following > > > > a rule? Regardless of how difficult it is to toss a cube in the > > air, I > > > > submit to you that tossing a cube in the air isn't random > enough. I > > > > juggle clubs. > > > > > > > > The main point, though, is I would rather be safe. Perhaps my > > > > subconsciousness is really awesome? Furthermore, if the colors are > > > > randomly chosen before, it's one less thing to worry about, and > > that's > > > > never a bad thing is it? > > > > > > > > I think someone had a cube which could actually be turned by > > tossing it > > > > into the air too. > > > > > > > > Tyson Mao > > > > MSC #631 > > > > California Institute of Technology > > > > > > > > On Sep 19, 2005, at 3:46 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao > <tmao@i...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > >> It doesn't make much sense, but I feel it is a better > > alternative to > > > > >> randomly selecting colors. Unless there was a random > number/color > > > > >> generator/selector nearby, human selection of color would > > inherently > > > > >> have a slight bias to it. I personally, as a scrambler, > would not > > > > > want > > > > >> to be given the task of objectively selecting colors. You > know... > > > > > this > > > > >> Stefan guy pissed me off and I notice that this color is easier > > than > > > > >> the other one, so I won't give that one to him. Of course, > no one > > > > >> would ever consciously make the decision. I would like it to be > > > > >> impossible for me to even subconsciously influence the solve > in any > > > > >> way. > > > > > > > > > > Ok, that's the first reasonable reason I've heard :-) > > > > > > > > > > Though for scrambling I just grab the cube as it comes. I think in > > > > > this case you overestimate the power of the subconscious ;-). You > > > > > could also toss it in the air before you start. Still "easier" > than > > > > > having to follow a rule, I'd claim... > > > > > > > > > > Stefan

Practicality please. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 19, 2005, at 7:59 AM, Per Kristen Fredlund wrote: > Haha ... > > To avoid self-rotation: > > Put the cube in a box. Toss the box in the air. Take the cube out > again. Simple ;-) > > -Per > >> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao > <tmao@i...> wrote: >> Tossing in the air? You honestly believe that's easier than > following >> a rule? Regardless of how difficult it is to toss a cube in the > air, I >> submit to you that tossing a cube in the air isn't random enough. > I >> juggle clubs. >> >> The main point, though, is I would rather be safe. Perhaps my >> subconsciousness is really awesome? Furthermore, if the colors > are >> randomly chosen before, it's one less thing to worry about, and > that's >> never a bad thing is it? >> >> I think someone had a cube which could actually be turned by > tossing it >> into the air too. >> >> Tyson Mao >> MSC #631 >> California Institute of Technology >> >> On Sep 19, 2005, at 3:46 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: >> >>> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao > <tmao@i...> >>> wrote: >>>> It doesn't make much sense, but I feel it is a better > alternative to >>>> randomly selecting colors. Unless there was a random > number/color >>>> generator/selector nearby, human selection of color would > inherently >>>> have a slight bias to it. I personally, as a scrambler, would > not >>> want >>>> to be given the task of objectively selecting colors. You > know... >>> this >>>> Stefan guy pissed me off and I notice that this color is easier > than >>>> the other one, so I won't give that one to him. Of course, no > one >>>> would ever consciously make the decision. I would like it to be >>>> impossible for me to even subconsciously influence the solve in > any >>>> way. >>> >>> Ok, that's the first reasonable reason I've heard :-) >>> >>> Though for scrambling I just grab the cube as it comes. I think > in >>> this case you overestimate the power of the subconscious ;-). You >>> could also toss it in the air before you start. Still "easier" > than >>> having to follow a rule, I'd claim... >>> >>> Stefan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

> ...and who solves with red on top? :P I believe that Andy Camman does.

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, nascarjon2001 <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > ...and who solves with red on top? :P > > > I believe that Andy Camman does. I thought Lars Petrus did, too. -Mike

Does anybody solve with orange on top? I think Richard Patterson keeps green as his U-face. ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, nascarjon2001 > <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > > ...and who solves with red on top? :P > > > > > > I believe that Andy Camman does. > > I thought Lars Petrus did, too. > > -Mike

Are these cases really worth learning? I mean, most of the other COLL algs are just as quick as any normal OLL alg for that case, but Sunes and Antisunes take .7-.8 seconds. I would think it would just be quicker to do that and take the slower PLL. Maybe it's just my laziness talking, but I really don't think it would be worth it to learn these. Anybody care to prove me wrong? -Jason

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Baum" <speedrunningcuber@y...> wrote: > Are these cases really worth learning? I mean, most of the other COLL > algs are just as quick as any normal OLL alg for that case, but Sunes > and Antisunes take .7-.8 seconds. I would think it would just be > quicker to do that and take the slower PLL. Maybe it's just my > laziness talking, but I really don't think it would be worth it to > learn these. Anybody care to prove me wrong? > > -Jason I can do L U' R'U L'U'R (U2) in a little over a second. Couple that with an edge PLL, and that makes for a sub-3 LL. Seems worth it to me... -Mike

I know all of COLL except for the Sune cases. I believe Macky doesn't do COLL for the Sune cases. He's pretty fast. Leyan Jason Baum wrote: > Are these cases really worth learning? I mean, most of the other COLL > algs are just as quick as any normal OLL alg for that case, but Sunes > and Antisunes take .7-.8 seconds. I would think it would just be > quicker to do that and take the slower PLL. Maybe it's just my > laziness talking, but I really don't think it would be worth it to > learn these. Anybody care to prove me wrong? > > -Jason > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Hi :-) It was only a joke. The box would need to fit closely around the cube. And also you'd just take the cube out of the box the same way you put it there ... :-P -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Practicality please. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 19, 2005, at 7:59 AM, Per Kristen Fredlund wrote: > > > Haha ... > > > > To avoid self-rotation: > > > > Put the cube in a box. Toss the box in the air. Take the cube out > > again. Simple ;-) > > > > -Per > > > >> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao > > <tmao@i...> wrote: > >> Tossing in the air? You honestly believe that's easier than > > following > >> a rule? Regardless of how difficult it is to toss a cube in the > > air, I > >> submit to you that tossing a cube in the air isn't random enough. > > I > >> juggle clubs. > >> > >> The main point, though, is I would rather be safe. Perhaps my > >> subconsciousness is really awesome? Furthermore, if the colors > > are > >> randomly chosen before, it's one less thing to worry about, and > > that's > >> never a bad thing is it? > >> > >> I think someone had a cube which could actually be turned by > > tossing it > >> into the air too. > >> > >> Tyson Mao > >> MSC #631 > >> California Institute of Technology > >> > >> On Sep 19, 2005, at 3:46 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: > >> > >>> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao > > <tmao@i...> > >>> wrote: > >>>> It doesn't make much sense, but I feel it is a better > > alternative to > >>>> randomly selecting colors. Unless there was a random > > number/color > >>>> generator/selector nearby, human selection of color would > > inherently > >>>> have a slight bias to it. I personally, as a scrambler, would > > not > >>> want > >>>> to be given the task of objectively selecting colors. You > > know... > >>> this > >>>> Stefan guy pissed me off and I notice that this color is easier > > than > >>>> the other one, so I won't give that one to him. Of course, no > > one > >>>> would ever consciously make the decision. I would like it to be > >>>> impossible for me to even subconsciously influence the solve in > > any > >>>> way. > >>> > >>> Ok, that's the first reasonable reason I've heard :-) > >>> > >>> Though for scrambling I just grab the cube as it comes. I think > > in > >>> this case you overestimate the power of the subconscious ;-). You > >>> could also toss it in the air before you start. Still "easier" > > than > >>> having to follow a rule, I'd claim... > >>> > >>> Stefan > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Yeah, sorry about that. I didn't realize it. I pictured this huge box where the cube could roll around in and you could play salsa music and shake the box, the cube, and your body all at the same time. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 19, 2005, at 11:43 AM, Per Kristen Fredlund wrote: > Hi :-) > > It was only a joke. The box would need to fit closely around the > cube. And also you'd just take the cube out of the box the same way > you put it there ... :-P > > -Per > >> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao > <tmao@i...> wrote: >> Practicality please. >> >> Tyson Mao >> MSC #631 >> California Institute of Technology >> >> On Sep 19, 2005, at 7:59 AM, Per Kristen Fredlund wrote: >> >>> Haha ... >>> >>> To avoid self-rotation: >>> >>> Put the cube in a box. Toss the box in the air. Take the cube out >>> again. Simple ;-) >>> >>> -Per >>> >>>> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao >>> <tmao@i...> wrote: >>>> Tossing in the air? You honestly believe that's easier than >>> following >>>> a rule? Regardless of how difficult it is to toss a cube in the >>> air, I >>>> submit to you that tossing a cube in the air isn't random > enough. >>> I >>>> juggle clubs. >>>> >>>> The main point, though, is I would rather be safe. Perhaps my >>>> subconsciousness is really awesome? Furthermore, if the colors >>> are >>>> randomly chosen before, it's one less thing to worry about, and >>> that's >>>> never a bad thing is it? >>>> >>>> I think someone had a cube which could actually be turned by >>> tossing it >>>> into the air too. >>>> >>>> Tyson Mao >>>> MSC #631 >>>> California Institute of Technology >>>> >>>> On Sep 19, 2005, at 3:46 AM, Stefan Pochmann wrote: >>>> >>>>> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao >>> <tmao@i...> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> It doesn't make much sense, but I feel it is a better >>> alternative to >>>>>> randomly selecting colors. Unless there was a random >>> number/color >>>>>> generator/selector nearby, human selection of color would >>> inherently >>>>>> have a slight bias to it. I personally, as a scrambler, would >>> not >>>>> want >>>>>> to be given the task of objectively selecting colors. You >>> know... >>>>> this >>>>>> Stefan guy pissed me off and I notice that this color is > easier >>> than >>>>>> the other one, so I won't give that one to him. Of course, no >>> one >>>>>> would ever consciously make the decision. I would like it to > be >>>>>> impossible for me to even subconsciously influence the solve > in >>> any >>>>>> way. >>>>> >>>>> Ok, that's the first reasonable reason I've heard :-) >>>>> >>>>> Though for scrambling I just grab the cube as it comes. I think >>> in >>>>> this case you overestimate the power of the subconscious ;-). > You >>>>> could also toss it in the air before you start. Still "easier" >>> than >>>>> having to follow a rule, I'd claim... >>>>> >>>>> Stefan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Yo!! White is the U-face for me, unless another first face really sticks out as better. I do basically sorta LBL for all kinds of cubes with U as first face. White as U should also be good for say fridrich and then ending with OLL and PLL on the white face/layer. For fridrich maybe simply the easiest cross will decide? Oh well ... Cheers! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> wrote: > Does anybody solve with orange on top? I think Richard Patterson > keeps green as his U-face. > > ~ Bob > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, nascarjon2001 > > <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > > > ...and who solves with red on top? :P > > > > > > > > > I believe that Andy Camman does. > > > > I thought Lars Petrus did, too. > > > > -Mike

----- Original Message ----- From: Tyson Mao To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 5:49 AM Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Re: World Championship Isn't that just a uniform? I guess this would be considered a uniform. I'd like to hope, though I know this isn't true, that if someone is smart enough to solve a Rubik's Cube, then they're smart enough not to wear clothing with alcohol or tobacco slogans, profanity, vulgarity, obscenities, and that they've got enough control to refrain from promoting any messages (such as Hawaiian Independence or Join My Cult) at an international event where people from different backgrounds and cultures may be sensitive to things which we take for granted. While alcohol annd tobacco are not illegal and are somewhat acceptable, the rest is a definite not. I do not remember this being an issue at WC2003. I guess this is the one time I can smile at my perfectly mundane wardrobe. Oh, except for that one prank t-shirt. I won't be wearing that one to WC 2005. I plan on taking my WC2003 t-shirt with me to WC2005. But some lifestyles and religions smack in the face of others. Don't know how to get around this. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 19, 2005, at 2:39 AM, Peter Douthwright wrote: > Another simple solution to this problem would be to give t-shirts to > everyone and say that they must wear them at all competitions. > > This would work for something big like theWC2005, But for smaller > tourneys, I guess "offensive" would be dicided by the organizing > commity. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: kirk83616 > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 4:48 AM > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: World Championship > > > I agree completely. It would be far too difficult if not impossible > to craft language covering every possible way someone might wear > something that would be offensive to someone (or even to many). And > even if you covered all the language or types of pictures that could > be offensive, I can think of some outfits that don't have pictures or > words but would still be offensive to many. > > I suppose we could require everyone to wear uniforms to compete. > That's one way to eliminate this risk. > > The other more practical solution is to imbue the WCA delegate with > discretion to determine on an ad hoc basis if something is so > offensive that the person wearing it should not be allowed to compete > while wearing it. I would hope that such determinations would be > limited to something extremely vulgar or pornographic, which is how I > would interpret the "vulgar or offensive" terms in the rules. You > could include a safe-gap measure that such a determination would need > to be ratified by 3 other judges so that a capricious judge's > decision > wouldn't be final, and you could even allow the competitor a few > minutes to change or something. > > But has this really been an issue historically, or is this just much > ado about nothing? Can't we just encourage other people to try to > use > some common sense and try not to take offense at the ideas others try > to express? > --Kirk > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Tregay" > <Grant@T...> wrote: >> --- thewetdog wrote: >>> ... What I am asking about is not offensive in its primary message. >>> [snip] >>> I would think someone showing up decked out in a Camel or Marlboro >>> outfit because the company, for publicity, is sponsoring him or her >>> would be extremely bad taste. But I now understand that there are >>> no real rules on the subject. Do we wait until this situation >>> arises to make a rule, or do we just say that it is all fair game? >> >> Whether you wait until the situation arises or not, I believe this >> would be an extremely difficult issue to address in rules. Where to >> draw the line between what is okay, and what is too much, would be >> subjective, and opinions could vary widely. >> >> - Grant > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games > Educational game and puzzle > Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Does anyone first solve "whichever face looks most promising"? I did that for the longest time, but for the past few months I've been switching to a fixed side, whichever side yields Orange, Yellow, Red in that order from left to right. On my usual white vs blue YOB cube that's the white side, leaving blue on top. On a white vs yellow BOY cube it's the blue side, leaving green on top. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > Yo!! > > White is the U-face for me, unless another first face really sticks > out as better. I do basically sorta LBL for all kinds of cubes with > U as first face. White as U should also be good for say fridrich and > then ending with OLL and PLL on the white face/layer. For fridrich > maybe simply the easiest cross will decide? > > Oh well ... > > Cheers! > > -Per

Hey! I just finished building my timer. I tried to make something similar to Stackmat, so I can practice a bit. Here are a photo and a little video: www.geocities.com/cubomagicobrasil/timer.jpg www.geocities.com/cubomagicobrasil/timer.WMV I just can't do it start when I leave my hands from the pads, so I have to press the pads to start and stop time. Any comments or questions are welcome. Pedro

I noticed when I was signing up for the World Championship that "THE ONLY CUBES ALLOWED FOR COMPETITION ROUNDS MUST BE AUTHENTIC RUBIK'S BRAND CUBES." (Sorry for the yelling, it's their fault). I realize they are a large sponsor of the competition, but I thought we had the WCA make competition regulations to govern things like this. I think it would be a shame to lower the level of competition, simply because people can't use their preferred puzzles! Anyway, I suppose I put this here for two reasons. First, I'm hoping for either confirmation or an overrule from a WCA official (Ron, Tyson, other?). Also, I thought it'd be good to put here, in case some people hadn't "read the small print", so they can start working on breaking in a Rubik's brand 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 as soon as possible. - Grant P.S. My feelings on "preferred puzzles" also extends to painted cubes. I personally disagree with the regulation that disallows them. If well done, painted cubes can look great for a long time. Also, (if done right) they allow less "looking around the corners", than tiled puzzles. While you can't have a blanket allowance for painted cubes, no such provision needs to be made, since all cubes are up to judges' approval.

I almost want them to leave it, just to whittle down the bigger cube competition. ;) -Mike --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Tregay" <Grant@T...> wrote: > I noticed when I was signing up for the World Championship that "THE > ONLY CUBES ALLOWED FOR COMPETITION ROUNDS MUST BE AUTHENTIC RUBIK'S > BRAND CUBES." (Sorry for the yelling, it's their fault). I realize > they are a large sponsor of the competition, but I thought we had > the WCA make competition regulations to govern things like this. I > think it would be a shame to lower the level of competition, simply > because people can't use their preferred puzzles! > > Anyway, I suppose I put this here for two reasons. First, I'm > hoping for either confirmation or an overrule from a WCA official > (Ron, Tyson, other?). Also, I thought it'd be good to put here, in > case some people hadn't "read the small print", so they can start > working on breaking in a Rubik's brand 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 as soon as > possible. > > - Grant > > P.S. My feelings on "preferred puzzles" also extends to painted > cubes. I personally disagree with the regulation that disallows > them. If well done, painted cubes can look great for a long time. > Also, (if done right) they allow less "looking around the corners", > than tiled puzzles. While you can't have a blanket allowance for > painted cubes, no such provision needs to be made, since all cubes > are up to judges' approval.

Hi Tyson, --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > [snip] > Furthermore, selecting random colors at the competition is another way, > though there really shouldn't be any doubt, to further show that I am > indeed running a fair competition. I've no doubt you run a fair competition. > After WC 2003, I try to make it a > point that randomly generated scrambles are not checked for 'luckiness' > because there is not uniform definition for luckiness. Do you screen the "random" tournament scrambles by running them through solving programs and throwing out any that are solved in fewer than, say, 18 moves? Do you screen those scrambles for ones containing completed crosses, or that have four corners already solved? Regards, David J P.S. Some of this stuff is funny to me because I use a non-BOY color scheme and a method which is not cross-first. > Also, it's fun to say I stand for equal rights. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > >

Yes, definately give it a shot! I'd love to hear this one. -Danieil --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Duncan Dicks" <duncan@d...> wrote: > I'll see what i can do! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kirk83616" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:46 AM > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Cube song help - found them all! - just > found an old cube song - very funny > > > > Can you copy that to your computer?? I know it's vinyl, but it's > > possible to burn it to an mp3 with the right set up, and I imagine > > I'm not alone in saying I'd love to hear it... > > --Kirk > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Duncan Dicks" > > <duncan@d...> wrote: > >> Hmmm i thought i sent this once but my connectionnwas playing up > > last night. > >> Apologies if it did get sent: > >> > >> > >> An old thread I know but ... > >> I was searching through some old vinyl - LPs and singles from a > > long time > >> ago - and I found a single that I forgot I had. I won it in the > > 1982 (3?) > >> Radio Budapest fewest moves competition along with other > > memorabilia. Its > >> made in Hungary but sung in English and word sheet is included so > > repeated > >> below. Side B is called Hungarian Goulash for two and its signed > > by the > >> artists (Bea Muszty and Andras Dobay). Enjoy! > >> > >> Trick in the Middle (Rubik's Cube) > >> by B Muszty and A Dobey > >> > >> If you miss the evening train > >> And you're standing in the rain > >> - life's not roses all the way > >> When your tax return is false > >> And you've bet on the wrong horse > >> - the Cube won't lead you astray > >> > >> Taking a sunbath on the beach > >> For a magazine you reach > >> - life's not roses all the way > >> Headlines seem to have no meaning > >> And you're sceptical of reading > >> - the Cube won't lead you astray > >> > >> Try to harmonize the colours of your life > >> Or the faces of the Cube to be alike > >> You can twist, twiddle and fiddle > >> But the trick's in the middle > >> of the Cube - Rubik Rubik's Cube > >> > >> Your son's taking drugs > >> Your house if full of bugs > >> - life's not roses all the way > >> No one calls you honey > >> Your wife drinks all your money > >> - the Cube won't lead you astray > >> > >> When your true love is gone > >> Don't you look for your gun > >> - life's not roses all the way > >> Don't you weep, don't you mourn > >> You can fiddle on your own ... > >> - the Cube won't lead you astray > >> > >> Try to harmonize the colours of your life > >> Or the faces of the Cube to be alike > >> You can twist, twiddle and fiddle > >> But the trick's in the middle > >> of the Cube - Rubik Rubik's Cube > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Daniel Hayes" <swedishlf@h...> > >> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 7:20 AM > >> Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Cube song help - found them all! > >> > >> > >> > OK, sorry to spam the boards guys but I this was driving me > > crazy. > >> > Last post on the subject, I promise! I've been searching all > > day and > >> > finally found out every thing I need to know. > >> > > >> > Song 1 - You folks were kind enough to point me to a download > > of "Mr. > >> > Rubik" By The Barron Knights. That was the easy one! > >> > > >> > Song 2 - After much searching, the secret lies in post number > > 2715 of > >> > our very own group. The song is "Rubik's Cube" by the Amateur > > Lovers > >> > off the 1997 album Virgin White Lies. I posted it on > > www.putfile.com > >> > , which I've never used before so let me know if it works: > >> > http://media.putfile.com/RubiksCube26 It's a fantastic song, and > >> > there were many responses to the original post about it. Odd > > that > >> > none of us remembered them. > >> > > >> > Song 3 - "This Rubik's Cube is Driving me Crazy!" - Eric Drysdale > >> > Originally aired on Comedy Central's Premium Blend episode 307 > > and (I > >> > think) can be found on Comic Remix episode 116. I'll have to > > keep an > >> > eye out on the comedy central tv listings, and see if Mr. > > Drysdale > >> > responds to my request. I'd like to have a copy of it. > >> > > >> > Other songs I found during the search: > >> > "Your Cat Can do the Cube" - Ronnie Allen & the Missing Pieces > > from > >> > The Dr. Demento Show #82-41 - 10/10/82 > >> > > >> > "I can't do The Cube" - Ronnie Allen & the Missing Pieces > >> > > >> > "The Cube" - Bob Jenkins > >> > > >> > "Cubic Refugee" - Stevens & Grdnic (not a typo) from The Dr. > > Demento > >> > Show #82-22 - May 30, 1982 > >> > > >> > I have been unable to find copies of any of these yet, though I > > do > >> > have partial lyrics for some. > >> > > >> > Thanks for the help, and I'm happy I can finally sleep! > >> > > >> > -Daniel > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I solve "whichever face looks most promising," and as such, I don't care how the scrambler holds my cube. I must admit, I do not really understand why choosing a color to hold on top during a scramble has any real effect on the solution. Since so many people do care, I would bet it does have an effect, I just fail to see it. Anyone care to explain? -Daniel --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "kwickykanny" <kwickykanny@e...> wrote: > Does anyone first solve "whichever face looks most promising"? I did > that for the longest time, but for the past few months I've been > switching to a fixed side, whichever side yields Orange, Yellow, Red in > that order from left to right. On my usual white vs blue YOB cube > that's the white side, leaving blue on top. On a white vs yellow BOY > cube it's the blue side, leaving green on top. >

That's not a prototype! Where's the electrical tape and exposed wiring!?! It's far to pretty to be just bodged together ;). Really, it looks very nice and effective, probably simpler than the one I made earlier. If I ever get around to designing the logic circuit that makes it behave like a stackmat, I'll be sure to let you know! -Daniel --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "pedrosino1" <pedrosino1@y...> wrote: > Hey! > I just finished building my timer. I tried to make something similar to > Stackmat, so I can practice a bit. Here are a photo and a little video: > > www.geocities.com/cubomagicobrasil/timer.jpg > www.geocities.com/cubomagicobrasil/timer.WMV > > I just can't do it start when I leave my hands from the pads, so I have > to press the pads to start and stop time. Any comments or questions are > welcome. > > Pedro

All of the Sune/AntiSune COLL cases are very fast. None of the algs I know for these cases (and I know all these cases) are slow. :P By this, I mean all these algorithms are sub-2 seconds. ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Baum" <speedrunningcuber@y...> wrote: > Are these cases really worth learning? I mean, most of the other COLL > algs are just as quick as any normal OLL alg for that case, but Sunes > and Antisunes take .7-.8 seconds. I would think it would just be > quicker to do that and take the slower PLL. Maybe it's just my > laziness talking, but I really don't think it would be worth it to > learn these. Anybody care to prove me wrong? > > -Jason

Just wondering, do we get t-shirts at the rwc? --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Douthwright" <pdouthwright0513@r...> wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tyson Mao > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 5:49 AM > Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Re: World Championship > > > Isn't that just a uniform? > I guess this would be considered a uniform. > > > > I'd like to hope, though I know this isn't true, that if someone is > smart enough to solve a Rubik's Cube, then they're smart enough not to > wear clothing with alcohol or tobacco slogans, profanity, vulgarity, > obscenities, and that they've got enough control to refrain from > promoting any messages (such as Hawaiian Independence or Join My Cult) > at an international event where people from different backgrounds and > cultures may be sensitive to things which we take for granted. > > While alcohol annd tobacco are not illegal and are somewhat acceptable, the rest is a definite not. > I do not remember this being an issue at WC2003. > > I guess this is the one time I can smile at my perfectly mundane > wardrobe. Oh, except for that one prank t-shirt. I won't be wearing > that one to WC 2005. > > I plan on taking my WC2003 t-shirt with me to WC2005. But some lifestyles and religions smack > in the face of others. Don't know how to get around this. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 19, 2005, at 2:39 AM, Peter Douthwright wrote: > > > Another simple solution to this problem would be to give t- shirts to > > everyone and say that they must wear them at all competitions. > > > > This would work for something big like theWC2005, But for smaller > > tourneys, I guess "offensive" would be dicided by the organizing > > commity. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: kirk83616 > > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 4:48 AM > > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: World Championship > > > > > > I agree completely. It would be far too difficult if not impossible > > to craft language covering every possible way someone might wear > > something that would be offensive to someone (or even to many). And > > even if you covered all the language or types of pictures that could > > be offensive, I can think of some outfits that don't have pictures or > > words but would still be offensive to many. > > > > I suppose we could require everyone to wear uniforms to compete. > > That's one way to eliminate this risk. > > > > The other more practical solution is to imbue the WCA delegate with > > discretion to determine on an ad hoc basis if something is so > > offensive that the person wearing it should not be allowed to compete > > while wearing it. I would hope that such determinations would be > > limited to something extremely vulgar or pornographic, which is how I > > would interpret the "vulgar or offensive" terms in the rules. You > > could include a safe-gap measure that such a determination would need > > to be ratified by 3 other judges so that a capricious judge's > > decision > > wouldn't be final, and you could even allow the competitor a few > > minutes to change or something. > > > > But has this really been an issue historically, or is this just much > > ado about nothing? Can't we just encourage other people to try to > > use > > some common sense and try not to take offense at the ideas others try > > to express? > > --Kirk > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Tregay" > > <Grant@T...> wrote: > >> --- thewetdog wrote: > >>> ... What I am asking about is not offensive in its primary message. > >>> [snip] > >>> I would think someone showing up decked out in a Camel or Marlboro > >>> outfit because the company, for publicity, is sponsoring him or her > >>> would be extremely bad taste. But I now understand that there are > >>> no real rules on the subject. Do we wait until this situation > >>> arises to make a rule, or do we just say that it is all fair game? > >> > >> Whether you wait until the situation arises or not, I believe this > >> would be an extremely difficult issue to address in rules. Where to > >> draw the line between what is okay, and what is too much, would be > >> subjective, and opinions could vary widely. > >> > >> - Grant > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games > > Educational game and puzzle > > Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > > ------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle > Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Let me go dig through my cupboards and look for my most vulgar shirt...hmmmm...I guess there are none, I'll go buy one for WC2005 Craig --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Isn't that just a uniform? > > I'd like to hope, though I know this isn't true, that if someone is > smart enough to solve a Rubik's Cube, then they're smart enough not to > wear clothing with alcohol or tobacco slogans, profanity, vulgarity, > obscenities, and that they've got enough control to refrain from > promoting any messages (such as Hawaiian Independence or Join My Cult) > at an international event where people from different backgrounds and > cultures may be sensitive to things which we take for granted. > > I guess this is the one time I can smile at my perfectly mundane > wardrobe. Oh, except for that one prank t-shirt. I won't be wearing > that one to WC 2005. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 19, 2005, at 2:39 AM, Peter Douthwright wrote: > > > Another simple solution to this problem would be to give t-shirts to > > everyone and say that they must wear them at all competitions. > > > > This would work for something big like theWC2005, But for smaller > > tourneys, I guess "offensive" would be dicided by the organizing > > commity. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: kirk83616 > > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 4:48 AM > > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: World Championship > > > > > > I agree completely. It would be far too difficult if not impossible > > to craft language covering every possible way someone might wear > > something that would be offensive to someone (or even to many). And > > even if you covered all the language or types of pictures that could > > be offensive, I can think of some outfits that don't have pictures or > > words but would still be offensive to many. > > > > I suppose we could require everyone to wear uniforms to compete. > > That's one way to eliminate this risk. > > > > The other more practical solution is to imbue the WCA delegate with > > discretion to determine on an ad hoc basis if something is so > > offensive that the person wearing it should not be allowed to compete > > while wearing it. I would hope that such determinations would be > > limited to something extremely vulgar or pornographic, which is how I > > would interpret the "vulgar or offensive" terms in the rules. You > > could include a safe-gap measure that such a determination would need > > to be ratified by 3 other judges so that a capricious judge's > > decision > > wouldn't be final, and you could even allow the competitor a few > > minutes to change or something. > > > > But has this really been an issue historically, or is this just much > > ado about nothing? Can't we just encourage other people to try to > > use > > some common sense and try not to take offense at the ideas others try > > to express? > > --Kirk > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Tregay" > > <Grant@T...> wrote: > >> --- thewetdog wrote: > >>> ... What I am asking about is not offensive in its primary message. > >>> [snip] > >>> I would think someone showing up decked out in a Camel or Marlboro > >>> outfit because the company, for publicity, is sponsoring him or her > >>> would be extremely bad taste. But I now understand that there are > >>> no real rules on the subject. Do we wait until this situation > >>> arises to make a rule, or do we just say that it is all fair game? > >> > >> Whether you wait until the situation arises or not, I believe this > >> would be an extremely difficult issue to address in rules. Where to > >> draw the line between what is okay, and what is too much, would be > >> subjective, and opinions could vary widely. > >> > >> - Grant > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games > > Educational game and puzzle > > Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Hey Daniel, Thanks. It's not hard to do. All the wiring is between the two pieces of wood. I used an inexpensive stopwatch and changed the buttons for wire. Here are the schematics: www.geocities.com/cubomagicobrasil/cronometro.jpg Pedro Daniel Hayes <swedishlf@...> escreveu: That's not a prototype! Where's the electrical tape and exposed wiring!?! It's far to pretty to be just bodged together ;). Really, it looks very nice and effective, probably simpler than the one I made earlier. If I ever get around to designing the logic circuit that makes it behave like a stackmat, I'll be sure to let you know! -Daniel --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "pedrosino1" <pedrosino1@y...> wrote: > Hey! > I just finished building my timer. I tried to make something similar to > Stackmat, so I can practice a bit. Here are a photo and a little video: > > www.geocities.com/cubomagicobrasil/timer.jpg > www.geocities.com/cubomagicobrasil/timer.WMV > > I just can't do it start when I leave my hands from the pads, so I have > to press the pads to start and stop time. Any comments or questions are > welcome. > > Pedro SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Converse com seus amigos em tempo real com o Yahoo! Messenger http://br.download.yahoo.com/messenger/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I got my first (two) sub-30 one-handed solves tonight! 29.95 and then shortly afterwards, 29.85! :) Just barely, but enough to excite me! ;) ~ Bob

Sorry, the link is: www.geocities.com/cubomagicobrasil/cronometro.JPG Pedro <pedrosino1@...> escreveu: Hey Daniel, Thanks. It's not hard to do. All the wiring is between the two pieces of wood. I used an inexpensive stopwatch and changed the buttons for wire. Here are the schematics: www.geocities.com/cubomagicobrasil/cronometro.jpg Pedro Daniel Hayes <swedishlf@...> escreveu: That's not a prototype! Where's the electrical tape and exposed wiring!?! It's far to pretty to be just bodged together ;). Really, it looks very nice and effective, probably simpler than the one I made earlier. If I ever get around to designing the logic circuit that makes it behave like a stackmat, I'll be sure to let you know! -Daniel --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "pedrosino1" <pedrosino1@y...> wrote: > Hey! > I just finished building my timer. I tried to make something similar to > Stackmat, so I can practice a bit. Here are a photo and a little video: > > www.geocities.com/cubomagicobrasil/timer.jpg > www.geocities.com/cubomagicobrasil/timer.WMV > > I just can't do it start when I leave my hands from the pads, so I have > to press the pads to start and stop time. Any comments or questions are > welcome. > > Pedro SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Converse com seus amigos em tempo real com o Yahoo! Messenger http://br.download.yahoo.com/messenger/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Converse com seus amigos em tempo real com o Yahoo! Messenger http://br.download.yahoo.com/messenger/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry, the link is: www.geocities.com/cubomagicobrasil/cronometro.JPG Pedro <pedrosino1@...> escreveu: Hey Daniel, Thanks. It's not hard to do. All the wiring is between the two pieces of wood. I used an inexpensive stopwatch and changed the buttons for wire. Here are the schematics: www.geocities.com/cubomagicobrasil/cronometro.jpg Pedro Daniel Hayes <swedishlf@...> escreveu: That's not a prototype! Where's the electrical tape and exposed wiring!?! It's far to pretty to be just bodged together ;). Really, it looks very nice and effective, probably simpler than the one I made earlier. If I ever get around to designing the logic circuit that makes it behave like a stackmat, I'll be sure to let you know! -Daniel --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "pedrosino1" <pedrosino1@y...> wrote: > Hey! > I just finished building my timer. I tried to make something similar to > Stackmat, so I can practice a bit. Here are a photo and a little video: > > www.geocities.com/cubomagicobrasil/timer.jpg > www.geocities.com/cubomagicobrasil/timer.WMV > > I just can't do it start when I leave my hands from the pads, so I have > to press the pads to start and stop time. Any comments or questions are > welcome. > > Pedro SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Converse com seus amigos em tempo real com o Yahoo! Messenger http://br.download.yahoo.com/messenger/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Novo Yahoo! Messenger com voz: ligações, Yahoo! Avatars, novos emoticons e muito mais. Instale agora! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Snap! I solved whichever side for ages but have switched to yellow on my usual cube but white on others so the sides come out the same. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kwickykanny" <kwickykanny@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 9:11 PM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Rule and Competition Proposals > Does anyone first solve "whichever face looks most promising"? I did > that for the longest time, but for the past few months I've been > switching to a fixed side, whichever side yields Orange, Yellow, Red in > that order from left to right. On my usual white vs blue YOB cube > that's the white side, leaving blue on top. On a white vs yellow BOY > cube it's the blue side, leaving green on top. > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" > <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: >> Yo!! >> >> White is the U-face for me, unless another first face really sticks >> out as better. I do basically sorta LBL for all kinds of cubes with >> U as first face. White as U should also be good for say fridrich and >> then ending with OLL and PLL on the white face/layer. For fridrich >> maybe simply the easiest cross will decide? >> >> Oh well ... >> >> Cheers! >> >> -Per > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

I was surprised at how much effect always starting with the same colour had on times. I think its back to the mechanical v. understanding discussion. "Mechanical" is better for speed - sadly! Duncan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Hayes" <swedishlf@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:53 PM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Rule and Competition Proposals >I solve "whichever face looks most promising," and as such, I don't > care how the scrambler holds my cube. I must admit, I do not really > understand why choosing a color to hold on top during a scramble has > any real effect on the solution. Since so many people do care, I > would bet it does have an effect, I just fail to see it. Anyone care > to explain? > > -Daniel > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "kwickykanny" > <kwickykanny@e...> wrote: >> Does anyone first solve "whichever face looks most promising"? I did >> that for the longest time, but for the past few months I've been >> switching to a fixed side, whichever side yields Orange, Yellow, Red in >> that order from left to right. On my usual white vs blue YOB cube >> that's the white side, leaving blue on top. On a white vs yellow BOY >> cube it's the blue side, leaving green on top. >> > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Fantastic Bob! Im still up in the 40 seconds plus bracket. Still I don't have the motivation of the WC. Duncan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Burton" <bob@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 1:55 AM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Sub-30! >I got my first (two) sub-30 one-handed solves tonight! 29.95 and then > shortly afterwards, 29.85! :) Just barely, but enough to excite me! ;) > > ~ Bob > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

What about shirt that says "Cubing sucks" or something like that :D 2005/9/20, Craig Bouchard <logitewty@...>: > Let me go dig through my cupboards and look for my most vulgar > shirt...hmmmm...I guess there are none, I'll go buy one for WC2005 > > Craig

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hayes" <swedishlf@h...> wrote: > I solve "whichever face looks most promising," and as such, I don't > care how the scrambler holds my cube. I must admit, I do not really > understand why choosing a color to hold on top during a scramble has > any real effect on the solution. Since so many people do care, I > would bet it does have an effect, I just fail to see it. Anyone care > to explain? The original problem is, how to give the same chances to every competitor? 1) They should be given the same cubes, i.e. the same scramble applied to the same color scheme. 2) Competitors should not be able to see others' solves on the scene or on a live display. (maybe that's what they did in 1982?) Let's focus on 1). Since you can't force everybody to use the same color scheme, a choice has to be made about the reference colors to use (cube orientation), with minimum bias and organizational constraints. Gilles.

My 3x3 cube is bought in a shop here in Spain "off the shelf", and I have been advised against taking it apart. I know how the center section functions, but what baffles me is the following: Let 3 adjacent sides be called A, B and C, and their common corner cube X.If you pivot A, X follows it, securely fixed to it. When is A back in place,pivot B. X now pivots together with B, equally fixed to B. The same goes for C if you pivot that. How can X be equally well fixed to the three adjacent sides and yet move independently of two of them at a time? There must be some kind of very stable yet easily "giving away" coupling device that works in either of the three directions. That is what I want to find out. Regards, Per

Dear All. There will be T-shirts given on registration in November but wearing them is not compulsary ! Dave --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > What about shirt that says "Cubing sucks" or something like that :D > > 2005/9/20, Craig Bouchard <logitewty@h...>: > > Let me go dig through my cupboards and look for my most vulgar > > shirt...hmmmm...I guess there are none, I'll go buy one for WC2005 > > > > Craig

hello sir and all my friends of this wonderful group, I am new member of this group.Friends i am not able to solve following puzzle.If any one of you can help me in finding soloution then i will be very help full.please reply soon. BOYwas going a long term behind the bars for ‘flirting with my daughter’ as said the King. When the King learnt from his advisers that marriages are made in heaven’ he was not too sure; so he decided to try it out. "There’s a door on your left and a door on your right," said the King to BOY, "one of these leads to the princess and the other to a ferocious tiger. You are permitted just one question, which will be answered by the Court Jester in ‘Yes’, or ‘No’. However, he may choose to answer truthfully or tell a lie. Thereafter you take the door you like and either you have my daughter or the tiger has you --------------------------------- Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think you're in the wrong group. This one is about *twisty* puzzles, e.g. Rubik's Cube. About your puzzle: I believe it's incomplete (not only because the question is missing). There are several versions of this puzzle but this one is impossible. Stefan --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, neeraj kumar <georgian_neeraj@y...> wrote: > > hello sir and all my friends of this wonderful group, > > I am new member of this group.Friends i am not able to solve following puzzle.If any one of you can help me in finding soloution then i will be very help full.please reply soon. > > > > > > BOYwas going a long term behind the bars for `flirting with my daughter' as said the King. When the King learnt from his advisers that marriages are made in heaven' he was not too sure; so he decided to try it out. > > "There's a door on your left and a door on your right," said the King to BOY, "one of these leads to the princess and the other to a ferocious tiger. You are permitted just one question, which will be answered by the Court Jester in `Yes', or `No'. However, he may choose to answer truthfully or tell a lie. Thereafter you take the door you like and either you have my daughter or the tiger has you > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Congrats Bob! I'm still waiting for a sub 30 solve myself. I've come close on a lot of solves though (best is 31.68). What are you averaging now?

Unless its a very different design to any other cube then just take it apart and see whatever the shop says! You won't harm it and its a much better way to find out than reading and explanation. Good luck Duncan ----- Original Message ----- From: "per4casso" <LASSEN@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 12:48 PM Subject: [Speed cubing group] 3x3 cube mechanism > My 3x3 cube is bought in a shop here in Spain "off the shelf", and I > have been advised against taking it apart. I know how the center section > functions, but what baffles me is the following: > > Let 3 adjacent sides be called A, B and C, and their common corner cube > X.If you pivot A, X follows it, securely fixed to it. When is A back in > place,pivot B. X now pivots together with B, equally fixed to B. The > same goes for C if you pivot that. How can X be equally well fixed to > the three adjacent sides and yet move independently of two of them at a > time? There must be some kind of very stable yet easily "giving away" > coupling device that works in either of the three directions. That is > what I want to find out. > Regards, > Per > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

I remember taht in a video I saw of the 1982 WC, the cubes were in a case. Maybe they were cubers personnal cubes, but I don't think so. But then, it's well known that 2 brand new cubes are not the same... 2005/9/20, Gilles Roux <grrroux@...>: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hayes" > <swedishlf@h...> wrote: > > I solve "whichever face looks most promising," and as such, I don't > > care how the scrambler holds my cube. I must admit, I do not really > > understand why choosing a color to hold on top during a scramble has > > any real effect on the solution. Since so many people do care, I > > would bet it does have an effect, I just fail to see it. Anyone > care > > to explain? > > The original problem is, how to give the same chances to every > competitor? > 1) They should be given the same cubes, i.e. the same scramble > applied to the same color scheme. > 2) Competitors should not be able to see others' solves on the scene > or on a live display. > (maybe that's what they did in 1982?) > > Let's focus on 1). Since you can't force everybody to use the same > color scheme, a choice has to be made about the reference colors to > use (cube orientation), with minimum bias and organizational > constraints. > > Gilles. > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

I have already seen that problem. I don't remember the exact question, but it was a question that whether he lied or not, he would give the same answer...or something like that. Anyway, I hope someone else than me will help you :P Good luck :-) 2005/9/20, neeraj kumar <georgian_neeraj@...>: > > hello sir and all my friends of this wonderful group, > > I am new member of this group.Friends i am not able to solve following puzzle.If any one of you can help me in finding soloution then i will be very help full.please reply soon. > > > > > > BOYwas going a long term behind the bars for 'flirting with my daughter' as said the King. When the King learnt from his advisers that marriages are made in heaven' he was not too sure; so he decided to try it out. > > "There's a door on your left and a door on your right," said the King to BOY, "one of these leads to the princess and the other to a ferocious tiger. You are permitted just one question, which will be answered by the Court Jester in 'Yes', or 'No'. However, he may choose to answer truthfully or tell a lie. Thereafter you take the door you like and either you have my daughter or the tiger has you > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

The cubes were brand new. Lars petrus said they turned horribly. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > I remember taht in a video I saw of the 1982 WC, the cubes were in a case. > Maybe they were cubers personnal cubes, but I don't think so. > But then, it's well known that 2 brand new cubes are not the same... > > 2005/9/20, Gilles Roux <grrroux@f...>: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hayes" > > <swedishlf@h...> wrote: > > > I solve "whichever face looks most promising," and as such, I don't > > > care how the scrambler holds my cube. I must admit, I do not really > > > understand why choosing a color to hold on top during a scramble has > > > any real effect on the solution. Since so many people do care, I > > > would bet it does have an effect, I just fail to see it. Anyone > > care > > > to explain? > > > > The original problem is, how to give the same chances to every > > competitor? > > 1) They should be given the same cubes, i.e. the same scramble > > applied to the same color scheme. > > 2) Competitors should not be able to see others' solves on the scene > > or on a live display. > > (maybe that's what they did in 1982?) > > > > Let's focus on 1). Since you can't force everybody to use the same > > color scheme, a choice has to be made about the reference colors to > > use (cube orientation), with minimum bias and organizational > > constraints. > > > > Gilles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Do yoy lie, if you say that the tiger is to the left? ----- Original Message ----- From: "neeraj kumar" <georgian_neeraj@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 3:20 PM Subject: [Speed cubing group] new member hello sir and all my friends of this wonderful group, I am new member of this group.Friends i am not able to solve following puzzle.If any one of you can help me in finding soloution then i will be very help full.please reply soon. BOYwas going a long term behind the bars for 'flirting with my daughter' as said the King. When the King learnt from his advisers that marriages are made in heaven' he was not too sure; so he decided to try it out. "There's a door on your left and a door on your right," said the King to BOY, "one of these leads to the princess and the other to a ferocious tiger. You are permitted just one question, which will be answered by the Court Jester in 'Yes', or 'No'. However, he may choose to answer truthfully or tell a lie. Thereafter you take the door you like and either you have my daughter or the tiger has you --------------------------------- Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Baum" <speedrunningcuber@y...> wrote: > Congrats Bob! I'm still waiting for a sub 30 solve myself. I've come > close on a lot of solves though (best is 31.68). What are you > averaging now? Best Avg of 10 is 41.57 seconds (29.85) 50.16 31.61 (54.37) 40.35 38.72 33.14 48.52 40.09 42.73 46.65 43.69 I took an average of 30 yesterday (no dropped times). The avg of all 30 was 44.03 with one time in the 50+ range. Nearly all my solves are sub-45 now with the occasional mess-up of an alg resulting in 50+ second times (or the 1/50 solve rate that I actually drop the cube still!) :( I did get a 32.xx yesterday that included me dropping the cube on the floor and it rolled under my bed, but that was a PLL skip. :) ~ Bob

Yeah, you should probably take off 3 seconds or so to compare with times we would have gotten using our own cubes. Then again, the WC cubes were a lot better than the Swedish championship ones, where I won with 40 SECONDS!!! /Lars On Sep 20, 2005, at 7:52, goodxy2002 wrote: > The cubes were brand new. Lars petrus said they turned horribly. > - - - - - - - - - - - - "The mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work unless it's open." --- Frank Zappa Lars Petrus - lars@... http://lar5.com

i just got my studio cube from Dodd Severn today. I'm having trouble making it good though. It seems like no matter what I try, pieces will pop but it won't turn smoothly. Does anyone have any advice for how loose i should tune the screws? Thanks, Jim

Hi friends, Yesterday Ton and I arrived back home from Poland. Polish Open 2005 was the best tournament I ever attended, that was organized completely by volunteers. We had a fantastic weekend, of which I will post a report soon. But I definitely need a shrink! Man, I am not nervous, am fully in control and still set so baaaad times. I tried everything: going slowly, going very fast, fully concentrating, relaxed solving. But when it counts, I just do not do my normal thing. I cannot find the pieces, I lock up during algorithms, mess up the cross, mess up F2L pairs, use wrong algorithms. The only excuse I have is that I am always very busy organizing. Anyway, I am not going to give up organizing, so I have to find another way to improve my competition times. Help! Thanks and have fun, Ron

There is a guide by Ton on this. You'll find it thru speedcubing.com Sachin. On 9/20/05, jim_cuber <jim_cuber@...> wrote: > i just got my studio cube from Dodd Severn today. I'm having trouble > making it good though. It seems like no matter what I try, pieces will > pop but it won't turn smoothly. Does anyone have any advice for how > loose i should tune the screws? > > Thanks, Jim > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Hey! I can't claim to be expert on 3x3x3 cubes but still my simple advice is to go for the black DIY-kit when u want a real good 3x3x3 speedcube. The studio 4x4x4's are excellent cubes however. It's debatable what is the best 4x4x4, Studio or Rubiks.com. My vote is for the Studio one. It seems to me the molding/assembly is more accurate somehow. I would also advice everyone to have same colors stickers on all their cubes. Then i really mean SAME nuance of EACH of the 6 colors. Easiest way to make sure of this is to get replacement stickers for all sizes from same source. (I'd really recommend cubesmith stickers as the quality is excellent!) It makes life a whole lot easier with recognition. And besides the feel on touching the cubes will be similar ... Have fun :-) -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@g...> wrote: > There is a guide by Ton on this. You'll find it thru speedcubing.com > > Sachin. > > On 9/20/05, jim_cuber <jim_cuber@y...> wrote: > > i just got my studio cube from Dodd Severn today. I'm having trouble > > making it good though. It seems like no matter what I try, pieces will > > pop but it won't turn smoothly. Does anyone have any advice for how > > loose i should tune the screws? > > > > Thanks, Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Hey, I would really like to see the skematics for that, but apparently the .jpg link is dead. So could you please re-host it?

Hi, here is the right link: www.geocities.com/cubomagicobrasil/cronometro.JPG Pedro rubikorkow <calcdude@...> escreveu: Hey, I would really like to see the skematics for that, but apparently the .jpg link is dead. So could you please re-host it? --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Novo Yahoo! Messenger com voz: ligações, Yahoo! Avatars, novos emoticons e muito mais. Instale agora! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Ron, Did you ever perform normally in a competitive environment? If so, when did you first fail to perfom normally, or start to? What was the difference between that time and before that? Sometimes an inconsequential something or other becomes a "thing" and thereby becomes substantial, so to speak. There's no fixed definition for it, only that something changed, and *that* is interfering with your concentration: like "in the back of your mind" you know you can screw up. Identify the "thing" and recognize it for what it is. The mind is very adaptable, kind of like an enthusiastic puppy. Oh! this is how I can do that very well; Oh! this is how I can do that very poorly. You are just learning that you can do "awful", as well as you can do "perfect". Regards, David J --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <ron@s...> wrote: > Hi friends, > > Yesterday Ton and I arrived back home from Poland. > Polish Open 2005 was the best tournament I ever attended, that was > organized completely by volunteers. > We had a fantastic weekend, of which I will post a report soon. > > But I definitely need a shrink! Man, I am not nervous, am fully in > control and still set so baaaad times. I tried everything: going > slowly, going very fast, fully concentrating, relaxed solving. But > when it counts, I just do not do my normal thing. I cannot find the > pieces, I lock up during algorithms, mess up the cross, mess up F2L > pairs, use wrong algorithms. > > The only excuse I have is that I am always very busy organizing. > > Anyway, I am not going to give up organizing, so I have to find > another way to improve my competition times. Help! > > Thanks and have fun, > > Ron

is it a big pain in the butt to learn all the f2l algs? Because me not learning f2l algs is the main thing that is slowing me down. So I need some encouragement and lots of tips. I am currently looking at (www.cubewhiz.com) for the f2l algs. If you guys can give me any other advice, that would be great.

That's interesting. The main thing that's slowing me down is *executing* (not learning) the F2L as well as the cross. I have a lot of tutorials to work through at Dan's Cubestation page. I didn't think it was hard to learn the algs at all. What I did was go through a few dozen solves, using the sheets from the original Fridrich page and applying the correct algorithm to each case. I can't stress this enough: Don't just memorize! Pay attention to what the cube is doing when you are walking through each algorithm!! All but a few of the algorithms have a very straightforward logic to them and you would do well to understand it. Most of the time you are just trying to get the corner and edge pieces to line up in a certain way. Knowing how this works will really help you learn the F2L's. Good luck. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "austinbos" <austinbos@y...> wrote: > is it a big pain in the butt to learn all the f2l algs? Because me not > learning f2l algs is the main thing that is slowing me down. So I need > some encouragement and lots of tips. I am currently looking at > (www.cubewhiz.com) for the f2l algs. If you guys can give me any other > advice, that would be great.

I did 14 solves, and this was #3-14...The average of 1-12 was 49.xx, but this one looks better :) Average: 48.91 Fastest Time: 39.27 Slowest Time: 55.97 Standard Deviation: 04.49 Individual Times: 1) 46.49 2) 53.48 3) 52.24 4) 45.76 5) 46.98 6) 55.67 7) (55.97) 8) (39.27)(PB) 9) 53.99 10) 45.56 11) 42.44 12) 46.52

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "per4casso" <LASSEN@t...> wrote: > My 3x3 cube is bought in a shop here in Spain "off the shelf", and I > have been advised against taking it apart. I know how the center section > functions, but what baffles me is the following: > > Let 3 adjacent sides be called A, B and C, and their common corner cube > X.If you pivot A, X follows it, securely fixed to it. When is A back in > place,pivot B. X now pivots together with B, equally fixed to B. The > same goes for C if you pivot that. How can X be equally well fixed to > the three adjacent sides and yet move independently of two of them at a > time? There must be some kind of very stable yet easily "giving away" > coupling device that works in either of the three directions. That is > what I want to find out. > Regards, > Per

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "per4casso" <LASSEN@t...> wrote: > My 3x3 cube is bought in a shop here in Spain "off the shelf", and I > have been advised against taking it apart. I know how the center section > functions, but what baffles me is the following: > > Let 3 adjacent sides be called A, B and C, and their common corner cube > X.If you pivot A, X follows it, securely fixed to it. When is A back in > place,pivot B. X now pivots together with B, equally fixed to B. The > same goes for C if you pivot that. How can X be equally well fixed to > the three adjacent sides and yet move independently of two of them at a > time? There must be some kind of very stable yet easily "giving away" > coupling device that works in either of the three directions. That is > what I want to find out. > Regards, > Per Hi Per, I put photo from Rubik's dot com of their White Do It Yourself Cube in files: http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/vwp?.dir=/&.src=gr&.dnm=White+DIY+Cube.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26.src=gr%26.view=t Look at the edge piece in the photo, see how it has a part which sticks out, (where you can't see it when the cube is together)? That part that sticks out fits neatly under the center, and also inside the circle formed by the second layer. That circle holds the edges horizontally, while the center holds them in vertically. The corner piece has a little foot which tucks under the edge pieces. Hope that helps! David J

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "d_j_salvia" <d_j_salvia@y...> wrote: > > http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/vwp?. dir=/&.src=gr&.dnm=White+DIY+Cube.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos. groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26. src=gr%26.view=t Hey David, how the hell did you post that link without breaking it? Cheers! Stefan

do the F2L intuitively...... good luck! --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "austinbos" <austinbos@y...> wrote: > is it a big pain in the butt to learn all the f2l algs? Because me not > learning f2l algs is the main thing that is slowing me down. So I need > some encouragement and lots of tips. I am currently looking at > (www.cubewhiz.com) for the f2l algs. If you guys can give me any other > advice, that would be great.

Why on earth didn't you keep going? I've found that I generally break my average records about twice in any given average breaking session. Once by a little, and then a little more about 6 solves later. I'm so juiced up from the excitement and adrenaline that I do it again. -Mike --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" <logitewty@h...> wrote: > I did 14 solves, and this was #3-14...The average of 1-12 was 49.xx, > but this one looks better :) > > Average: 48.91 > > Fastest Time: 39.27 > Slowest Time: 55.97 > Standard Deviation: 04.49 > > Individual Times: > 1) 46.49 > 2) 53.48 > 3) 52.24 > 4) 45.76 > 5) 46.98 > 6) 55.67 > 7) (55.97) > 8) (39.27)(PB) > 9) 53.99 > 10) 45.56 > 11) 42.44 > 12) 46.52

I set a new best average today. 15.92 16.81 (20.44) 17.78 18.66 16.88 17.20 18.22 20.09 17.80 18.95 (15.89) ==> 17.83 average! This wasn't a RA either. A few months ago I thought I would never get a sub 20 average... now sub 20 averages are common, and I've gone as low as sub 18. Sub 17 seems inconceivable for me right now, but who knows what practice will bring!

I had one question to ask. I know half of the F2l algs. The algs where the corner is inserted correctly but oriented wrongly i havent learnt them. For these cases i just bring the corner in the U layer and solve. But does solving f2l intutively lead to a decrease in times? coz i avg abt 20-25 seconds in the f2l and i think the main problem is coz once i see a corner edge pair, i think in terms of individual steps, not an algo as an whole. so i have to think at every step, but in an algo, u just have to execute it. Does anyone here solve f2l intutively and is still sub-20? That will be a big boost to my confidence. Sachin. On 9/21/05, skeneegee <skeneegee@hotmail.com> wrote: > do the F2L intuitively...... > > good luck! > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "austinbos" > <austinbos@y...> wrote: > > is it a big pain in the butt to learn all the f2l algs? Because me not > > learning f2l algs is the main thing that is slowing me down. So I need > > some encouragement and lots of tips. I am currently looking at > > (www.cubewhiz.com) for the f2l algs. If you guys can give me any other > > advice, that would be great. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > I just tested it out with my brother. If the judge has one hand on one > pad and the 'one-armed' one-handed competitor hits the other pad, the > timer will stop and start. Hmm, interesting... I finally tried this today with my dad and you're right, it works. Grmbl, now I'm without an explanation for how this thing works ;-). It's not pressure, that I'm sure of. Cheers! Stefan

Yesterday i had a good session going. I was below my PB avg by about 2 seconds. Then i saw the current avg at the 9th solve and i became a lil nervous that i am going to get a new PB avg. So the 10th solve was abt 2 seconds slower. The 11th was 3 seconds slower and on the last solve i really screwed up and finally, the avg went way up. I was so close to my new PB :( Maybe during the solve i shouldnt look at the avgs. Sachin. On 9/21/05, Mike Bennett <mikebennett_one@...> wrote: > Why on earth didn't you keep going? I've found that I generally break > my average records about twice in any given average breaking session. > Once by a little, and then a little more about 6 solves later. I'm > so juiced up from the excitement and adrenaline that I do it again. > > -Mike > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > I did 14 solves, and this was #3-14...The average of 1-12 was 49.xx, > > but this one looks better :) > > > > Average: 48.91 > > > > Fastest Time: 39.27 > > Slowest Time: 55.97 > > Standard Deviation: 04.49 > > > > Individual Times: > > 1) 46.49 > > 2) 53.48 > > 3) 52.24 > > 4) 45.76 > > 5) 46.98 > > 6) 55.67 > > 7) (55.97) > > 8) (39.27)(PB) > > 9) 53.99 > > 10) 45.56 > > 11) 42.44 > > 12) 46.52 > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@g...> wrote: > > Does anyone here solve f2l intutively and is still sub-20? That will > be a big boost to my confidence. I'm close to sub20 (record average 18.90 but real average a bit above 20) and I do it "intuitively", too. Well, of course by now my hands can do the algs by themselves but I know what you mean, my eyes still follow the current pair instead of the next, quite a bad habit which I have to get rid of. I'm currently switching from cross at bottom to cross at left and I believe a side effect of this is that I have to "learn" the algs from a different angle now and I have a slight feeling I'm doing it more mechanically now, letting my hands do the job and not look after the current pair that much. But I still have to work a lot on myself... Good luck quitting the habit! Cheers! Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@g...> wrote: > > Maybe during the solve i shouldnt look at the avgs. Yeah, timers that show the current average should have an option to turn this off :-) Stefan

I'm not sub-20 yet, but my best averages are just over 21. I've never learned an alg for the F2L (one that's i've remembered and still use, at least). Even doing things this way, I still get fairly frequent sub-20 times. The trick is learning to look ahead. Not only do you need to pace yourself and train yourself to look over the cube quickly, but you also need to learn to single out and pair up pieces quickly. I've found it to be very helpful to follow the LL edges, because they help you single out the remaining middle layer edges without allowing your attention to fixate on a single piece as easily. You really don't even need to see them; usually peripherally noticing the piece you need is oriented correctly (by opposite color up if paired+inserted simultaneously, or same color if paired up, then inserted)is plenty. Chris Hardwick made several good posts about this a while back. I believe the F2L should be learned intuitively first, because it gives you a greater understanding of the cube which allows for more optimization, and you'll never get amnesia.Afterward, I think learning optimized for speed algs is a better approach. You should shop around for algs on various pages, but I especially recommend Nate Christie's page. -Mike --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@g...> wrote: > I had one question to ask. I know half of the F2l algs. The algs where > the corner is inserted correctly but oriented wrongly i havent learnt > them. For these cases i just bring the corner in the U layer and > solve. But does solving f2l intutively lead to a decrease in times? > coz i avg abt 20-25 seconds in the f2l and i think the main problem is > coz once i see a corner edge pair, i think in terms of individual > steps, not an algo as an whole. so i have to think at every step, but > in an algo, u just have to execute it. > > Does anyone here solve f2l intutively and is still sub-20? That will > be a big boost to my confidence. > > Sachin. > > On 9/21/05, skeneegee <skeneegee@h...> wrote: > > do the F2L intuitively...... > > > > good luck! > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "austinbos" > > <austinbos@y...> wrote: > > > is it a big pain in the butt to learn all the f2l algs? Because me not > > > learning f2l algs is the main thing that is slowing me down. So I need > > > some encouragement and lots of tips. I am currently looking at > > > (www.cubewhiz.com) for the f2l algs. If you guys can give me any other > > > advice, that would be great. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Half of the time, looking toward the end if I'm doing well is great motivation and makes the last solve or two better than it would have been. Adrenaline can be helpful. Sometimes, though, I get all nervous like that. It all seems 'luck of the draw' to me. Or maybe 'luck of the scramble.' ;) -Mike --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar > <sachinss@g...> wrote: > > > > Maybe during the solve i shouldnt look at the avgs. > > Yeah, timers that show the current average should have an option to > turn this off :-) > > Stefan

When I got my first sub-20 average, I was home before school started and I was doing well so I made my brother scramble and input in the last few times so I couldn't look at the average. I don't really get as nervous anymore I guess because I haven't really done anything 'spectacular'. In blindfold solving, you can't really do stuff like that anyway because you know when you've failed. I remember the first one I did, I had gotten 11 solves and already had a fail so I had to get the 12th. That... was scary. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 20, 2005, at 9:10 PM, Mike Bennett wrote: > Half of the time, looking toward the end if I'm doing well is great > motivation and makes the last solve or two better than it would have > been. Adrenaline can be helpful. > > Sometimes, though, I get all nervous like that. It all seems 'luck of > the draw' to me. Or maybe 'luck of the scramble.' ;) > > -Mike > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > <pochmann@g...> wrote: >> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sachin Shirwalkar >> <sachinss@g...> wrote: >>> >>> Maybe during the solve i shouldnt look at the avgs. >> >> Yeah, timers that show the current average should have an option to >> turn this off :-) >> >> Stefan > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

--- cmhardw wrote: > I was wondering how can I go about doing the same type of analysis > for solving the first two opposite centers of a 4x4x4? > I'd like to know the maximum number of moves it takes to solve two > opposite centers (I don't care about any other pieces), and also > maybe an average # too. I have run it through my own solver, and here are the results. First of all, solving 2 particular opposite colours on the 4x4x4 cube, and placing them on any 2 opposite faces. depth 0, positions 6, total 6 depth 1, positions 36, total 42 depth 2, positions 624, total 666 depth 3, positions 10290, total 10956 depth 4, positions 136338, total 147294 depth 5, positions 1362756, total 1510050 depth 6, positions 9517212, total 11027262 depth 7, positions 28400748, total 39428010 depth 8, positions 12030624, total 51458634 depth 9, positions 24336, total 51482970 Note that there are 6 solutions to this problem since there are 6 faces where the first colour is allowed to end up (the second colour must then end up on the opposite face). The above assumes that you have two particular colours you want to solve first. You may be able to shave a few moves off on average if you can choose a different pair of colours when one pair is too difficult. BTW, I am using single slice q+h metric. Suppose that 2 opposite centres are solved. Without disturbing these you can solve the other 4 centres. The results are: depth 0, positions 4, total 4 depth 1, positions 12, total 16 depth 2, positions 144, total 160 depth 3, positions 1044, total 1204 depth 4, positions 6476, total 7680 depth 5, positions 44320, total 52000 depth 6, positions 253624, total 305624 depth 7, positions 1372656, total 1678280 depth 8, positions 6066480, total 7744760 depth 9, positions 18121248, total 25866008 depth 10, positions 26745272, total 52611280 depth 11, positions 10149368, total 62760648 depth 12, positions 302288, total 63062936 depth 13, positions 64, total 63063000 Note that this time there are 4 solutions, depending on which colour you have on the front. It may in some cases be possible to shorten a solution by temporarily disturbing the two already solved centres. Put together, the above shows that the centres of a 4x4x4 can always be solved in at most 22 moves. Jaap

--- Stefan Pochmann wrote: > --- Tyson Mao wrote: > > I just tested it out with my brother. If the judge has one hand on > > one > > pad and the 'one-armed' one-handed competitor hits the other pad, > > the > > timer will stop and start. > > Hmm, interesting... I finally tried this today with my dad and you're > right, it works. Grmbl, now I'm without an explanation for how this > thing works ;-). It's not pressure, that I'm sure of. Maybe each pad has two contacts, like a button inside a calculator. Even so, it is the hand that bridges the contacts rather than the top membrane of the mat. When you have a piece of paper covering either of the pads it won't work. I'll have to try and find a metal object with a flat base to put on one pad to see if it then works one-handed. Jaap

I solve F2L intuitively. It'll get better-- just practice. Leyan Sachin Shirwalkar wrote: > I had one question to ask. I know half of the F2l algs. The algs where > the corner is inserted correctly but oriented wrongly i havent learnt > them. For these cases i just bring the corner in the U layer and > solve. But does solving f2l intutively lead to a decrease in times? > coz i avg abt 20-25 seconds in the f2l and i think the main problem is > coz once i see a corner edge pair, i think in terms of individual > steps, not an algo as an whole. so i have to think at every step, but > in an algo, u just have to execute it. > > Does anyone here solve f2l intutively and is still sub-20? That will > be a big boost to my confidence. > > Sachin. > > On 9/21/05, skeneegee <skeneegee@...> wrote: > >>do the F2L intuitively...... >> >>good luck! >> >>--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "austinbos" >><austinbos@y...> wrote: >> >>>is it a big pain in the butt to learn all the f2l algs? Because me not >>>learning f2l algs is the main thing that is slowing me down. So I need >>>some encouragement and lots of tips. I am currently looking at >>>(www.cubewhiz.com) for the f2l algs. If you guys can give me any other >>>advice, that would be great. >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, _jaap <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Maybe each pad has two contacts, like a button inside a calculator. > Even so, it is the hand that bridges the contacts rather than the top > membrane of the mat. When you have a piece of paper covering either of > the pads it won't work. Is pressure on the pads needed, or do the "switches" use a capacitance effect, like the buttons you sometimes see in lifts? I don't have a stackmat to play with. Mike

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Leyan Lo <leyanlo@g...> wrote: > It'll get better-- just practice. lol - that's what I used to think. ;) Perhaps I'm doing the wrong kind of practice, but my F2L has been stuck at ~25s for many months. Mike

I did keep going, but the 15th solve was like...high 50s, so I was like...no go... Craig --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > Why on earth didn't you keep going? I've found that I generally break > my average records about twice in any given average breaking session. > Once by a little, and then a little more about 6 solves later. I'm > so juiced up from the excitement and adrenaline that I do it again. > > -Mike > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > I did 14 solves, and this was #3-14...The average of 1-12 was 49.xx, > > but this one looks better :) > > > > Average: 48.91 > > > > Fastest Time: 39.27 > > Slowest Time: 55.97 > > Standard Deviation: 04.49 > > > > Individual Times: > > 1) 46.49 > > 2) 53.48 > > 3) 52.24 > > 4) 45.76 > > 5) 46.98 > > 6) 55.67 > > 7) (55.97) > > 8) (39.27)(PB) > > 9) 53.99 > > 10) 45.56 > > 11) 42.44 > > 12) 46.52

This is directed in general to everyone, but this post made me think of it. I wonder if the line between using algs and solving intuitively for F2L is somewhat blurry? I learned all the F2L algs first before I understood what they did. At first I would just apply the required algorithm to the required situation. Then over time I learned what each alg did, and now can fully explain how my F2L algs pair up/place/preserve the rest of F2L etc.. I would definitely consider my F2L solving intuitive though, as I don't think "hey that's the case where the corner and edge are separated in the LL and the first layer color of the corner is perpendicular to the edge" I just think, "hey the pieces look like this and I could pair them if I did the moves XXXXXX". I would consider that intutive, but then again I didn't learn the F2L in an intuitive way. However, even when solving with Fridrich I will sometimes use a ZBF2L alg on a corner/edge pair because I know that my regular alg will leave me with all incorrectly flipped edges (or for the 3rd pair lots of incorrectly flipped edges). Also sometimes I use a ZBF2L alg because the cube is already set up for that case and I would have to do a setup move (waste a move basically) to set up into my intuitive F2L alg. I'd rather quickly solve that case than use a slower move and understand how I solved it. To be honest a lot of the ZBF2L algs are still "algs" for me, or at least not 100% intuitive. So I guess I would say that I use a mix of intuitive stuff and algs, but then again I never learned the F2L intuitively, so technically I don't solve intuitively at all? Sorry if this sounds like babbling, I'm up late doing homework and found this thread waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more interesting than my homework :-D Anyway I think maybe the line between intuitive and solving with algs is more blurry than just you are either in camp A or camp B but not both. Just my $0.02 Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Leyan Lo <leyanlo@g...> wrote: > I solve F2L intuitively. It'll get better-- just practice. > > Leyan

Yay...I am sitting here in accounting class, and i just finished my test. Before class I got a 34.12 unlucky solve and i stood up and was like (insert bad word) I was so happy. Craig --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" <logitewty@h...> wrote: > I did keep going, but the 15th solve was like...high 50s, so I was > like...no go... > > Craig > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > Why on earth didn't you keep going? I've found that I generally break > > my average records about twice in any given average breaking session. > > Once by a little, and then a little more about 6 solves later. I'm > > so juiced up from the excitement and adrenaline that I do it again. > > > > -Mike > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > > I did 14 solves, and this was #3-14...The average of 1-12 was 49.xx, > > > but this one looks better :) > > > > > > Average: 48.91 > > > > > > Fastest Time: 39.27 > > > Slowest Time: 55.97 > > > Standard Deviation: 04.49 > > > > > > Individual Times: > > > 1) 46.49 > > > 2) 53.48 > > > 3) 52.24 > > > 4) 45.76 > > > 5) 46.98 > > > 6) 55.67 > > > 7) (55.97) > > > 8) (39.27)(PB) > > > 9) 53.99 > > > 10) 45.56 > > > 11) 42.44 > > > 12) 46.52

Maybe there is something in your body the pad senses when you push on them??? Craig --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, mike_go_uk <no_reply@y...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, _jaap <no_reply@y...> > wrote: > > Maybe each pad has two contacts, like a button inside a calculator. > > Even so, it is the hand that bridges the contacts rather than the top > > membrane of the mat. When you have a piece of paper covering either > of > > the pads it won't work. > > Is pressure on the pads needed, or do the "switches" use a capacitance > effect, like the buttons you sometimes see in lifts? I don't have a > stackmat to play with. > > Mike

haha, Craig, you are making good progress keep going :-) 2005/9/21, Craig Bouchard <logitewty@...>: > Yay...I am sitting here in accounting class, and i just finished my > test. Before class I got a 34.12 unlucky solve and i stood up and > was like (insert bad word) I was so happy. > > Craig > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > I did keep going, but the 15th solve was like...high 50s, so I was > > like...no go... > > > > Craig > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > > Why on earth didn't you keep going? I've found that I generally > break > > > my average records about twice in any given average breaking > session. > > > Once by a little, and then a little more about 6 solves later. > I'm > > > so juiced up from the excitement and adrenaline that I do it > again. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > > > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > > > I did 14 solves, and this was #3-14...The average of 1-12 was > 49.xx, > > > > but this one looks better :) > > > > > > > > Average: 48.91 > > > > > > > > Fastest Time: 39.27 > > > > Slowest Time: 55.97 > > > > Standard Deviation: 04.49 > > > > > > > > Individual Times: > > > > 1) 46.49 > > > > 2) 53.48 > > > > 3) 52.24 > > > > 4) 45.76 > > > > 5) 46.98 > > > > 6) 55.67 > > > > 7) (55.97) > > > > 8) (39.27)(PB) > > > > 9) 53.99 > > > > 10) 45.56 > > > > 11) 42.44 > > > > 12) 46.52 > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, _jaap <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > When you have a piece of paper covering either of > the pads it won't work. Mine works perfectly with a sheet of paper on the pads. Even with three sheets. > I'll have to try and find a metal object with a flat base to put on one > pad to see if it then works one-handed. Yeah I've tried that, too. Finding such a metal object I mean ;-). Wasn't successful... Stefan

More information on: http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=211#211 Have fun, Ron

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "d_j_salvia" > <d_j_salvia@y...> wrote: > > > > http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/vwp?.dir=/&.src=gr&.dnm=White+DIY+Cube.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26.src=gr%26.view=t > > Hey David, > > how the hell did you post that link without breaking it? > > Cheers! > Stefan Hey Stefan, When I was at the photo page I selected the URL and copied it, then when writing the post I simply pasted it. The URL never sat in a word processing program. What do you do differently? Cheers, David J

I recommend Peter Jansen's algs on speedcubing.com. They are very nice, almost all are 2-generator. Pedro austinbos <austinbos@...> escreveu: is it a big pain in the butt to learn all the f2l algs? Because me not learning f2l algs is the main thing that is slowing me down. So I need some encouragement and lots of tips. I am currently looking at (www.cubewhiz.com) for the f2l algs. If you guys can give me any other advice, that would be great. SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Novo Yahoo! Messenger com voz: ligações, Yahoo! Avatars, novos emoticons e muito mais. Instale agora! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "d_j_salvia" <d_j_salvia@y...> wrote: > When I was at the photo page I selected the URL and copied it, then > when writing the post I simply pasted it. The URL never sat in a word > processing program. What do you do differently? Ok, let me try the same: http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/vwp?. dir=/&.src=gr&.dnm=White+DIY+Cube.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos. groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26. src=gr%26.view=t Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "d_j_salvia" > <d_j_salvia@y...> wrote: > > When I was at the photo page I selected the URL and copied it, then > > when writing the post I simply pasted it. The URL never sat in a > word > > processing program. What do you do differently? > > Ok, let me try the same: > > http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/vwp?. > dir=/&.src=gr&.dnm=White+DIY+Cube.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos. > groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26. > src=gr%26.view=t > > Stefan Alright, didn't work, now with the "Wrap message text" turned off: http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/vwp?. dir=/&.src=gr&.dnm=White+DIY+Cube.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos. groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26. src=gr%26.view=t Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "d_j_salvia" > > <d_j_salvia@y...> wrote: > > > When I was at the photo page I selected the URL and copied it, > then > > > when writing the post I simply pasted it. The URL never sat in a > > word > > > processing program. What do you do differently? > > > > Ok, let me try the same: > > > > http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/vwp?. > > dir=/&.src=gr&.dnm=White+DIY+Cube.jpg&.view=t&.done=http% 3a//photos. > > groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26. > > src=gr%26.view=t > > > > Stefan > > Alright, didn't work, now with the "Wrap message text" turned off: > > http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/vwp?. > dir=/&.src=gr&.dnm=White+DIY+Cube.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos. > groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26. > src=gr%26.view=t > > Stefan Ok ok... David, what program do you use for posting here? Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > > <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "d_j_salvia" > > > <d_j_salvia@y...> wrote: > > > > When I was at the photo page I selected the URL and copied it, > > then > > > > when writing the post I simply pasted it. The URL never sat in a > > > word > > > > processing program. What do you do differently? > > > > > > Ok, let me try the same: > > > > > > http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/vwp?. > > > dir=/&.src=gr&.dnm=White+DIY+Cube.jpg&.view=t&.done=http% > 3a//photos. > > > groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26. > > > src=gr%26.view=t > > > > > > Stefan > > > > Alright, didn't work, now with the "Wrap message text" turned off: > > > > http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/vwp?. > > dir=/&.src=gr&.dnm=White+DIY+Cube.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos. > > groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26. > > src=gr%26.view=t > > > > Stefan > > Ok ok... David, what program do you use for posting here? > > Stefan Hey Stefan, The browser I'm using is the Mozilla which comes with Compuserve. Other than that no program. It probably helps that I have Yahoo email. I copied and pasted what you posted first and it worked just fine. Did the second try work? I see you won that used Deluxe cube yesterday. Cool. Is that your first regular Deluxe (as opposed to the Rubik's Game version)? Cheers, David J

Ron, on the WCA site you said there were only 9 competitors at the Idaho event, but for the record I recall there being 10 competitors: 1 Duane 2 Frank 3 Christy 4 Sara 5 Chris 6 Nick 7 Michael 8 John 9 Owen 10 Kirk Am I missing something here? From my perspective, that looks like 10 competitors, which satisfies the minimum under the regulations, so the event should be recognized without any special exception. Thanks again to those that came and to those who worked so hard to make it a great event! --Kirk --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <ron@s...> wrote: > More information on: > http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=211#211 > > Have fun, > > Ron

Hi Kirk, Yes, I noticed afterwards that there were actually 10 people competing. :-) I also heard that about 10 other registered people did not appear at the venue. Yes, the WCA competitions are always fun. :-) Have fun, Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: kirk83616 To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 9:32 PM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Idaho Open 2005 results will be accepted as official Ron, on the WCA site you said there were only 9 competitors at the Idaho event, but for the record I recall there being 10 competitors: 1 Duane 2 Frank 3 Christy 4 Sara 5 Chris 6 Nick 7 Michael 8 John 9 Owen 10 Kirk Am I missing something here? From my perspective, that looks like 10 competitors, which satisfies the minimum under the regulations, so the event should be recognized without any special exception. Thanks again to those that came and to those who worked so hard to make it a great event! --Kirk --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <ron@s...> wrote: > More information on: > http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=211#211 > > Have fun, > > Ron ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "d_j_salvia" <d_j_salvia@y...> wrote: > > The browser I'm using is the Mozilla which comes with Compuserve. > Other than that no program. It probably helps that I have Yahoo email. > > I copied and pasted what you posted first and it worked just fine. Did > the second try work? Hi David, oh, ok, so you're using emails, not the web interface. No, both attempts broke the link into four lines and turned only the first line into a link, thereby killing it. > I see you won that used Deluxe cube yesterday. Cool. Is that your > first regular Deluxe (as opposed to the Rubik's Game version)? Yeah, I'm happy about that one :-). No, it's not my first Deluxe, I got another one in a trade with a fellow cuber recently. Cheers! Stefan

What are we going to do if there is a hurricane scheduled to hit Florida when WC2005 is??? They are very common there, and my parents have asked me this question multiple times and have said that we won't be going... Craig

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" <logitewty@h...> wrote: > What are we going to do if there is a hurricane scheduled to hit > Florida when WC2005 is??? They are very common there, and my parents > have asked me this question multiple times and have said that we won't > be going... > > Craig I don't pretend to be a meteorologist, but I'm fairly certain November is out of Hurricane season. You should probably attempt to learn more about it, though. I suggest Google. -Mike Bennett

I am going regardless. :P ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" <logitewty@h...> wrote: > What are we going to do if there is a hurricane scheduled to hit > Florida when WC2005 is??? They are very common there, and my parents > have asked me this question multiple times and have said that we won't > be going... > > Craig

if I remember right, hurricane season is officially over on November 1. So it should be safe. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > What are we going to do if there is a hurricane scheduled to hit > > Florida when WC2005 is??? They are very common there, and my parents > > have asked me this question multiple times and have said that we won't > > be going... > > > > Craig > > I don't pretend to be a meteorologist, but I'm fairly certain November > is out of Hurricane season. You should probably attempt to learn more > about it, though. I suggest Google. > > -Mike Bennett

I kind of liked this question. Just for fun.... 1) How many official (Rubik's brand, 3x3x3) cubes do you have? 2) How many puzzles in your entire collection? (Feel free to give highlights!) As for me... 1) After losing all my cubes in one day, I sort of went haywire. I now have nine cubes: 3 Ideal (1 re-stickered white-opp-yellow) 4 25thA (1 re-stickered white-opp-blue) 1 Hasbro c.2002 - barely turns even w/silicone 1 keychain with very 'peely' stickers 2) Nine! :) As you can see I have quite a bit more collecting to do.... --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" <logitewty@h...> wrote: > Stefan, how many cubes you got...I guess this question could go to all > members...How many cubes to you all have???

Hi Stefan, --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > [snip] > Hi David, > > oh, ok, so you're using emails, not the web interface. No. I use the web interface, not emails, but Yahoo automatically links the two. > No, both > attempts broke the link into four lines and turned only the first > line into a link, thereby killing it. Kills it as a link to click on, but not to copy and paste. > > I see you won that used Deluxe cube yesterday. Cool. Is that your > > first regular Deluxe (as opposed to the Rubik's Game version)? > > Yeah, I'm happy about that one :-). No, it's not my first Deluxe, I > got another one in a trade with a fellow cuber recently. Enjoy them. :) > Cheers! > Stefan You, too. David J

Hi Per, Interesting answer. How many moves does your LBL 3x3x3 and 4x4x4 solves take? DJ --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > Hi! > > All the stuff i use for any size cube is all mine. I use a pretty > basic LBL for 3x3x3 and average on average mid to low 20's. For > larger cubes i use sorta LBL also. I call it the cage method: i > build first layer complete, middle layers edges, last layer corners, > last layer edges (and parity)and then finally all the remaining > centers. If i switch to a better f2l or LL for 3x3x3 i will learn > algs from sites or reinvent them somehow ;-) That would be my > first "cube-cheating" ;-) > > Have fun !! > > -Per > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" > <bob@c...> wrote: > > > Is there anyone here who uses their own method and uses only > their own > > > algorithms? Or is everyone here using other's methods and > algorithms? > > > > Not me. > > > > > What percentage of the algorithms you use that you didn't learn > from > > > others, but developed yourself? > > > > maybe 5-10% if you exclude F2L. Those aren't necessarily algs, > unless > > you want to call them so. In that case, change 5-10% to 20-25 :) > > > > ~ Bob

Hi Duncan, I've got the option of eliminating LL in my method, too. Once I have a better handle on solving the last 4 corners I can do more work on the last 5. How far along are you in eliminating LL? DJ --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Duncan Dicks" <duncan@d...> wrote: > Use my own method (L2L) but at the moment with PLL algorithms at least some > of which are other peoples. When I eventually use the full method it won't > have the PLLs in it. > > Duncan > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "d_j_salvia" <d_j_salvia@y...> > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:40 PM > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Your own method and algs > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > Is there anyone here who uses their own method and uses only their own > > algorithms? Or is everyone here using other's methods and algorithms? > > > > What percentage of the algorithms you use that you didn't learn from > > others, but developed yourself? > > > > David J > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Hey Doug, --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, d_funny007 <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Hem the rate of posts seem to have sped back up again. > > If anybody was going to ask this question, I thought it would be you :) > (after reading so many posts, I get a good feel for who tends to post > what types of questions :)). I'm surprised that it took me so long. :) > For those that don't know: > > I have my own system and started developing it about 6.5 years ago. I > use it in combination with other methodology though. Depending on the > inital preinspection I might use GuusR.S. (Fridrich but with CLL/ELL > instead). I'll go for Petrus solves about 3% of the time, and a Gilles > method solve about 5% of the time... approximately, I really should > keep track. I developed a version of Gilles method on my own for solving the 4x4x4. His last step are options in my method, but I don't use them that much. > I incorporated some ZBF2L algs into my solving (as part of advancing > the Petrus method). I know a lot of what I would now like to > call "Akimoto algs" or "Akimoto CLL", it was something I started doing > accidently, but was motivated when he pointed it out. It's when each > CLL case becomes a category of up to 8 cases depending on edge flip... > basically I flip edges while doing CLL. (I've killed off a few > categories of cases.) I do this too, but I haven't solved all the cases yet. And getting what's in my head onto paper so I can relate to it and organise it better seems ridiculously hard. > I was doing pure CLL/ELL in the first couple years I was working on my > system. I don't start with a cross NOR with corners NOR with > a "layer". Starting with 4 corners is an option in my method. The cross comprises my 4th and 5th steps. > I am a bit ashamed that I have yet to publish it. > > The algorithms I found using a rather ancient version of ACube (in > which I took the original C++ code and modifided it a bit). Then after > I wanted shorter c/e pairing algs I used Ron's listing. (But my > CLL,ELL,COLL are all found either by trial and error or ACube, or > composing algs I know.) Thanks for the detail. > I guess I'm holding on to one of the last unpublished *un- > catergorizable* methods... well if you can call the Gilles method and > Petrus method "block methods" then perhaps so is mine. But is is > definately not LBL or CF. Though my steps are *strictly* a > bit "modular". (something I thought was kinda cool was the uniquneness > of this, as far as I know) Interesting. I had no idea how others solved the cube when I put my method together. > And I keep (as in actively use) the entire PLL set, 65% of OLLs, all > the COLLs, ELLs, CLLs, and F2L paring algs a subset of the algs needed > for this system as it currently stands. I'm in the middle of trying to accurately count up how many algs in each category I know. > (It is)/(I am) currently moving it two directions, adding more of the > Lars step 6+7 combinded and ZBF2L. (Though I have decient enough > partial edge control to make use of the limited ZBLL algs I know.) Cool. :) > It still really helps to have a complete ELL set for backup incase ZB > stuff goes wrong though. I'm working on the different aspects of the LL too. > > -Doug > Thanks for your answer. Regards, David J > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "d_j_salvia" > <d_j_salvia@y...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > > > Is there anyone here who uses their own method and uses only their > own > > algorithms? Or is everyone here using other's methods and algorithms? > > > > What percentage of the algorithms you use that you didn't learn from > > others, but developed yourself? > > > > David J

According to my parents November is the height of hurrican season...but they don't know either...huh...I'm just asking what would happen if there is one... Craig P.S. - new PB of 32.25 and PB average of 43.16 --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Atkinson" <m.e.atkinson@g...> wrote: > if I remember right, hurricane season is officially over on November > 1. So it should be safe. > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > > What are we going to do if there is a hurricane scheduled to hit > > > Florida when WC2005 is??? They are very common there, and my parents > > > have asked me this question multiple times and have said that we won't > > > be going... > > > > > > Craig > > > > I don't pretend to be a meteorologist, but I'm fairly certain November > > is out of Hurricane season. You should probably attempt to learn more > > about it, though. I suggest Google. > > > > -Mike Bennett

is the mechanism inside the stackmat possible similar to those of a touch pad (on a laptop)? because from my experiences, you can only use you fingers on the touch pads, nothing else. maybe this is the same.. anyone know? On 9/21/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, _jaap <no_reply@y...> > wrote: > > > > When you have a piece of paper covering either of > > the pads it won't work. > > Mine works perfectly with a sheet of paper on the pads. Even with > three sheets. > > > I'll have to try and find a metal object with a flat base to put on > one > > pad to see if it then works one-handed. > > Yeah I've tried that, too. Finding such a metal object I mean ;-). > Wasn't successful... > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

i do intuitively and avg around 23. which is not sub-20. but i know doug reed does them intuitively as well, and he's like sub 18 or something. it gets better, just takes a while to get there. its so much more worth it in the end. On 9/21/05, Pedro <pedrosino1@...> wrote: > I recommend Peter Jansen's algs on speedcubing.com. They are very nice, almost all are 2-generator. > > Pedro > > austinbos <austinbos@...> escreveu: > is it a big pain in the butt to learn all the f2l algs? Because me not > learning f2l algs is the main thing that is slowing me down. So I need > some encouragement and lots of tips. I am currently looking at > (www.cubewhiz.com) for the f2l algs. If you guys can give me any other > advice, that would be great. > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > --------------------------------- > Novo Yahoo! Messenger com voz: ligações, Yahoo! Avatars, novos emoticons e muito mais. Instale agora! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

I have21 cube related articles in my collection. @3 rubiks cubes store brought. "ideal" i think 1 rubiks revenge 1 rubiks professor 2 Hasbro 25th Anv Cubes 1 Winning moves 25 Anv cube. 1 1980 Rubiks cube 1 rubiks clock 1 Pyraminx 1 megaminx 1 Missing Links puzzle 1 WC2003 Special Edition Puzzle - Signed by Rubik. 1 Chrome plated cube - given out at the WC2003 1 pocket Cube 1 Square1 1 Darth maul pocket cube. 1 DIY white - assembled 2 DIY black - 1 assembled Also have my own Stackmat - Coutesy of Dan Godsbe, from WC2003 ----- Original Message ----- From: kwickykanny To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 7:27 PM Subject: [Speed cubing group] how many? I kind of liked this question. Just for fun.... 1) How many official (Rubik's brand, 3x3x3) cubes do you have? 2) How many puzzles in your entire collection? (Feel free to give highlights!) As for me... 1) After losing all my cubes in one day, I sort of went haywire. I now have nine cubes: 3 Ideal (1 re-stickered white-opp-yellow) 4 25thA (1 re-stickered white-opp-blue) 1 Hasbro c.2002 - barely turns even w/silicone 1 keychain with very 'peely' stickers 2) Nine! :) As you can see I have quite a bit more collecting to do.... --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" <logitewty@h...> wrote: > Stefan, how many cubes you got...I guess this question could go to all > members...How many cubes to you all have??? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We would all get very wet. -CHris On 9/21/05, Craig Bouchard <logitewty@...> wrote: > > According to my parents November is the height of hurrican > season...but they don't know either...huh...I'm just asking what would > happen if there is one... > > Craig > > P.S. - new PB of 32.25 and PB average of 43.16 > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Atkinson" > <m.e.atkinson@g...> wrote: > > if I remember right, hurricane season is officially over on November > > 1. So it should be safe. > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > > > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > > > What are we going to do if there is a hurricane scheduled to hit > > > > Florida when WC2005 is??? They are very common there, and my parents > > > > have asked me this question multiple times and have said that we > won't > > > > be going... > > > > > > > > Craig > > > > > > I don't pretend to be a meteorologist, but I'm fairly certain November > > > is out of Hurricane season. You should probably attempt to learn more > > > about it, though. I suggest Google. > > > > > > -Mike Bennett > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't have too many either...at least, relative to some of the members here. 1) about 12 3x3x3's. most are really crappy though, and only about 8 are actual Rubiks brand cubes.... 2) a bunch of smaller puzzles...probably around 10-20. I actually don't know. I have 1 master magic 1 magic 2 15 square puzzles 2 2x2's 1 4x4 1 5x5 1 Rubiks Rings that's 10, but I'm sure I have more I can't think of right now...yeah. maybe I'll go count and come back with a more accurate figure. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "kwickykanny" <kwickykanny@e...> wrote: > I kind of liked this question. Just for fun.... > > 1) How many official (Rubik's brand, 3x3x3) cubes do you have? > 2) How many puzzles in your entire collection? (Feel free to give > highlights!) > > As for me... > 1) After losing all my cubes in one day, I sort of went haywire. I now > have nine cubes: > 3 Ideal (1 re-stickered white-opp-yellow) > 4 25thA (1 re-stickered white-opp-blue) > 1 Hasbro c.2002 - barely turns even w/silicone > 1 keychain with very 'peely' stickers > > 2) Nine! :) As you can see I have quite a bit more collecting to do.... > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > Stefan, how many cubes you got...I guess this question could go to all > > members...How many cubes to you all have???

You can build your collection online at twistypuzzles.com. Although not every single puzzle ever made is in the database, they have an awful lot of them. here's mine http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/cm-view.cgi?mid=72 I have to haul them all out pretty soon to update the family photo. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "kwickykanny" <kwickykanny@e...> wrote: > I kind of liked this question. Just for fun.... > > 1) How many official (Rubik's brand, 3x3x3) cubes do you have? > 2) How many puzzles in your entire collection? (Feel free to give > highlights!) > > As for me... > 1) After losing all my cubes in one day, I sort of went haywire. I now > have nine cubes: > 3 Ideal (1 re-stickered white-opp-yellow) > 4 25thA (1 re-stickered white-opp-blue) > 1 Hasbro c.2002 - barely turns even w/silicone > 1 keychain with very 'peely' stickers > > 2) Nine! :) As you can see I have quite a bit more collecting to do.... > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > Stefan, how many cubes you got...I guess this question could go to all > > members...How many cubes to you all have???

Hi DJ, I have all the algorithms for the complete method - its just that I havent learned them all yet! Once I'm comfortable and faster with the 35 I use now that eliminate OLL I'll move along and learn the last 20 which will get rid of PLL. The moves and method are all on my (badly written!) website http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/cubertscubicle Don't know your method so I don't know whether any of these algorithms would help. Duncan ----- Original Message ----- From: "d_j_salvia" <d_j_salvia@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Your own method and algs > Hi Duncan, > > I've got the option of eliminating LL in my method, too. Once I have a > better handle on solving the last 4 corners I can do more work on the > last 5. How far along are you in eliminating LL? > > DJ > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Duncan Dicks" > <duncan@d...> wrote: >> Use my own method (L2L) but at the moment with PLL algorithms at > least some >> of which are other peoples. When I eventually use the full method > it won't >> have the PLLs in it. >> >> Duncan >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "d_j_salvia" <d_j_salvia@y...> >> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:40 PM >> Subject: [Speed cubing group] Your own method and algs >> >> >> > Hi Everyone, >> > >> > Is there anyone here who uses their own method and uses only their own >> > algorithms? Or is everyone here using other's methods and algorithms? >> > >> > What percentage of the algorithms you use that you didn't learn from >> > others, but developed yourself? >> > >> > David J >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Sadly, I would find that amusing if I wasn't evacuating tomorrow morning :( On 9/21/05, Chris Hunt <huntca@...> wrote: > We would all get very wet. > > -CHris > > On 9/21/05, Craig Bouchard <logitewty@...> wrote: > > > > According to my parents November is the height of hurrican > > season...but they don't know either...huh...I'm just asking what would > > happen if there is one... > > > > Craig > > > > P.S. - new PB of 32.25 and PB average of 43.16 > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@...m, "Michael Atkinson" > > <m.e.atkinson@g...> wrote: > > > if I remember right, hurricane season is officially over on November > > > 1. So it should be safe. > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > > > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > > > > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > > > > What are we going to do if there is a hurricane scheduled to hit > > > > > Florida when WC2005 is??? They are very common there, and my parents > > > > > have asked me this question multiple times and have said that we > > won't > > > > > be going... > > > > > > > > > > Craig > > > > > > > > I don't pretend to be a meteorologist, but I'm fairly certain November > > > > is out of Hurricane season. You should probably attempt to learn more > > > > about it, though. I suggest Google. > > > > > > > > -Mike Bennett > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

I'm sorry Sapan. I hope all goes well. -Chris On 9/21/05, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@...> wrote: > > Sadly, I would find that amusing if I wasn't evacuating tomorrow morning > :( > > On 9/21/05, Chris Hunt <huntca@...> wrote: > > We would all get very wet. > > > > -CHris > > > > On 9/21/05, Craig Bouchard <logitewty@...> wrote: > > > > > > According to my parents November is the height of hurrican > > > season...but they don't know either...huh...I'm just asking what would > > > happen if there is one... > > > > > > Craig > > > > > > P.S. - new PB of 32.25 and PB average of 43.16 > > > > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Atkinson" > > > <m.e.atkinson@g...> wrote: > > > > if I remember right, hurricane season is officially over on November > > > > 1. So it should be safe. > > > > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > > > > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > > > > > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > > > > > What are we going to do if there is a hurricane scheduled to hit > > > > > > Florida when WC2005 is??? They are very common there, and my > parents > > > > > > have asked me this question multiple times and have said that we > > > won't > > > > > > be going... > > > > > > > > > > > > Craig > > > > > > > > > > I don't pretend to be a meteorologist, but I'm fairly certain > November > > > > > is out of Hurricane season. You should probably attempt to learn > more > > > > > about it, though. I suggest Google. > > > > > > > > > > -Mike Bennett > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -cubekid > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

May be im the only one here with the fewest no. of puzzles. 1) no. of cubes - 3 rubik's studio rubiks.com cube and a very bad local cube, which is a good exercise for the forearms while cubing :) No other puzzle yet, but i want to add the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 to the list. Sachin. On 9/22/05, skeneegee <skeneegee@...> wrote: > You can build your collection online at twistypuzzles.com. Although > not every single puzzle ever made is in the database, they have an > awful lot of them. > > here's mine http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/cm-view.cgi?mid=72 > I have to haul them all out pretty soon to update the family photo. > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "kwickykanny" > <kwickykanny@e...> wrote: > > I kind of liked this question. Just for fun.... > > > > 1) How many official (Rubik's brand, 3x3x3) cubes do you have? > > 2) How many puzzles in your entire collection? (Feel free to give > > highlights!) > > > > As for me... > > 1) After losing all my cubes in one day, I sort of went haywire. I now > > have nine cubes: > > 3 Ideal (1 re-stickered white-opp-yellow) > > 4 25thA (1 re-stickered white-opp-blue) > > 1 Hasbro c.2002 - barely turns even w/silicone > > 1 keychain with very 'peely' stickers > > > > 2) Nine! :) As you can see I have quite a bit more collecting to do.... > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > > Stefan, how many cubes you got...I guess this question could go to all > > > members...How many cubes to you all have??? > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

well, I'll give it a go: 1) I'm guessing 12: 1 in my backpack 1 in my car 1 in girlfriend's car 3 on my desk atm 1 sealed ideal cube 3 retired cubes 2 sealed 25th anniversary (one in hexagonal package, one in blister pack with silver instead of white) If you include sticker variations and different sizes throw in: 1 giant cube 1 wooden tiled cube 5 keychain cubes (1 sealed) 1 necklace cube 1 itty bitty quarter machine cube 1 Rubik's Game cube for a total of 22 3x3's 2) Oh boy... Umm... I count roughly 90 individual puzzles highlights: 4 megaminxes (megaminxi?) 1 tiled mefferts, 2 tomy, 1 hand stickered mefferts. 1 alexander's star 3 home made puzzles (siamese cube, master cuboctehedran, keychain halftruncated cube). 9 sealed puzzles (2x2-4x4, missing link, calendar cube, darth maul head, several 3x3's) 8 assembly puzzles (boring IMHO) E-bay is a dangerous thing. The only things I'm REALLY gunning for are a sealed tomy megaminx and a hungarian supernova (and of course an IQ puzzle, shaped like a megaminx but white plastic, but I've only ever seen 1 picture of one). And of course as soon as www.olympicubes.com comes up with their 6x6x6 for sale, I'll jump on that too. I'm not an addict, Daniel

The videos from the Idaho Open 2005 have been uploaded. Thanks for the great tournament Frank and thank you Nick for learning how to use my camera so that you could take these videos. You may view them in the strangepuzzle.com <http://strangepuzzle.com>database or visit the Idaho Open 2005 page here: http://strangepuzzle.com/idaho.html -Chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That hotel looks really nice! I like how Chris 'gently' puts the cube down in the first round. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 21, 2005, at 9:53 PM, Chris Hunt wrote: > The videos from the Idaho Open 2005 have been uploaded. Thanks for the > great > tournament Frank and thank you Nick for learning how to use my camera > so > that you could take these videos. > > You may view them in the strangepuzzle.com > <http://strangepuzzle.com>database or visit the Idaho Open 2005 page > here: > > http://strangepuzzle.com/idaho.html > > -Chris > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

8 standard 3x3x3 cubes 1 DIY 1 metallic chrome plated cube THIS IS THE SHIT!! :P 2 4x4x4, one is eatsheen 1 5x5x5 mefferts tiled cube 1 pyraminx 1 pyramorphix 1 giant 3x3x3 1 homer simpson head 1 homer simpson magic 1 blk original 1980 magic 1 rubik 2x2x2 2 square-ones That is about it :) imma get a dogic soon. or a skewb soon. --- kwickykanny <kwickykanny@...> wrote: > I kind of liked this question. Just for fun.... > > 1) Howmany official (Rubik's brand, 3x3x3) cubes do > you have? > 2) How many puzzles in your entire collection? > (Feel free to give > highlights!) > > As for me... > 1) After losing all my cubes in one day, I sort of > went haywire. I now > have nine cubes: > 3 Ideal (1 re-stickered white-opp-yellow) > 4 25thA (1 re-stickered white-opp-blue) > 1 Hasbro c.2002 - barely turns even w/silicone > 1 keychain with very 'peely' stickers > > 2) Nine! :) As you can see I have quite a bit more > collecting to do.... > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, > "Craig Bouchard" > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > Stefan, how many cubes you got...I guess this > question could go to all > > members...How many cubes to you all have??? > > > > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com

Was that counted as a +2 sec penalty? On 9/22/05, Tyson Mao <tmao@...tech.edu> wrote: > That hotel looks really nice! I like how Chris 'gently' puts the cube > down in the first round. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 21, 2005, at 9:53 PM, Chris Hunt wrote: > > > The videos from the Idaho Open 2005 have been uploaded. Thanks for the > > great > > tournament Frank and thank you Nick for learning how to use my camera > > so > > that you could take these videos. > > > > You may view them in the strangepuzzle.com > > <http://strangepuzzle.com>database or visit the Idaho Open 2005 page > > here: > > > > http://strangepuzzle.com/idaho.html > > > > -Chris > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

On 9/21/05, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@...> wrote: > > Was that counted as a +2 sec penalty? Nope. I actually had two solves in that tournament that were incredibly close to the penalty, but not. I'm just lucky :) -Chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey chris i want to thank you. After seeing ur fluent solve, i said to myself i can also solve at that speed. so i did a solve going slowly and got a very fast time. So i decided to take a avg with the new method of going slow. here are my times 36.17 44 47.78 37.81 39.21 37.85 38.62 39.76 (50.90) (34.39) 37.64 43.56 Avg 40.23 seconds! my personal best. This time too till the last solve my avg was 39.57 seconds. So all i had to do to get my first sub40 avg was to make a solve faster than 40 secs. but again it got on my nerves and i messed up at the last :( Anyway i now understand why ppl keep telling to go slow. Till now i hadent understood, bt after seeing the vid, i had my enlightenment :) Happy (slow)cubing! Sachin. On 9/22/05, Chris Hunt <huntca@...> wrote: > On 9/21/05, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@...> wrote: > > > > Was that counted as a +2 sec penalty? > > > Nope. I actually had two solves in that tournament that were incredibly > close to the penalty, but not. I'm just lucky :) > > -Chris > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Congrats! I'm glad the video helped! :) What I remember the most when I met with Ron over a year ago is how slow he moved. It amazed me that he could achieve such great times by moving so slowly. I move much slower than a lot of people when I solve because of that day with Ron. I was just starting when I met him and he had a lot of influence on me. Thanks Ron ;) -Chris On 9/22/05, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@...> wrote: > > Hey chris i want to thank you. After seeing ur fluent solve, i said to > myself i can also solve at that speed. so i did a solve going slowly > and got a very fast time. So i decided to take a avg with the new > method of going slow. here are my times 36.17 44 47.78 37.81 > 39.21 37.85 38.62 39.76 (50.90) (34.39) 37.64 43.56 > > Avg 40.23 seconds! my personal best. > > This time too till the last solve my avg was 39.57 seconds. So all i > had to do to get my first sub40 avg was to make a solve faster than 40 > secs. but again it got on my nerves and i messed up at the last :( > > Anyway i now understand why ppl keep telling to go slow. Till now i > hadent understood, bt after seeing the vid, i had my enlightenment :) > > Happy (slow)cubing! > Sachin. > > > > On 9/22/05, Chris Hunt <huntca@...> wrote: > > On 9/21/05, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@...> wrote: > > > > > > Was that counted as a +2 sec penalty? > > > > > > Nope. I actually had two solves in that tournament that were incredibly > > close to the penalty, but not. I'm just lucky :) > > > > -Chris > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

And if any of you guys do get displaced by the hurricane, give us a shout. I'm sure we'll all do whatever we can to help. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 21, 2005, at 7:52 PM, Chris Hunt wrote: > I'm sorry Sapan. I hope all goes well. > > -Chris > > On 9/21/05, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@...> wrote: >> >> Sadly, I would find that amusing if I wasn't evacuating tomorrow >> morning >> :( >> >> On 9/21/05, Chris Hunt <huntca@...> wrote: >>> We would all get very wet. >>> >>> -CHris >>> >>> On 9/21/05, Craig Bouchard <logitewty@...> wrote: >>>> >>>> According to my parents November is the height of hurrican >>>> season...but they don't know either...huh...I'm just asking what >>>> would >>>> happen if there is one... >>>> >>>> Craig >>>> >>>> P.S. - new PB of 32.25 and PB average of 43.16 >>>> >>>> >>>> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Atkinson" >>>> <m.e.atkinson@g...> wrote: >>>>> if I remember right, hurricane season is officially over on >>>>> November >>>>> 1. So it should be safe. >>>>> >>>>> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" >>>>> <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: >>>>>> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" >>>>>> <logitewty@h...> wrote: >>>>>>> What are we going to do if there is a hurricane scheduled to hit >>>>>>> Florida when WC2005 is??? They are very common there, and my >> parents >>>>>>> have asked me this question multiple times and have said that we >>>> won't >>>>>>> be going... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Craig >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't pretend to be a meteorologist, but I'm fairly certain >> November >>>>>> is out of Hurricane season. You should probably attempt to learn >> more >>>>>> about it, though. I suggest Google. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Mike Bennett >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> -cubekid >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Hmm.. Aren't hurricanes depending on warm sea water? Since the winter will be closer in November the sea temperature will decrease, and the possibility for a hurricane will also decrease. /Gunnar --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" <logitewty@h...> wrote: > According to my parents November is the height of hurrican > season...but they don't know either...huh...I'm just asking what would > happen if there is one... > > Craig > > P.S. - new PB of 32.25 and PB average of 43.16 > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Atkinson" > <m.e.atkinson@g...> wrote: > > if I remember right, hurricane season is officially over on November > > 1. So it should be safe. > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > > <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > > > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > > > What are we going to do if there is a hurricane scheduled to hit > > > > Florida when WC2005 is??? They are very common there, and my parents > > > > have asked me this question multiple times and have said that we > won't > > > > be going... > > > > > > > > Craig > > > > > > I don't pretend to be a meteorologist, but I'm fairly certain November > > > is out of Hurricane season. You should probably attempt to learn more > > > about it, though. I suggest Google. > > > > > > -Mike Bennett

Whohoo! For less than two weeks my best time for megaminx was 3:50. Two days ago I average 3:10 and my best time was 2:55. The first solve today was 2:28.49. I broke my two days old record with 27 seonds. I just love the megaminx since I changed from 6 to 12 colors. Chris Hunt: Your stickers rocks!!! There is still a lot of room for improvement. I'm heading for a sub-2 minutes time. By the way. I also did 1:45 for 2*2*2 + 3*3*3 + 4*4*4 yesterday. /Gunnar

Looks like Frank Morris kinda dominated the event, but why was he disqualified from the 3x3x3 ? Terje -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com [mailto:speedsolvingrubikscube@...m] På vegne av Chris Hunt Sendt: 22. september 2005 06:54 Til: speedsolvingrubikscube Emne: [Speed cubing group] Idaho Open 2005 videos The videos from the Idaho Open 2005 have been uploaded. Thanks for the great tournament Frank and thank you Nick for learning how to use my camera so that you could take these videos. You may view them in the strangepuzzle.com <http://strangepuzzle.com>database or visit the Idaho Open 2005 page here: http://strangepuzzle.com/idaho.html -Chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Congrats Gunnar. Just want to make a correction though. Chris on Cubesmith.com is not Chris Hunt :) Easy to make mistakes with all these Chris'es around :) /Gustav Gunnar Krig skrev: >Whohoo! > >For less than two weeks my best time for megaminx was 3:50. Two days >ago I average 3:10 and my best time was 2:55. The first solve today >was 2:28.49. I broke my two days old record with 27 seonds. I just >love the megaminx since I changed from 6 to 12 colors. Chris Hunt: >Your stickers rocks!!! There is still a lot of room for improvement. >I'm heading for a sub-2 minutes time. > >By the way. I also did 1:45 for 2*2*2 + 3*3*3 + 4*4*4 yesterday. > >/Gunnar > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1.1229 (20050921) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.nod32.com > > > > >

What do you mean by "Ron going slow"? Apparently, it does Not mean the number of moves per sec. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Hunt" <huntca@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Idaho Open 2005 videos > Congrats! I'm glad the video helped! :) > > What I remember the most when I met with Ron over a year ago is how slow he > moved. It amazed me that he could achieve such great times by moving so > slowly. I move much slower than a lot of people when I solve because of that > day with Ron. I was just starting when I met him and he had a lot of > influence on me. > > Thanks Ron ;) > > -Chris > > On 9/22/05, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@...> wrote: > > > > Hey chris i want to thank you. After seeing ur fluent solve, i said to > > myself i can also solve at that speed. so i did a solve going slowly > > and got a very fast time. So i decided to take a avg with the new > > method of going slow. here are my times 36.17 44 47.78 37.81 > > 39.21 37.85 38.62 39.76 (50.90) (34.39) 37.64 43.56 > > > > Avg 40.23 seconds! my personal best. > > > > This time too till the last solve my avg was 39.57 seconds. So all i > > had to do to get my first sub40 avg was to make a solve faster than 40 > > secs. but again it got on my nerves and i messed up at the last :( > > > > Anyway i now understand why ppl keep telling to go slow. Till now i > > hadent understood, bt after seeing the vid, i had my enlightenment :) > > > > Happy (slow)cubing! > > Sachin. > > > > > > > > On 9/22/05, Chris Hunt <huntca@...> wrote: > > > On 9/21/05, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Was that counted as a +2 sec penalty? > > > > > > > > > Nope. I actually had two solves in that tournament that were incredibly > > > close to the penalty, but not. I'm just lucky :) > > > > > > -Chris > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

You're right about that it´s hard to remember who is who among the Chris'es. :-) --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gustav Fredell <gufr5747@s...> wrote: > Congrats Gunnar. Just want to make a correction though. Chris on > Cubesmith.com is not Chris Hunt :) Easy to make mistakes with all these > Chris'es around :) > > /Gustav > > Gunnar Krig skrev: > > >Whohoo! > > > >For less than two weeks my best time for megaminx was 3:50. Two days > >ago I average 3:10 and my best time was 2:55. The first solve today > >was 2:28.49. I broke my two days old record with 27 seonds. I just > >love the megaminx since I changed from 6 to 12 colors. Chris Hunt: > >Your stickers rocks!!! There is still a lot of room for improvement. > >I'm heading for a sub-2 minutes time. > > > >By the way. I also did 1:45 for 2*2*2 + 3*3*3 + 4*4*4 yesterday. > > > >/Gunnar > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1.1229 (20050921) Information __________ > > > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > >http://www.nod32.com > > > > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hunt <huntca@g... > wrote: > On 9/21/05, Sachin Shirwalkar <sachinss@g...> wrote: > > > > Was that counted as a +2 sec penalty? > > > Nope. I actually had two solves in that tournament that were incredibly > close to the penalty, but not. I'm just lucky :) > > -Chris I'm not 100% sure but the video makes me think you were also lucky that noone remembered the rule "The timer must be stopped with both hands flat, palms down and the fingers touching the timer sensors, and without touching the puzzle.", particularly the last part. I'm not complaining, just warning. Maybe at RWC they'll look closer... Cheers! Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hayes" <swedishlf@h...> wrote: > > E-bay is a dangerous thing. Hmm, why? Because you can easily spend a lot of money? Or did you have bad experiences with people there? Stefan

Hey guys, I was just checking his site, "just in case", and I've seen that his timer is up again! but I didn't have time to check how/if it worked well... go ahead, try it! Fran�ois ___________________________________________________________________________ Appel audio GRATUIT partout dans le monde avec le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger T�l�chargez cette version sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com

...is also the record for fastest 100m on a unicycle :-D... http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/index.asp?ID=53230 Fran�ois ___________________________________________________________________________ Appel audio GRATUIT partout dans le monde avec le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger T�l�chargez cette version sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com

I don't think laptop touchpads work the same as stackmat pads. 1. Laptop touchpads are motion sensitive (so that you can drive the mouse pointer). 2. There is no electricity running through your body when you use a laptop touchpad. (I think the reason that makes that you can only use your fingers is that the touch pads are heat sensitive too, but I'm not sure about that). Gilles. 2005/9/22, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@...>: > is the mechanism inside the stackmat possible similar to those of a > touch pad (on a laptop)? because from my experiences, you can only use > you fingers on the touch pads, nothing else. maybe this is the same.. > anyone know?

My parents asked about that too. I just told them that there won't be. Now wait and see...(although I'm pretty sure the hurricane season is over in november)

Maybe we should try to beat both of them at the same time :P 2005/9/22, François Sechet <frsechet@...>: > ...is also the record for fastest 100m on a unicycle :-D... > http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/index.asp?ID=53230 > François > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Appel audio GRATUIT partout dans le monde avec le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger > Téléchargez cette version sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

I need a program to solve the 4x4 or the 2x2 can anyone help?

I need a program to solve the 2x2 can anyone help?

I was asking the same thing to myself...why the DQ? Pedro Terje Kristensen <terje.kristensen@...> escreveu: Looks like Frank Morris kinda dominated the event, but why was he disqualified from the 3x3x3 ? Terje -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com [mailto:speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com] På vegne av Chris Hunt Sendt: 22. september 2005 06:54 Til: speedsolvingrubikscube Emne: [Speed cubing group] Idaho Open 2005 videos The videos from the Idaho Open 2005 have been uploaded. Thanks for the great tournament Frank and thank you Nick for learning how to use my camera so that you could take these videos. You may view them in the strangepuzzle.com <http://strangepuzzle.com>database or visit the Idaho Open 2005 page here: http://strangepuzzle.com/idaho.html -Chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Novo Yahoo! Messenger com voz: ligações, Yahoo! Avatars, novos emoticons e muito mais. Instale agora! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

you could use a 3x3x3 solver and just set the corners as on your 2x2x2 ;-) 2005/9/22, varkmaster2 <varkgirl@...>: > I need a program to solve the 2x2 can anyone help?

Hi! Not all solvers can do that cleverly. The program/solver additionally needs to be able to "ignore" edges. One program which can do that is ACube which u can get from here : http://software.rubikscube.info/JACube/index.html Read the instructions how to do this. (And how to use it in general.) Many use this program to come up with suitable OLL or PLL algs etc. Have fun! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > you could use a 3x3x3 solver and just set the corners as on your 2x2x2 > ;-) > > 2005/9/22, varkmaster2 <varkgirl@m...>: > > I need a program to solve the 2x2 can anyone help?

He tested positive for opiates. Well, Frank and I had talked about it before. In every competition, you need someone sitting out and acting as the main judge running everything and Frank's main thing are the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 events so he said he would be fine with sitting out. For the other events, Chris Hunt did not compete and he ran everything. But take this as a lesson. Don't take opiates. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 22, 2005, at 3:50 AM, Terje Kristensen wrote: > Looks like Frank Morris kinda dominated the event, but why was he > disqualified from the 3x3x3 ? > > Terje > > -----Opprinnelig melding----- > Fra: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com] På vegne av Chris Hunt > Sendt: 22. september 2005 06:54 > Til: speedsolvingrubikscube > Emne: [Speed cubing group] Idaho Open 2005 videos > > > The videos from the Idaho Open 2005 have been uploaded. Thanks for the > great > tournament Frank and thank you Nick for learning how to use my camera > so > that you could take these videos. > > You may view them in the strangepuzzle.com > <http://strangepuzzle.com>database or visit the Idaho Open 2005 page > here: > > http://strangepuzzle.com/idaho.html > > -Chris > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Yes, the hurricane season should be over by the time we get to Florida. Hopefully there isn't any long lasting damage from anything though. This year has really been crazy. But as I said, if someone needs a place to stay because they were in the path of hurricane, I have a large triple-room at Caltech and Mark Polinkovsky can sleep in the hallway. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 22, 2005, at 2:54 AM, Gunnar Krig wrote: > Hmm.. Aren't hurricanes depending on warm sea water? Since the > winter will be closer in November the sea temperature will decrease, > and the possibility for a hurricane will also decrease. > > /Gunnar > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > <logitewty@h...> wrote: >> According to my parents November is the height of hurrican >> season...but they don't know either...huh...I'm just asking what > would >> happen if there is one... >> >> Craig >> >> P.S. - new PB of 32.25 and PB average of 43.16 >> >> >> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Atkinson" >> <m.e.atkinson@g...> wrote: >>> if I remember right, hurricane season is officially over on > November >>> 1. So it should be safe. >>> >>> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" >>> <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: >>>> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" >>>> <logitewty@h...> wrote: >>>>> What are we going to do if there is a hurricane scheduled to > hit >>>>> Florida when WC2005 is??? They are very common there, and my > parents >>>>> have asked me this question multiple times and have said > that we >> won't >>>>> be going... >>>>> >>>>> Craig >>>> >>>> I don't pretend to be a meteorologist, but I'm fairly certain > November >>>> is out of Hurricane season. You should probably attempt to > learn more >>>> about it, though. I suggest Google. >>>> >>>> -Mike Bennett > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Couple of questions: 1) What's the best way to replace stickers on the keychain cube? I can't find a company that sells replacements that size. 2) Is a keychain cube, with the chain cut off, acceptable for 3x3x3 competitions? As-is I would interpret NO because I'd say the hole on the RWB corner counts as a "texture" - and the partial stickers a "marking" - that distinguishes that piece from the others. However, if the hole were filled and smoothed out, and the stickers made uniform, would the cube be legal for 3x3x3 comps? (not that it would be a smart thing to do...)

wha?? opiates?? did i miss something here? On 9/22/05, Tyson Mao <tmao@its.caltech.edu> wrote: > He tested positive for opiates. > > Well, Frank and I had talked about it before. In every competition, > you need someone sitting out and acting as the main judge running > everything and Frank's main thing are the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 events so he > said he would be fine with sitting out. For the other events, Chris > Hunt did not compete and he ran everything. > > But take this as a lesson. Don't take opiates. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 22, 2005, at 3:50 AM, Terje Kristensen wrote: > > > Looks like Frank Morris kinda dominated the event, but why was he > > disqualified from the 3x3x3 ? > > > > Terje > > > > -----Opprinnelig melding----- > > Fra: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com] På vegne av Chris Hunt > > Sendt: 22. september 2005 06:54 > > Til: speedsolvingrubikscube > > Emne: [Speed cubing group] Idaho Open 2005 videos > > > > > > The videos from the Idaho Open 2005 have been uploaded. Thanks for the > > great > > tournament Frank and thank you Nick for learning how to use my camera > > so > > that you could take these videos. > > > > You may view them in the strangepuzzle.com > > <http://strangepuzzle.com>database or visit the Idaho Open 2005 page > > here: > > > > http://strangepuzzle.com/idaho.html > > > > -Chris > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

lol On 9/22/05, Tyson Mao <tmao@...> wrote: > Yes, the hurricane season should be over by the time we get to Florida. > Hopefully there isn't any long lasting damage from anything though. > This year has really been crazy. But as I said, if someone needs a > place to stay because they were in the path of hurricane, I have a > large triple-room at Caltech and Mark Polinkovsky can sleep in the > hallway. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 22, 2005, at 2:54 AM, Gunnar Krig wrote: > > > Hmm.. Aren't hurricanes depending on warm sea water? Since the > > winter will be closer in November the sea temperature will decrease, > > and the possibility for a hurricane will also decrease. > > > > /Gunnar > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > >> According to my parents November is the height of hurrican > >> season...but they don't know either...huh...I'm just asking what > > would > >> happen if there is one... > >> > >> Craig > >> > >> P.S. - new PB of 32.25 and PB average of 43.16 > >> > >> > >> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Atkinson" > >> <m.e.atkinson@g...> wrote: > >>> if I remember right, hurricane season is officially over on > > November > >>> 1. So it should be safe. > >>> > >>> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" > >>> <mikebennett_one@h...> wrote: > >>>> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > >>>> <logitewty@h...> wrote: > >>>>> What are we going to do if there is a hurricane scheduled to > > hit > >>>>> Florida when WC2005 is??? They are very common there, and my > > parents > >>>>> have asked me this question multiple times and have said > > that we > >> won't > >>>>> be going... > >>>>> > >>>>> Craig > >>>> > >>>> I don't pretend to be a meteorologist, but I'm fairly certain > > November > >>>> is out of Hurricane season. You should probably attempt to > > learn more > >>>> about it, though. I suggest Google. > >>>> > >>>> -Mike Bennett > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

seriously, would you actually use a keychain one at a competition? On 9/22/05, kwickykanny <kwickykanny@...> wrote: > Couple of questions: > > 1) What's the best way to replace stickers on the keychain cube? I > can't find a company that sells replacements that size. > > 2) Is a keychain cube, with the chain cut off, acceptable for 3x3x3 > competitions? As-is I would interpret NO because I'd say the hole on > the RWB corner counts as a "texture" - and the partial stickers > a "marking" - that distinguishes that piece from the others. However, > if the hole were filled and smoothed out, and the stickers made > uniform, would the cube be legal for 3x3x3 comps? (not that it would > be a smart thing to do...) > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

the opiates joke was not necessary. Offensive. Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@gmail.com> wrote:wha?? opiates?? did i miss something here? On 9/22/05, Tyson Mao <tmao@...> wrote: > He tested positive for opiates. > > Well, Frank and I had talked about it before. In every competition, > you need someone sitting out and acting as the main judge running > everything and Frank's main thing are the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 events so he > said he would be fine with sitting out. For the other events, Chris > Hunt did not compete and he ran everything. > > But take this as a lesson. Don't take opiates. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology > > On Sep 22, 2005, at 3:50 AM, Terje Kristensen wrote: > > > Looks like Frank Morris kinda dominated the event, but why was he > > disqualified from the 3x3x3 ? > > > > Terje > > > > -----Opprinnelig melding----- > > Fra: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com] På vegne av Chris Hunt > > Sendt: 22. september 2005 06:54 > > Til: speedsolvingrubikscube > > Emne: [Speed cubing group] Idaho Open 2005 videos > > > > > > The videos from the Idaho Open 2005 have been uploaded. Thanks for the > > great > > tournament Frank and thank you Nick for learning how to use my camera > > so > > that you could take these videos. > > > > You may view them in the strangepuzzle.com > > <http://strangepuzzle.com>database or visit the Idaho Open 2005 page > > here: > > > > http://strangepuzzle.com/idaho.html > > > > -Chris > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- -cubekid SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

LOL, no. My times are bad enough as it is on the regular size. But I imagine someone might try to pull this sometime, just to be cute. Or maybe my imagination is much too vivid. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@g...> wrote: > seriously, would you actually use a keychain one at a competition?

Is there any official WCA rule to break a tie? Is it one extra timed attempt per tied competitor?

I sincerely enjoy the fact that opiates are allowed for bigger cube competition. Maybe that's my problem... -Mike --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > He tested positive for opiates. > > Well, Frank and I had talked about it before. In every competition, > you need someone sitting out and acting as the main judge running > everything and Frank's main thing are the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 events so he > said he would be fine with sitting out. For the other events, Chris > Hunt did not compete and he ran everything. > > But take this as a lesson. Don't take opiates. > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "kwickykanny" <kwickykanny@e...> wrote: > > 2) Is a keychain cube, with the chain cut off, acceptable for 3x3x3 > competitions? As-is I would interpret NO because I'd say the hole on > the RWB corner counts as a "texture" - and the partial stickers > a "marking" - that distinguishes that piece from the others. However, > if the hole were filled and smoothed out, and the stickers made > uniform, would the cube be legal for 3x3x3 comps? (not that it would > be a smart thing to do...) Easier: buy two and mix them. Stefan

Hi Jasmine, I was going by the photos on your site. I didn't see the video. CNN has a video archive, but no visible way to search it! :( I see you have good consistancy in your solves. :) I have days where I'm 5 seconds slower than average, and days when I'm 5 seconds faster than average. I think that maybe we should allow another way of taking averages. At a tournament we sit around, talking and scrambling and solving, and then we go up and try to solve really fast, then we sit around talking and scrambling and solving some more before the next solve. We don't do this at home and I think we should. What we do at home does *not* reflect what we do in tournaments and I think that we should allow coffee breaks between attempts at home. Anyway keep up the good work! David J --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, jasmine_ellen <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Hi David J, > > Yes, it was very exciting getting my first sub-30s average! I got a > few more sub-30s averages last week, including a new best of 29.08s. > :) My real average is still definitely over 30s! > > Re your other comment, did you see one of the 25th anniversary TV > interviews I did, or are you referring to the photos I posted? If the > former, which interview was it? I had thought the TV interviews were > generally just screened in the UK. I know the CNN one was shown in > other countries though because one of my friends in Australia told me > that her mother had seen me on CNN. :) > > Jasmine > http://speedcuber.blogspot.com

That's an idea, but hard to do. The hole on the keychains is always on the RWB corner, so you'd have to switch the stickers. And the stickers are NASTY. You basically have to scrub them off, ruining them. (Ain't it great? They don't stay on, but they don't come off either! Can't win.) > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "kwickykanny" > <kwickykanny@e...> wrote: > > > > 2) Is a keychain cube, with the chain cut off, acceptable for 3x3x3 > > competitions? > Easier: buy two and mix them. > > Stefan

Hey guys, I'd like to start learning how to solve bigger cubes blindfolded, but I really don't know where to start. What is a 4x4x4 BLD solve like? Do you solve centers first, then orient/permute edges and corners? What are some good algs to use? -Jason

Yeah, I'd be up for this as well. I plan on catching a Macky in a fishing net one of these days. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 22, 2005, at 5:03 PM, Jason Baum wrote: > Hey guys, > > I'd like to start learning how to solve bigger cubes blindfolded, but > I really don't know where to start. What is a 4x4x4 BLD solve like? > Do you solve centers first, then orient/permute edges and corners? > What are some good algs to use? > > -Jason > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Maybe you could cover the hole with a new sticker if say, Cubesmith sold them, I'd have to get a set. I doubt it would be worth his time to bother with keychain stickers though. Maybe keychain cube could be a separate category, with keychain attached. If you want to remove stubborn stickers, "Goo Gone" works extremely well. It turns the paper/sticker into like jelly that wipes off easily just make sure to peel the clear sticker layer off first. good luck! --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "kwickykanny" <kwickykanny@e...> wrote: > That's an idea, but hard to do. The hole on the keychains is always on > the RWB corner, so you'd have to switch the stickers. And the stickers > are NASTY. You basically have to scrub them off, ruining them. (Ain't > it great? They don't stay on, but they don't come off either! Can't > win.) > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "kwickykanny" > > <kwickykanny@e...> wrote: > > > > > > 2) Is a keychain cube, with the chain cut off, acceptable for 3x3x3 > > > competitions? > > Easier: buy two and mix them. > > > > Stefan

The Goo Gone makes your cube smell like citrus! At the Caltech bookstore, they sell this excellent "adhesive" remover. Works perfectly for removing the goo from the cube. Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 22, 2005, at 6:26 PM, skeneegee wrote: > Maybe you could cover the hole with a new sticker if say, Cubesmith > sold them, I'd have to get a set. I doubt it would be worth his time > to bother with keychain stickers though. Maybe keychain cube could be > a separate category, with keychain attached. > > If you want to remove stubborn stickers, "Goo Gone" works extremely > well. It turns the paper/sticker into like jelly that wipes off easily > just make sure to peel the clear sticker layer off first. > > good luck! > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "kwickykanny" > <kwickykanny@e...> wrote: >> That's an idea, but hard to do. The hole on the keychains is always >> on >> the RWB corner, so you'd have to switch the stickers. And the >> stickers >> are NASTY. You basically have to scrub them off, ruining them. >> (Ain't >> it great? They don't stay on, but they don't come off either! Can't >> win.) >> >>> --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "kwickykanny" >>> <kwickykanny@e...> wrote: >>>> >>>> 2) Is a keychain cube, with the chain cut off, acceptable for 3x3x3 >>>> competitions? >>> Easier: buy two and mix them. >>> >>> Stefan > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Yay! I'm happy to finally be able to say that I know all the ZBLL algs for the T-orientation! (do R' F R B' R' F' R B from oriented LL) Dan Harris has already done this also, and I am just happy to say that I am among those who have done it :-D It took me 5 months roughly to learn all the algs. I think this could be done faster if someone had several hours a day every day to learn, but I think 72 algs in 5 months is not too bad, that works out to about 2 days per alg. 493 algs minus the 72 and the 21 for PLL makes 400 so in about 800 days I can be finished with ZBLL. That works out to about 3 years to learn it total. I've extended my goal to learn the method to 3 years now, and I'm still excited as ever about finally knowing it! My 1 look LL percentage now is 25.72% which is over 1/4!! This method is awesome! On to the U-orientation next! Chris

Congrats Chris. -Chris On 9/22/05, cmhardw <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > Yay! I'm happy to finally be able to say that I know all the ZBLL > algs for the T-orientation! (do R' F R B' R' F' R B from oriented LL) > > Dan Harris has already done this also, and I am just happy to say that > I am among those who have done it :-D > > It took me 5 months roughly to learn all the algs. I think this could > be done faster if someone had several hours a day every day to learn, > but I think 72 algs in 5 months is not too bad, that works out to > about 2 days per alg. > > 493 algs minus the 72 and the 21 for PLL makes 400 so in about 800 > days I can be finished with ZBLL. That works out to about 3 years to > learn it total. > > I've extended my goal to learn the method to 3 years now, and I'm > still excited as ever about finally knowing it! > > My 1 look LL percentage now is 25.72% which is over 1/4!! > > This method is awesome! On to the U-orientation next! > > Chris > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Congrats, Chris! I really admire your dedication to learning the ZB method. I'm actually thinking about learning ZB after the world champs, but I'm really intimidated by it. I just can't imagine knowing as many algs as you know, and you've still got a few hundred to go. ;) Keep up the good work! -Jason

I am finding it alot harder than i expected to learn/understand all the algs. Do you guys have any clever practicing tips for me. I find it hard to practice the algs when there are so many of them.

im not sure if this has been said yet but... learn f2l intuitively. makes you feel better about yourself when you can actually do it that way. On 9/22/05, austinbos <austinbos@...> wrote: > I am finding it alot harder than i expected to learn/understand all the > algs. Do you guys have any clever practicing tips for me. I find it > hard to practice the algs when there are so many of them. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

Ya see, when people see me cubing and I try to convince them that I am, in fact, NOT the most obsessed (call it dedicated) cuber on Earth, they have a hard time believing it. I should show them that post. It is an absolutely phenomenal achievement to do what you have done, and I admire the hell out of you! Congratulations and may the next 400 algorithms stick like taffy in your head and fingers! -Daniel

I didn't learn F2L intuitively at first. I tried to, but I just couldn't understood how the algs worked at first. So I printed out Macky's and Katsu's F2L algs and each day would learn a few of them. I would only practice doing F2L in pairs, I wouldn't do first layer corners then middle layer edges like I was doing before. This was really frustrating at first because since you only know a few cases you have to convert everything into what you know, but it's good to do this because it takes some practice to get used to looking for pairs and not just single pieces. Anyway, my advice to you is don't worry about learning F2L intuitively, just print out a list or two of F2L algs and learn two or three each day. They're all pretty similar so learning the algs shouldn't be too hard. Then just practice the algs you know by converting the pair on the cube into a case you've learned. After a while, the algs will just "click" and you probably won't even have finish going through the list. The intuition will come after you've learned some algs and have practiced with them. Now, I do a mix of both intuition and alg recognition to solve the cube. My best average is 17.52, and my average average is about 18.5. Hope this helps. -Jason

lol. okay, i guess learning it intuitively isnt easy. but when learning, at least try to understand what happens. it makes it easier, and you dont have to even learn all the algs because you will automatically see it after a while. regardless, its your choice, as long as you dont peel the stickers off or break the cube... or anything like that. On 9/23/05, Jason Baum <speedrunningcuber@...> wrote: > I didn't learn F2L intuitively at first. I tried to, but I just > couldn't understood how the algs worked at first. So I printed out > Macky's and Katsu's F2L algs and each day would learn a few of them. > I would only practice doing F2L in pairs, I wouldn't do first layer > corners then middle layer edges like I was doing before. This was > really frustrating at first because since you only know a few cases > you have to convert everything into what you know, but it's good to do > this because it takes some practice to get used to looking for pairs > and not just single pieces. > > Anyway, my advice to you is don't worry about learning F2L > intuitively, just print out a list or two of F2L algs and learn two or > three each day. They're all pretty similar so learning the algs > shouldn't be too hard. Then just practice the algs you know by > converting the pair on the cube into a case you've learned. After a > while, the algs will just "click" and you probably won't even have > finish going through the list. The intuition will come after you've > learned some algs and have practiced with them. > > Now, I do a mix of both intuition and alg recognition to solve the > cube. My best average is 17.52, and my average average is about > 18.5. > > Hope this helps. > > -Jason > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

hello friend's, can any one send me the solution of given problem if possible.Specially last question.please try to find the solution and reply soon.As i am new member of this group i do not know the rule and regulation of this group.Even if this group is not related to puzzle than also try to get the solution from your contact please . 1. Find the maximum number of parts that you can get after dividing a circle with n lines. 2. Decode the following B I L L + W I L L I A M M O N I C A --------------------------- C L I N T O N Assuming every alphabet represents a particular digit. 3. Mr. ANYONE left ANYTOWN by car to attend a wedding at ANYCITY. He had been driving for exactly two hours when the car got punctured. He took his driver ANYBODY 10 minutes to change the wheel. In order to play safe they covered the remaining distance at a speed of 30 mph. Consequently, Mr. ANYONE was at the wedding half an hour behind schedule. “Had the car got the puncture 30 miles later, I would have been only 15 minutes late” he told the driver. How far is the ANYCITY from ANYTOWN? 5. Divide Rs.84 (in whole Rs. increments) into a number of bags so that I can ask for any amount between Rs 1 and Rs 84, and you can give me the proper amount by giving me a certain number of these bags without opening them. What is the minimum number of bags you will require? 6. A cylinder 108 cm high has a circumference of 24 cm. A string makes exactly 6 complete turns round the cylinder while its two ends touch the cylinder's top and bottom. How long is the string in cm? 7. A large water tank has two inlet pipes (a large one and a small one) and one outlet pipe. It takes 1 hour to fill the tank with the large inlet pipe. On the other hand, it takes 4 hours to fill the tank with the small inlet pipe. The outlet pipe allows the full tank to be emptied in 5 hours. What fraction of the tank (initially empty) will be filled in 0.48 hours if all three pipes are in operation? Give your answer to two decimal places (e.g., 0.25, 0.5, or 0.75). 8. Mr. Juari offers to play a card game with Mr. Sharabi using a normal deck of 52 cards. The rules of the game are that they will turn over two cards at a time. If the cards are both black, they go into Mr. Juari’s pile. If they are both red, they go into Mr. Sharabi’s pile. If there is one red and one black, they go into the discard pile. They repeat the two cards flipping until they have gone through all 52 cards. Whoever has more cards in their pile at the end wins. If there is a tie, Mr. Juari wins. What are Mr. Sharabi’s chances of winning this game? 10. A number is called a palindrome when it is equal to the number you get when all its digits are reversed. For example, 1551 is a palindrome. We discovered a curious thing. We took the number 461, reversed the digits, giving the number 164, and calculated the sum of these two numbers: 461 164 + ------- 625 We repeated the process of reversing the digits and calculating the sum two more times: 625 526 + ------- 1151 1511 + ------- 2662 To our surprise, the result 2662 was a palindrome. We decided to see if this was a pure coincidence or not. So we took another 3-digit number, reversed it, which gave a larger number, and added the two. The result was not a palindrome. We repeated the process, which resulted in another 3-digit number, which was still not a palindrome. We had to repeat the process twice more to finally arrive at a 4-digit number, which was a palindrome. The Question: What was the 3-digit number we started with the second time? --------------------------------- Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As far as i can tell the only number that satisfies all constraints in task 10 is 182. Terje 182 + 281 463 + 364 827 + 728 1555 + 5551 7106 + 6017 13123 -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com [mailto:speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com] På vegne av neeraj kumar Sendt: 23. september 2005 10:10 Til: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Emne: [Speed cubing group] please help me solving question hello friend's, can any one send me the solution of given problem if possible.Specially last question.please try to find the solution and reply soon.As i am new member of this group i do not know the rule and regulation of this group.Even if this group is not related to puzzle than also try to get the solution from your contact please . 1. Find the maximum number of parts that you can get after dividing a circle with n lines. 2. Decode the following B I L L + W I L L I A M M O N I C A --------------------------- C L I N T O N Assuming every alphabet represents a particular digit. 3. Mr. ANYONE left ANYTOWN by car to attend a wedding at ANYCITY. He had been driving for exactly two hours when the car got punctured. He took his driver ANYBODY 10 minutes to change the wheel. In order to play safe they covered the remaining distance at a speed of 30 mph. Consequently, Mr. ANYONE was at the wedding half an hour behind schedule. “Had the car got the puncture 30 miles later, I would have been only 15 minutes late” he told the driver. How far is the ANYCITY from ANYTOWN? 5. Divide Rs.84 (in whole Rs. increments) into a number of bags so that I can ask for any amount between Rs 1 and Rs 84, and you can give me the proper amount by giving me a certain number of these bags without opening them. What is the minimum number of bags you will require? 6. A cylinder 108 cm high has a circumference of 24 cm. A string makes exactly 6 complete turns round the cylinder while its two ends touch the cylinder's top and bottom. How long is the string in cm? 7. A large water tank has two inlet pipes (a large one and a small one) and one outlet pipe. It takes 1 hour to fill the tank with the large inlet pipe. On the other hand, it takes 4 hours to fill the tank with the small inlet pipe. The outlet pipe allows the full tank to be emptied in 5 hours. What fraction of the tank (initially empty) will be filled in 0.48 hours if all three pipes are in operation? Give your answer to two decimal places (e.g., 0.25, 0.5, or 0.75). 8. Mr. Juari offers to play a card game with Mr. Sharabi using a normal deck of 52 cards. The rules of the game are that they will turn over two cards at a time. If the cards are both black, they go into Mr. Juari’s pile. If they are both red, they go into Mr. Sharabi’s pile. If there is one red and one black, they go into the discard pile. They repeat the two cards flipping until they have gone through all 52 cards. Whoever has more cards in their pile at the end wins. If there is a tie, Mr. Juari wins. What are Mr. Sharabi’s chances of winning this game? 10. A number is called a palindrome when it is equal to the number you get when all its digits are reversed. For example, 1551 is a palindrome. We discovered a curious thing. We took the number 461, reversed the digits, giving the number 164, and calculated the sum of these two numbers: 461 164 + ------- 625 We repeated the process of reversing the digits and calculating the sum two more times: 625 526 + ------- 1151 1511 + ------- 2662 To our surprise, the result 2662 was a palindrome. We decided to see if this was a pure coincidence or not. So we took another 3-digit number, reversed it, which gave a larger number, and added the two. The result was not a palindrome. We repeated the process, which resulted in another 3-digit number, which was still not a palindrome. We had to repeat the process twice more to finally arrive at a 4-digit number, which was a palindrome. The Question: What was the 3-digit number we started with the second time? --------------------------------- Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner now. 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hmm ... wrong, try try again. 192,291,483,384,867,768,1635,5361,6996 four digit number and 4 sums ... gives 192 -> 6992 ... i think :) Terje -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com [mailto:speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com] På vegne av neeraj kumar Sendt: 23. september 2005 10:10 Til: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Emne: [Speed cubing group] please help me solving question hello friend's, can any one send me the solution of given problem if possible.Specially last question.please try to find the solution and reply soon.As i am new member of this group i do not know the rule and regulation of this group.Even if this group is not related to puzzle than also try to get the solution from your contact please . 1. Find the maximum number of parts that you can get after dividing a circle with n lines. 2. Decode the following B I L L + W I L L I A M M O N I C A --------------------------- C L I N T O N Assuming every alphabet represents a particular digit. 3. Mr. ANYONE left ANYTOWN by car to attend a wedding at ANYCITY. He had been driving for exactly two hours when the car got punctured. He took his driver ANYBODY 10 minutes to change the wheel. In order to play safe they covered the remaining distance at a speed of 30 mph. Consequently, Mr. ANYONE was at the wedding half an hour behind schedule. “Had the car got the puncture 30 miles later, I would have been only 15 minutes late” he told the driver. How far is the ANYCITY from ANYTOWN? 5. Divide Rs.84 (in whole Rs. increments) into a number of bags so that I can ask for any amount between Rs 1 and Rs 84, and you can give me the proper amount by giving me a certain number of these bags without opening them. What is the minimum number of bags you will require? 6. A cylinder 108 cm high has a circumference of 24 cm. A string makes exactly 6 complete turns round the cylinder while its two ends touch the cylinder's top and bottom. How long is the string in cm? 7. A large water tank has two inlet pipes (a large one and a small one) and one outlet pipe. It takes 1 hour to fill the tank with the large inlet pipe. On the other hand, it takes 4 hours to fill the tank with the small inlet pipe. The outlet pipe allows the full tank to be emptied in 5 hours. What fraction of the tank (initially empty) will be filled in 0.48 hours if all three pipes are in operation? Give your answer to two decimal places (e.g., 0.25, 0.5, or 0.75). 8. Mr. Juari offers to play a card game with Mr. Sharabi using a normal deck of 52 cards. The rules of the game are that they will turn over two cards at a time. If the cards are both black, they go into Mr. Juari’s pile. If they are both red, they go into Mr. Sharabi’s pile. If there is one red and one black, they go into the discard pile. They repeat the two cards flipping until they have gone through all 52 cards. Whoever has more cards in their pile at the end wins. If there is a tie, Mr. Juari wins. What are Mr. Sharabi’s chances of winning this game? 10. A number is called a palindrome when it is equal to the number you get when all its digits are reversed. For example, 1551 is a palindrome. We discovered a curious thing. We took the number 461, reversed the digits, giving the number 164, and calculated the sum of these two numbers: 461 164 + ------- 625 We repeated the process of reversing the digits and calculating the sum two more times: 625 526 + ------- 1151 1511 + ------- 2662 To our surprise, the result 2662 was a palindrome. We decided to see if this was a pure coincidence or not. So we took another 3-digit number, reversed it, which gave a larger number, and added the two. The result was not a palindrome. We repeated the process, which resulted in another 3-digit number, which was still not a palindrome. We had to repeat the process twice more to finally arrive at a 4-digit number, which was a palindrome. The Question: What was the 3-digit number we started with the second time? --------------------------------- Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Jigsaw+puzzle+game&w1=Jigsaw+puzzle +game&w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w4=Word+ puzzle+game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=irjrM9wdJD BnytECiSfUCw> puzzle game Free <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w1=Jigsaw+p uzzle+game&w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w4= Word+puzzle+game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=5IEF0 wvHk31uvuXI6ReWEw> puzzle inlay games Educational <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w1=Jigs aw+puzzle+game&w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle &w4=Word+puzzle+game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=3 7T2K_4zOte4R94IVKMFNQ> game and puzzle Word <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Word+puzzle+game&w1=Jigsaw+puzzle+g ame&w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w4=Word+pu zzle+game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=3DsIilZKH4dS S_WgIx9QRg> puzzle game Kid <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kid+puzzle+game&w1=Jigsaw+puzzle+ga me&w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w4=Word+puz zle+game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=2-DgzSlkRkTyI ak1hdhkgQ> puzzle game Puzzle <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Puzzle+games&w1=Jigsaw+puzzle+game& w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w4=Word+puzzle +game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=EJHY58oeC85Up2uB 7KhBMA> games _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube> " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsub scribe> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . _____ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello, I've finished the program that gives you LL scrambles. You can find it here : http://gillesvdp.phpnet.org/LL_Scrambler/ As I write these lines, there are only 50 scrambles and it automatically show 13 scrambles. I'll add the other scrambles in the next few days. (Actually it doesn't always show 13 scrambles, because every scramble is chosen individually. (For example : the 2nd scramble will be numer 15 and the5th scramble can also be the 15th in the data base. In that case, You will only have 12 scrambles. But the probability that this happens is quite low with 1212 possibilities.) I'll add new features soon such as the possibility to chose the number of srambles you want to have,... The numbers shown on the page are the same as on this page : http://www.ai.univ-paris8.fr/~bh/cube/solutions_tout.html. There is one thing i wanted to ask you : should I put the "Solved case" scramble ? At this moment, you could have this, meaning that you'll have an extraordinary fast LL, but it's true that you can have it when you solve the whole cube. Do you think I should leave it or remove it ? Thank you, Gilles.

Well, your question about the "solved" scramble brings up a new one, I think. Well, I don't know if it's too much work/faisible, but a nice idea would be to add the probabilities to each scramble, so you have for example more chances to get this or that scramble than that other one? because all LLs aren't born equal... and you would for instance have more chance to get a Sune-type OLL and a T PLL than for instance a "no edge-all corners" OLL and a H PLL. Well, just a thought, and you probably have other stuff to do, just like me... I shouldn't be writing emails... GO WORK, Fran�ois... Fran�ois Gilles van den Peereboom a �crit : > Hello, > > I've finished the program that gives you LL scrambles. > You can find it here : http://gillesvdp.phpnet.org/LL_Scrambler/ > > As I write these lines, there are only 50 scrambles and it > automatically show 13 scrambles. > I'll add the other scrambles in the next few days. > (Actually it doesn't always show 13 scrambles, because every scramble > is chosen individually. (For example : the 2nd scramble will be numer > 15 and the5th scramble can also be the 15th in the data base. In that > case, You will only have 12 scrambles. But the probability that this > happens is quite low with 1212 possibilities.) > > I'll add new features soon such as the possibility to chose the number > of srambles you want to have,... > The numbers shown on the page are the same as on this page : > http://www.ai.univ-paris8.fr/~bh/cube/solutions_tout.html. > <http://www.ai.univ-paris8.fr/%7Ebh/cube/solutions_tout.html.> > > There is one thing i wanted to ask you : should I put the "Solved > case" scramble ? > At this moment, you could have this, meaning that you'll have an > extraordinary fast LL, but it's true that you can have it when you > solve the whole cube. > Do you think I should leave it or remove it ? > > Thank you, > Gilles. > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Jigsaw puzzle game > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Jigsaw+puzzle+game&w1=Jigsaw+puzzle+game&w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w4=Word+puzzle+game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=irjrM9wdJDBnytECiSfUCw> > Free puzzle inlay games > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w1=Jigsaw+puzzle+game&w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w4=Word+puzzle+game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=5IEF0wvHk31uvuXI6ReWEw> > Educational game and puzzle > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w1=Jigsaw+puzzle+game&w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w4=Word+puzzle+game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=37T2K_4zOte4R94IVKMFNQ> > > Word puzzle game > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Word+puzzle+game&w1=Jigsaw+puzzle+game&w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w4=Word+puzzle+game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=3DsIilZKH4dSS_WgIx9QRg> > Kid puzzle game > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kid+puzzle+game&w1=Jigsaw+puzzle+game&w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w4=Word+puzzle+game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=2-DgzSlkRkTyIak1hdhkgQ> > Puzzle games > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Puzzle+games&w1=Jigsaw+puzzle+game&w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w4=Word+puzzle+game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=EJHY58oeC85Up2uB7KhBMA> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube>" on the web. > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ___________________________________________________________________________ Appel audio GRATUIT partout dans le monde avec le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger T�l�chargez cette version sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com

My first task will be to make all cases possible to have. (1162 to go :p). And then if someone gives the probability for each case (which I won't do, butif you are interested, I can always to that), I can fix that so that cases will have their own and true probability to occur. But first, let's have all the cases. :p 2005/9/23, François Sechet <frsechet@...>: > Well, your question about the "solved" scramble brings up a new one, I > think. Well, I don't know if it's too much work/faisible, but a nice > idea would be to add the probabilities to each scramble, so you have for > example more chances to get this or that scramble than that other one? > because all LLs aren't born equal... and you would for instance have > more chance to get a Sune-type OLL and a T PLL than for instance a "no > edge-all corners" OLL and a H PLL. Well, just a thought, and you > probably have other stuff to do, just like me... I shouldn't be writing > emails... GO WORK, François... > François > > Gilles van den Peereboom a écrit : > > > Hello, > > > > I've finished the program that gives you LL scrambles. > > You can find it here : http://gillesvdp.phpnet.org/LL_Scrambler/ > > > > As I write these lines, there are only 50 scrambles and it > > automatically show 13 scrambles. > > I'll add the other scrambles in the next few days. > > (Actually it doesn't always show 13 scrambles, because every scramble > > is chosen individually. (For example : the 2nd scramble will be numer > > 15 and the5th scramble can also be the 15th in the data base. In that > > case, You will only have 12 scrambles. But the probability that this > > happens is quite low with 1212 possibilities.) > > > > I'll add new features soon such as the possibility to chose the number > > of srambles you want to have,... > > The numbers shown on the page are the same as on this page : > > http://www.ai.univ-paris8.fr/~bh/cube/solutions_tout.html. > > <http://www.ai.univ-paris8.fr/%7Ebh/cube/solutions_tout.html.> > > > > There is one thing i wanted to ask you : should I put the "Solved > > case" scramble ? > > At this moment, you could have this, meaning that you'll have an > > extraordinary fast LL, but it's true that you can have it when you > > solve the whole cube. > > Do you think I should leave it or remove it ? > > > > Thank you, > > Gilles. > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Jigsaw puzzle game > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Jigsaw+puzzle+game&w1=Jigsaw+puzzle+game&w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w4=Word+puzzle+game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=irjrM9wdJDBnytECiSfUCw> > > Free puzzle inlay games > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w1=Jigsaw+puzzle+game&w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w4=Word+puzzle+game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=5IEF0wvHk31uvuXI6ReWEw> > > Educational game and puzzle > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w1=Jigsaw+puzzle+game&w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w4=Word+puzzle+game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=37T2K_4zOte4R94IVKMFNQ> > > > > Word puzzle game > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Word+puzzle+game&w1=Jigsaw+puzzle+game&w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w4=Word+puzzle+game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=3DsIilZKH4dSS_WgIx9QRg> > > Kid puzzle game > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Kid+puzzle+game&w1=Jigsaw+puzzle+game&w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w4=Word+puzzle+game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=2-DgzSlkRkTyIak1hdhkgQ> > > Puzzle games > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Puzzle+games&w1=Jigsaw+puzzle+game&w2=Free+puzzle+inlay+games&w3=Educational+game+and+puzzle&w4=Word+puzzle+game&w5=Kid+puzzle+game&w6=Puzzle+games&c=6&s=147&.sig=EJHY58oeC85Up2uB7KhBMA> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > * Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube>" on the web. > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Appel audio GRATUIT partout dans le monde avec le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger > Téléchargez cette version sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Hey Gilles, I've been thinking about adding the probabilities to the ZBLL cases on my page just as a "why not" kind of thing. If you could use those numbers for the "all edges oriented" cases of your LL program let me know and I will start adding those in to my site immediately. I mean that's something I was thinking about doing anyway, but if you could use it, then I can go ahead and start. Let me know if you're interested. Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > My first task will be to make all cases possible to have. (1162 to go :p). > And then if someone gives the probability for each case (which I won't > do, butif you are interested, I can always to that), I can fix that so > that cases will have their own and true probability to occur. > > But first, let's have all the cases. :p

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > I can fix that so > that cases will have their own and true probability to occur. It's not clear that it is really desirable for the output scrambles to reflect the true probabilities... you might want to get extra practice on those cases that occur /less/ frequently in "real life". (They might occur less frequently, but taken all together they are still a significant fraction of the total!) Just a thought, anyway. Mike

mm.. Well, the probability thing is a bit complicated. Everybody has his own preference. Note : 100 scrambles available now. 2005/9/23, mike_go_uk <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom > <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > > I can fix that so > > that cases will have their own and true probability to occur. > > It's not clear that it is really desirable for the output scrambles to > reflect the true probabilities... you might want to get extra practice > on those cases that occur /less/ frequently in "real life". (They > might occur less frequently, but taken all together they are still a > significant fraction of the total!) > > Just a thought, anyway. > Mike > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Hey Chris, Well, what is possible is to split my LL scrambler into different LL scramblers : 1. LL in 1 step : 1212 cases 2. ZBLL : 493 cases I'm actually talking to Joel Heymbeek, and he's interested in helping you for the "edges oriented-scrambler" with probabilities. ;-) So maybe you can do that you two together while i finish my all-in-1 scrambler. I'm happy to see that people are interested in that. :-) Gilles. 2005/9/23, cmhardw <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>: > Hey Gilles, > > I've been thinking about adding the probabilities to the ZBLL cases on > my page just as a "why not" kind of thing. > > If you could use those numbers for the "all edges oriented" cases of > your LL program let me know and I will start adding those in to my > site immediately. > > I mean that's something I was thinking about doing anyway, but if you > could use it, then I can go ahead and start. > > Let me know if you're interested. > > Chris

Hi! It could simply be a user option. No big deal ;-) Cheers! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, mike_go_uk <no_reply@y...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom > <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > > I can fix that so > > that cases will have their own and true probability to occur. > > It's not clear that it is really desirable for the output scrambles to > reflect the true probabilities... you might want to get extra practice > on those cases that occur /less/ frequently in "real life". (They > might occur less frequently, but taken all together they are still a > significant fraction of the total!) > > Just a thought, anyway. > Mike

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > > 1. LL in 1 step : 1212 cases Actually there should be (4! * 3^4) * (4! * 2^4) / 12 = 62208 cases. And they all have the same probability so you don't need to care about that. Cheers! Stefan

HEY. I do cross on red, and have orange on top while doing LL. I know that was like 100 mesages ago, but still. I do red as cross and orange with LL. Im not that good however, but red OWNS! :-P so does orange ok peace out [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thats some dominant one handed solving. GREAT JOB!!!! and the best of luck with more amazing solves parth [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is all very interesting but isn't there some sort of group out there to help people with homework? If not there should be! ----- Original Message ----- From: "neeraj kumar" <georgian_neeraj@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 9:09 AM Subject: [Speed cubing group] please help me solving question hello friend's, can any one send me the solution of given problem if possible.Specially last question.please try to find the solution and reply soon.As i am new member of this group i do not know the rule and regulation of this group.Even if this group is not related to puzzle than also try to get the solution from your contact please . 1. Find the maximum number of parts that you can get after dividing a circle with n lines. 2. Decode the following B I L L + W I L L I A M M O N I C A --------------------------- C L I N T O N Assuming every alphabet represents a particular digit. 3. Mr. ANYONE left ANYTOWN by car to attend a wedding at ANYCITY. He had been driving for exactly two hours when the car got punctured. He took his driver ANYBODY 10 minutes to change the wheel. In order to play safe they covered the remaining distance at a speed of 30 mph. Consequently, Mr. ANYONE was at the wedding half an hour behind schedule. "Had the car got the puncture 30 miles later, I would have been only 15 minutes late" he told the driver. How far is the ANYCITY from ANYTOWN? 5. Divide Rs.84 (in whole Rs. increments) into a number of bags so that I can ask for any amount between Rs 1 and Rs 84, and you can give me the proper amount by giving me a certain number of these bags without opening them. What is the minimum number of bags you will require? 6. A cylinder 108 cm high has a circumference of 24 cm. A string makes exactly 6 complete turns round the cylinder while its two ends touch the cylinder's top and bottom. How long is the string in cm? 7. A large water tank has two inlet pipes (a large one and a small one) and one outlet pipe. It takes 1 hour to fill the tank with the large inlet pipe. On the other hand, it takes 4 hours to fill the tank with the small inlet pipe. The outlet pipe allows the full tank to be emptied in 5 hours. What fraction of the tank (initially empty) will be filled in 0.48 hours if all three pipes are in operation? Give your answer to two decimal places (e.g., 0.25, 0.5, or 0.75). 8. Mr. Juari offers to play a card game with Mr. Sharabi using a normal deck of 52 cards. The rules of the game are that they will turn over two cards at a time. If the cards are both black, they go into Mr. Juari's pile. If they are both red, they go into Mr. Sharabi's pile. If there is one red and one black, they go into the discard pile. They repeat the two cards flipping until they have gone through all 52 cards. Whoever has more cards in their pile at the end wins. If there is a tie, Mr. Juari wins. What are Mr. Sharabi's chances of winning this game? 10. A number is called a palindrome when it is equal to the number you get when all its digits are reversed. For example, 1551 is a palindrome. We discovered a curious thing. We took the number 461, reversed the digits, giving the number 164, and calculated the sum of these two numbers: 461 164 + ------- 625 We repeated the process of reversing the digits and calculating the sum two more times: 625 526 + ------- 1151 1511 + ------- 2662 To our surprise, the result 2662 was a palindrome. We decided to see if this was a pure coincidence or not. So we took another 3-digit number, reversed it, which gave a larger number, and added the two. The result was not a palindrome. We repeated the process, which resulted in another 3-digit number, which was still not a palindrome. We had to repeat the process twice more to finally arrive at a 4-digit number, which was a palindrome. The Question: What was the 3-digit number we started with the second time? --------------------------------- Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links

Hi! Without doing calculations, im sure that 1211 (1212) is the reduced number wrt symmetry/inversion/translation. Correct me if im wrong. These reduced cases won't have same probability anymore :-) Have fun! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den > Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > > > > 1. LL in 1 step : 1212 cases > > Actually there should be (4! * 3^4) * (4! * 2^4) / 12 = 62208 cases. > And they all have the same probability so you don't need to care about > that. > > Cheers! > Stefan

I have been practicing 3x3x3 feetsolving for only 3 days, and my best avg is 2:48.77! No other feetcubers than me and Kåre? P.S. Next WC must be in Europe.

I get kind of bothered when people say there are only 1212 LL cases, ESPECIALLY when they say there are 21 PLL cases and 57 OLLs. If you say there are 1212 LL cases, then there are 13 PLLs and 40 OLLs. However, since most people consider there to be 21 PLLs and 57 OLLs, so if you use the numbers 21 and 57, please don't say there are only 1212 LL cases. I can't invert algs "on the fly" and I especially can't mirror and invert algs on the fly. If anybody here is one of the people that can mirror and invert any algorithm without thinking about it, let me know. :) ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den > Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > > > > 1. LL in 1 step : 1212 cases > > Actually there should be (4! * 3^4) * (4! * 2^4) / 12 = 62208 cases. > And they all have the same probability so you don't need to care about > that. > > Cheers! > Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "mahtianssi" <mahtianssi@y...> wrote: > P.S. Next WC must be in Europe. I'd prefer Asia, Australia, or South America. I've never been to those continents. :) Antarctica doesn't have any possible venues, right? ~ Bob

Just for completeness. http://www.dredg.com/main/catchwithout.jpg This is a rock band from California, but are known world wide by many. They put out an album earlier this year, and followed up with art for each track on the album. This is one of the pieces. But no, the song itself makes no mention of the cube.

But if it's in Europe, I can get some more Kinder Shokolade. ;) -Mike --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "mahtianssi" > <mahtianssi@y...> wrote: > > > P.S. Next WC must be in Europe. > > I'd prefer Asia, Australia, or South America. I've never been to > those continents. :) Antarctica doesn't have any possible venues, right? > > ~ Bob

I'm working on a couple files right now. The first will have scrambling algs for all last layer cases (62208). The other will have scrambling algs for all last layer ZB cases (7776 cases). Hopefully someone will be able to use the files in a web based scrambling program. If not, I'll finish that part, too. I hope to have the ZB file done this afternoon and the complete file in the next day or so. On 9/23/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den > Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > > > > 1. LL in 1 step : 1212 cases > > Actually there should be (4! * 3^4) * (4! * 2^4) / 12 = 62208 cases. > And they all have the same probability so you don't need to care about > that. > > Cheers! > Stefan > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> wrote: > I get kind of bothered when people say there are only 1212 LL cases, > ESPECIALLY when they say there are 21 PLL cases and 57 OLLs. If you > say there are 1212 LL cases, then there are 13 PLLs and 40 OLLs. > However, since most people consider there to be 21 PLLs and 57 OLLs, > so if you use the numbers 21 and 57, please don't say there are only > 1212 LL cases. I can't invert algs "on the fly" and I especially > can't mirror and invert algs on the fly. If anybody here is one of > the people that can mirror and invert any algorithm without thinking > about it, let me know. :) > > ~ Bob Hi Bob, Depends on what you mean by "without thinking about it." I usually pay attention to what I'm doing but I can invert and mirror "on the fly" as it were. I spent some time yesterday working on an algorithm right handed, this morning in a solve I needed the left handed mirror and I just did it. I "thought about it" but it took no longer than what I had practiced right handed. David J PS For a long time I've read that there are 1211 positions, not counting inverses and mirrors. Anyone else notice the irony that Macky's record is 12.11 seconds?

Right, but if the object is to write a program that will generate scrambles with the same probability as real life, you are making it more complicated by reducing the 62208 cases to 1212 and then weighting the probability of each case. You'd then have to also do a random symmetry/inversion/translation modification to the result to make sure your program can generate every case. Much simpler to pick any one of the 62208 cases at random. On 9/23/05, Per Kristen Fredlund <aspiring_to_love@...> wrote: > Hi! > > Without doing calculations, im sure that 1211 (1212) is the reduced > number wrt symmetry/inversion/translation. > > Correct me if im wrong. These reduced cases won't have same > probability anymore :-) > > Have fun! > > -Per > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den > > Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > > > > > > 1. LL in 1 step : 1212 cases > > > > Actually there should be (4! * 3^4) * (4! * 2^4) / 12 = 62208 cases. > > And they all have the same probability so you don't need to care > about > > that. > > > > Cheers! > > Stefan > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

I've put the 7776 ZB scrambling algorithms in http://puzzlingaddiction.com/Cube/zb-scramble.zip On 9/23/05, David Barr <david20708@...> wrote: > I'm working on a couple files right now. The first will have > scrambling algs for all last layer cases (62208). The other will have > scrambling algs for all last layer ZB cases (7776 cases). Hopefully > someone will be able to use the files in a web based scrambling > program. If not, I'll finish that part, too. I hope to have the ZB > file done this afternoon and the complete file in the next day or so.

Wow! David this is awesome! Do you mind if I upload this text file to the speedcubing.com server and link to it from my site? I could definitely get some use out of this personally, but I'd also like to provide it as a helpful practice resource on my site. Thanks for the work you put into this! I for one will get a lot of use out of these algs. Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, David Barr <david20708@g...> wrote: > I've put the 7776 ZB scrambling algorithms in > http://puzzlingaddiction.com/Cube/zb-scramble.zip > > On 9/23/05, David Barr <david20708@g...> wrote: > > I'm working on a couple files right now. The first will have > > scrambling algs for all last layer cases (62208). The other will have > > scrambling algs for all last layer ZB cases (7776 cases). Hopefully > > someone will be able to use the files in a web based scrambling > > program. If not, I'll finish that part, too. I hope to have the ZB > > file done this afternoon and the complete file in the next day or so.

Hey everyone, I have a question about the David Allen signature finger trick. Those of you who were at the RWC2003 remember the crazy way he did (U'R) using both of his index fingers, I'm sure. Anyway one of my potential algs for my current ZBLL case uses this trigger. The alg has to potential to be a decent alg, but I would have to be fast with the David Allen (U'R) trigger, which I'm not. I know it can be made fast obviously from watching David do it. My question is, can anyone do this trick quickly, and how long did it take you to learn it comfortably? The alg that I like for this ZBLL case is [(R')2 U] R2 [(U')(U')] R' (U'R)x4 (R U2) R' I would have to do 4 itterations of the David Allen trigger. The part of the trigger around the David Allen trick is fast, and if I can make the (U'R)x4 part fast then this would be a nice alg. Anyway I'm totally new to using a finger trick like this, and am asking for help from anyone who might use that trick, or who is dextrous and that trick comes easy to you :-D Just wanted to ask, as I would like to be able to have the David Allen trick be part of my solving :-D but so far it seems like it will take a lot of work. Thanks to anyone who responds, Chris

Can anyone tell me how to solve the Homer Simpson Rubik's Cube?

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Baum" <speedrunningcuber@y...> wrote: > Hey guys, > > I'd like to start learning how to solve bigger cubes blindfolded, but > I really don't know where to start. What is a 4x4x4 BLD solve like? > Do you solve centers first, then orient/permute edges and corners? > What are some good algs to use? > > -Jason Either orient the corners or do the centres first (then do the other one). Permute the corners. If you have an odd permutation use the T move and move the edges back (or keep track of where they went). Use 3-cycles/double transpositions to permute the edges. There's no such thing as orienting the edges in a 4x4x4.

Wow, that's incredible! And to think that I would dare balk at learning the OLL cases. I had a quick question for you that came to mind when I was reading your post. When you say you know the algorithms, does that mean that you have them memorized, or that you can execute them at full speed? Because, when I set myself up to learn the PLL (which is a meager 21 cases), I found that memorizing an alg wasn't too difficult, but that recalling it and then doing it at full speed took days of practice. As a result, it actually hurt my times by quite a bit to do a 3-look last layer until every single case had come up quite a bit and I became comfortable with them. Will this be a problem for you, or do you practice each algorithm until they're at virtually full speed? I'll remember what you say when I memorize OLL, Jeremy Fleischman cmhardw <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Yay! I'm happy to finally be able to say that I know all the ZBLL algs for the T-orientation! (do R' F R B' R' F' R B from oriented LL) Dan Harris has already done this also, and I am just happy to say that I am among those who have done it :-D It took me 5 months roughly to learn all the algs. I think this could be done faster if someone had several hours a day every day to learn, but I think 72 algs in 5 months is not too bad, that works out to about 2 days per alg. 493 algs minus the 72 and the 21 for PLL makes 400 so in about 800 days I can be finished with ZBLL. That works out to about 3 years to learn it total. I've extended my goal to learn the method to 3 years now, and I'm still excited as ever about finally knowing it! My 1 look LL percentage now is 25.72% which is over 1/4!! This method is awesome! On to the U-orientation next! Chris SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I guess that makes sense about the edge orientation. So, what algs do you use to put the centers in? Also, what do you mean by double transpositions? -Jason

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, GameOfDeath2 <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > There's no such thing as > orienting the edges in a 4x4x4. Well, I can imagine a meaningful definition for this. Call an edge correctly oriented if it can be solved solely be outer layer turns. If you do this first then you can nicely treat the two groups independently, the setup moves will be easier. On the other hand, the "orienting" step will be hard, so not only do I consider the definition to be meaningful, but I also declare it as useless ;-) Cheers! Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, David Barr <david20708@g...> wrote: > > I've put the 7776 ZB scrambling algorithms in > http://puzzlingaddiction.com/Cube/zb-scramble.zip Hmm... scramble lenghts are up to 31 moves or so... would be cool to have optimal scrambles... Cheers! Stefan

Hi Chris, This may sound silly, but try R2 U R2 U2 R' U' (R U')3 R2 U2 R' Cheers, DJ --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I have a question about the David Allen signature finger trick. Those > of you who were at the RWC2003 remember the crazy way he did (U'R) > using both of his index fingers, I'm sure. > > Anyway one of my potential algs for my current ZBLL case uses this > trigger. > > The alg has to potential to be a decent alg, but I would have to be > fast with the David Allen (U'R) trigger, which I'm not. > > I know it can be made fast obviously from watching David do it. > > My question is, can anyone do this trick quickly, and how long did it > take you to learn it comfortably? > > The alg that I like for this ZBLL case is [(R')2 U] R2 [(U')(U')] R' > (U'R)x4 (R U2) R' > > I would have to do 4 itterations of the David Allen trigger. The part > of the trigger around the David Allen trick is fast, and if I can make > the (U'R)x4 part fast then this would be a nice alg. > > Anyway I'm totally new to using a finger trick like this, and am > asking for help from anyone who might use that trick, or who is > dextrous and that trick comes easy to you :-D > > Just wanted to ask, as I would like to be able to have the David Allen > trick be part of my solving :-D but so far it seems like it will take > a lot of work. > > Thanks to anyone who responds, > Chris

After a quick bit of practice, it's not too hard to get it right, even doing it Chris' way. I averaged about 3.7, after trying it around 60 times. I had more luck trying it Chris' way than the other way, but I constantly had to remind myself to not skip that last R turn. The trigger in question is tricky, but I found it's not so bad if you be gentle. Don't press too hard with your fingers. My cube is badly in need of lube (I don't think it's gotten any since the Chicago tournament), but just trying to be fluid and using quick finger movements yielded the best times. Also, I use my right index and middle fingers to click the 4 R turns. It's really more of a pulling motion than anything else. This alg is not cubes that are too tight, that's for sure. Thanks for the alg, Chris! I'm definitely going to use that one from now on. 3.7 seconds is a marked improvement from 5 or 6 between two algs. -Mike --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "d_j_salvia" <d_j_salvia@y...> wrote: > Hi Chris, > > This may sound silly, but try R2 U R2 U2 R' U' (R U')3 R2 U2 R' > > Cheers, > > DJ > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> > wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > > > I have a question about the David Allen signature finger trick. Those > > of you who were at the RWC2003 remember the crazy way he did (U'R) > > using both of his index fingers, I'm sure. > > > > Anyway one of my potential algs for my current ZBLL case uses this > > trigger. > > > > The alg has to potential to be a decent alg, but I would have to be > > fast with the David Allen (U'R) trigger, which I'm not. > > > > I know it can be made fast obviously from watching David do it. > > > > My question is, can anyone do this trick quickly, and how long did it > > take you to learn it comfortably? > > > > The alg that I like for this ZBLL case is [(R')2 U] R2 [(U')(U')] R' > > (U'R)x4 (R U2) R' > > > > I would have to do 4 itterations of the David Allen trigger. The part > > of the trigger around the David Allen trick is fast, and if I can make > > the (U'R)x4 part fast then this would be a nice alg. > > > > Anyway I'm totally new to using a finger trick like this, and am > > asking for help from anyone who might use that trick, or who is > > dextrous and that trick comes easy to you :-D > > > > Just wanted to ask, as I would like to be able to have the David Allen > > trick be part of my solving :-D but so far it seems like it will take > > a lot of work. > > > > Thanks to anyone who responds, > > Chris

Does anyone agree that 3³, 4³, and 5³ supercube categories would fun at tournaments?

with all this talk of the LL scrambler, i just noticed something. See for your self: 3x3x3 WR = 12.11 LL cases (w/o solved) = 1211 Spooky Peter Greenwood

Hrmm, did you read like 15 messages ago? http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/message/20630 ~ Bob PS - Somebody tell me--what is the actual number of algs needed to do the LL in one-look? (ie - including inverses & mirrors, but excluding U-turns)? --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, pjgat09 <no_reply@y...> wrote: > with all this talk of the LL scrambler, i just noticed something. See > for your self: > > 3x3x3 WR = 12.11 > LL cases (w/o solved) = 1211 > > Spooky > > Peter Greenwood

I can mirror pretty easily, but there is no way I can inverse. Are there actually people who can recognize an inverse position easily?? /Lars On Sep 23, 2005, at 10:30, Bob Burton wrote: > I get kind of bothered when people say there are only 1212 LL cases, > ESPECIALLY when they say there are 21 PLL cases and 57 OLLs. If you > say there are 1212 LL cases, then there are 13 PLLs and 40 OLLs. > However, since most people consider there to be 21 PLLs and 57 OLLs, > so if you use the numbers 21 and 57, please don't say there are only > 1212 LL cases. I can't invert algs "on the fly" and I especially > can't mirror and invert algs on the fly. If anybody here is one of > the people that can mirror and invert any algorithm without thinking > about it, let me know. :) > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - "The mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work unless it's open." --- Frank Zappa Lars Petrus - lars@... http://lar5.com

Hey Bob, This is just a guess, but each COLL case has 8 possible edge flips, and among those 8 flips there are 12 ways the edges can be permuted. So I would guess that each COLL case has 8*12=96 different cases instead of the ZBLL 12. So I would guess that there are 8 times as many LL algs as ZBLL algs, which would be 8*493=3944 Again there are probably lots of symmetries that I am missing, but I would assume that this can function as at least a rough estimate. Chris > PS - Somebody tell me--what is the actual number of algs needed to do > the LL in one-look? (ie - including inverses & mirrors, but excluding > U-turns)?

Hey Jaap, Wow that's really interesting! I find it particularly cool that the number of moves to solve the centers is the same as the number (or at least close) of moves to solve the 3x3x3. It definitely takes me more moves to solve the centers than at worst 22, but I like your idea of breaking up the first two opposite centers to solve the other 4 more efficiently, maybe a r2 or l2 move when the first two centers are on U and D or something. Anyway I want to try to figure out my average number of moves and see how it compares. Thanks Jaap, this analysis is really cool. Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, _jaap <no_reply@y...> wrote: > --- cmhardw wrote: > > I was wondering how can I go about doing the same type of analysis > > for solving the first two opposite centers of a 4x4x4? > > I'd like to know the maximum number of moves it takes to solve two > > opposite centers (I don't care about any other pieces), and also > > maybe an average # too. > > I have run it through my own solver, and here are the results. > > First of all, solving 2 particular opposite colours on the 4x4x4 > cube, and placing them on any 2 opposite faces. > > depth 0, positions 6, total 6 > depth 1, positions 36, total 42 > depth 2, positions 624, total 666 > depth 3, positions 10290, total 10956 > depth 4, positions 136338, total 147294 > depth 5, positions 1362756, total 1510050 > depth 6, positions 9517212, total 11027262 > depth 7, positions 28400748, total 39428010 > depth 8, positions 12030624, total 51458634 > depth 9, positions 24336, total 51482970 > > Note that there are 6 solutions to this problem since there are 6 > faces where the first colour is allowed to end up (the second colour > must then end up on the opposite face). > The above assumes that you have two particular colours you want to > solve first. You may be able to shave a few moves off on average if > you can choose a different pair of colours when one pair is too > difficult. > BTW, I am using single slice q+h metric. > > > Suppose that 2 opposite centres are solved. Without disturbing these > you can solve the other 4 centres. The results are: > > depth 0, positions 4, total 4 > depth 1, positions 12, total 16 > depth 2, positions 144, total 160 > depth 3, positions 1044, total 1204 > depth 4, positions 6476, total 7680 > depth 5, positions 44320, total 52000 > depth 6, positions 253624, total 305624 > depth 7, positions 1372656, total 1678280 > depth 8, positions 6066480, total 7744760 > depth 9, positions 18121248, total 25866008 > depth 10, positions 26745272, total 52611280 > depth 11, positions 10149368, total 62760648 > depth 12, positions 302288, total 63062936 > depth 13, positions 64, total 63063000 > > Note that this time there are 4 solutions, depending on which colour > you have on the front. It may in some cases be possible to shorten a > solution by temporarily disturbing the two already solved centres. > > Put together, the above shows that the centres of a 4x4x4 can always > be solved in at most 22 moves. > > Jaap

It's just a big clunky 2x2. there are probably a site or two out there on just algorithms for the 2x2; if not, there are a large number of sites devoted to the 3x3 and you can use those algs and just ignore the movement of the edge pieces. personally, I do Homer's top half first because the hair lines and nose are pretty easy to line up. --Kirk --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "mrallen30" <mrallen30@y...> wrote: > Can anyone tell me how to solve the Homer Simpson Rubik's Cube?

Hey Jeremy, I'm at varying levels of comfort for each alg. The first COLL case I learned, all 12 of those algs I can execute and recognize at full speed. I can also mostly execute and recognize the 2nd COLL case I learned at full speed. For the 3rd and 4th I'd say for 2/3 of them I am completely comfortable and the other 1/3 I pause. For the 5th case maybe 1/2 of them are full speed and the others still some delays. For my most recent COLL case only about 1/3 are full speed and the others have delays. I still have a bit of work for the last 4 cases, but I would only delay by 2-3 seconds on a solve if one of those cases come up. I have all the triggers memorized for going full speed, but the recognition is the part that kills me. I actually practice the algs for each COLL case to make sure I can trigger them full speed once I do recognize, but recognition is my biggest problem. As far as learning lots of algs, I'm thinking about posting something on my site soon about what I do. Basically the more categories you can put the algs into, the easier it is to learn them. For recognizing a ZBLL alg I have three steps 1)orientation case 2) COLL case 3) edges case. You can do this as COLL case, then edges instead, but I prefer to break it up even more. That way I have 8 groups (8 orientation cases) to start with. After I identify that I have 6 COLL cases (or 4 for one of the orientaitons, or all 21 PLL algs for oriented corners). After the 6 COLL cases I have 12 edge cases. So I don't have to make a lot of decisions to recognize. My first choice is 1 out of 8 possibilities. The next is 1 out of 6 (or 1 out of 4 or 1 out of 21). The last choice is 1 out of 12 except for PLL cases. If I chose to look at COLL cases then it would be 1 out of 41, then either 1 out of 12 or 1 out of 21. I think the COLL then edges will be faster once I have had more practice, but for now I find the more categories I break things up into, the easier it is to memorize. For the OLLs I would suggest breaking them into lots of subcategories. For example 1) no edges oriented 2) two adjancent edges corretly oriented 3) two opposite edges correctly oriented 4) all edges oriented So instead of 57 algs you have 4 groups, each of which contains varying numbers of algs. Again from what I've seen in general, the more categories you split things into the easier it is to recognize them. Don't go overboard and call each alg it's own categor obviously, but try to make several substeps and small groups. Just my $0.02 Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Jeremy Fleischman <jeremyfleischman@s...> wrote: > Wow, that's incredible! And to think that I would dare balk at learning the OLL cases. I had a quick question for you that came to mind when I was reading your post. When you say you know the algorithms, does that mean that you have them memorized, or that you can execute them at full speed? Because, when I set myself up to learn the PLL (which is a meager 21 cases), I found that memorizing an alg wasn't too difficult, but that recalling it and then doing it at full speed took days of practice. As a result, it actually hurt my times by quite a bit to do a 3-look last layer until every single case had come up quite a bit and I became comfortable with them. > Will this be a problem for you, or do you practice each algorithm until they're at virtually full speed? > > I'll remember what you say when I memorize OLL, > Jeremy Fleischman

Hey David, I like that alg, I haven't timed it yet but I am still working on getting my hands used to it to try. I do the (R U')x3 as (R U' R) (U') (R U' R2) bringing the R2 afterward into the (R U')x3 trigger a little bit. I think that way could be very fast, I'm going to try to work on both and see which way I like. I've managed to get the David Allen way down to abut 3.4x seconds as a personal fastest, but I still average a lot slower than that. I still have problems with the David Allen trigger. Thanks for the alg, if I can get that version to be faster than the David Allen way, then of course I'd rather use the faster alg. Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "d_j_salvia" <d_j_salvia@y...> wrote: > Hi Chris, > > This may sound silly, but try R2 U R2 U2 R' U' (R U')3 R2 U2 R' > > Cheers, > > DJ

Hey again David, I just spent some time working with this alg done both ways, both with the David Allen trigger and with your suggestion of (RU')x3 instead. So far I think both algs are very, very good - much better than some of the ZBLL algs I use for some cases. What I usually use to evaluate which alg I will choose is how fast I feel that I have to go to get a good time, and which one have I done faster. So far my fastest with the David Allen way is 2.90 seconds, with my second fastest at 2.91 With the (RU')x3 my fastest is 2.98 with my second fastest somewhere between 3.00 and 3.10. I feel that I have to go pretty fast for the (RU')x3 alg to get a good solve, but for the David Allen trigger way I only feel that I have to go smoothly (though still at a really strong pace) to get a good time. So anyway I think both algs are good, but I will honestly probably end up sticking with the David Allen way, both because it fits my hands a bit better (it feels smoother to me) and also because I don't know how to do the David Allen trigger very well yet, and this is as good of an excuse as any to learn. In short I think both ways of executing are very good, probably about the same depending on which feels better to your hands. Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Hey David, > > I like that alg, I haven't timed it yet but I am still working on > getting my hands used to it to try. > > I do the (R U')x3 as (R U' R) (U') (R U' R2) bringing the R2 afterward > into the (R U')x3 trigger a little bit. > > I think that way could be very fast, I'm going to try to work on both > and see which way I like. > > I've managed to get the David Allen way down to abut 3.4x seconds as a > personal fastest, but I still average a lot slower than that. I still > have problems with the David Allen trigger. > > Thanks for the alg, if I can get that version to be faster than the > David Allen way, then of course I'd rather use the faster alg. > > Chris > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "d_j_salvia" > <d_j_salvia@y...> wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > > > This may sound silly, but try R2 U R2 U2 R' U' (R U')3 R2 U2 R' > > > > Cheers, > > > > DJ

Lets have a voting on this. I vote for asia. prefrerably india. Maybe in bombay :) Sachin. On 9/23/05, Mike Bennett <mikebennett_one@...> wrote: > But if it's in Europe, I can get some more Kinder Shokolade. ;) > > -Mike > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> > wrote: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "mahtianssi" > > <mahtianssi@y...> wrote: > > > > > P.S. Next WC must be in Europe. > > > > I'd prefer Asia, Australia, or South America. I've never been to > > those continents. :) Antarctica doesn't have any possible venues, > right? > > > > ~ Bob > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Basically the same way as you would solve a Rubiks Pocket Cube. ----- Original Message ----- From: mrallen30 To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 6:25 PM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Homer Simpson Rubik's Cube Can anyone tell me how to solve the Homer Simpson Rubik's Cube? SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi friends, It is with great pleasure that I announce that we have a new WCA board member: Mr. Masayuki Akimoto from Japan. Masayuki is the reigning world champion for 4x4x4 and 5x5x5. He was responsible for two Asian competitions (Kyoto and Tokyo) and has plans for more in the future. He has a very informative website and is always working hard to make our hobby more fun with his ideas and initiatives. There were two people who wrote a recommendation letter for Masayuki. Currently the WCA board consists of 4 members: Tyson Mao (co-founder), Americas Ron van Bruchem (co-founder), Europe Gilles Roux, Europe Masayuki Akimoto, Asia We are looking forward to 2006, with more competitions in more places and more competitors. One of our other goals for 2006 is to finalise the establishment of WCA. After that we are ready for elections for a new board. If anyone has plans for a competition, please let us know, because we may be able to help you. Especially if you are in a country where there hasn't been a competition before. You could start with an informal small competition, just to see how it works. If you want to start a national organisation in your country, then also let us know. Currently we have 3 national organisations within WCA: in Japan, Poland and Sweden. Keep on cubing, Ron

Yeah, I agree. Optimal scrambles would be cool. Maybe someone with the computing resources to do so could feed these files into an optimal solver. I could even provide the cases in the format that Mike Reid's solver uses if that would help. The file with all 62208 last layer scrambling algs is ready: http://puzzlingaddiction.com/Cube/ll-scramble.zip On 9/23/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, David Barr > <david20708@g...> wrote: > > > > I've put the 7776 ZB scrambling algorithms in > > http://puzzlingaddiction.com/Cube/zb-scramble.zip > > Hmm... scramble lenghts are up to 31 moves or so... would be cool to > have optimal scrambles... > > Cheers! > Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Lars Petrus <lars@n...> wrote: > > The new iPod Nano has has a stop watch function that is ideal for > cubing. Does it have something to do with this picture I just found? http://gallery.ipodlounge.com/albums/asia_and_pacific/ipods_world1745. jpg Stefan

... most complete idiot involved in a Rubik's puzzle moves from the person responsible for filling the springs of game cubes with glue to the person responsible for the centers of the Rubik's World puzzle. Has anyone tried to open those? It's the most stupid construction I've ever seen. I even wish they had just glued the caps on (and I'm the first person who'll shout glue is evil). And it's on purpose (the glue-filled springs might've been just a stupid accident). And I just broke my best blade and almost hurt myself badly. Don't know whether I'm more angry or more disappointed... these people obviously didn't have any love or respect for their own products! Stefan

mm...Sorry Bob, I think I'll just stop confusing people AND myself with counting the solved cases. I'll never say 1212 alg for the LL anymore, I promise. :p 2005/9/23, Bob Burton <bob@...>: > I get kind of bothered when people say there are only 1212 LL cases, > ESPECIALLY when they say there are 21 PLL cases and 57 OLLs. If you > say there are 1212 LL cases, then there are 13 PLLs and 40 OLLs. > However, since most people consider there to be 21 PLLs and 57 OLLs, > so if you use the numbers 21 and 57, please don't say there are only > 1212 LL cases. I can't invert algs "on the fly" and I especially > can't mirror and invert algs on the fly. If anybody here is one of > the people that can mirror and invert any algorithm without thinking > about it, let me know. :) > > ~ Bob > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den > > Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > > > > > > 1. LL in 1 step : 1212 cases > > > > Actually there should be (4! * 3^4) * (4! * 2^4) / 12 = 62208 cases. > > And they all have the same probability so you don't need to care about > > that. > > > > Cheers! > > Stefan > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

:D --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > mm...Sorry Bob, I think I'll just stop confusing people AND myself > with counting the solved cases. > I'll never say 1212 alg for the LL anymore, I promise. :p > > 2005/9/23, Bob Burton <bob@c...>: > > I get kind of bothered when people say there are only 1212 LL cases, > > ESPECIALLY when they say there are 21 PLL cases and 57 OLLs. If you > > say there are 1212 LL cases, then there are 13 PLLs and 40 OLLs. > > However, since most people consider there to be 21 PLLs and 57 OLLs, > > so if you use the numbers 21 and 57, please don't say there are only > > 1212 LL cases. I can't invert algs "on the fly" and I especially > > can't mirror and invert algs on the fly. If anybody here is one of > > the people that can mirror and invert any algorithm without thinking > > about it, let me know. :) > > > > ~ Bob > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" > > <pochmann@g...> wrote: > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den > > > Peereboom <gillesvdp@g...> wrote: > > > > > > > > 1. LL in 1 step : 1212 cases > > > > > > Actually there should be (4! * 3^4) * (4! * 2^4) / 12 = 62208 cases. > > > And they all have the same probability so you don't need to care about > > > that. > > > > > > Cheers! > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

hola si alguien de lo que estan aqui habla español por favor expliqueme como puedo usar el jnetcube entre dos personas no se cual es el server port que hay que poner por favor ayudenme

I would definitely be interested in this, not only for myself but I really am trying to make my site have practice options available too. So far I can only provide pages with tips about how I practice, but I think this scramble program would be cool. I can talk to Ron too about using webspace on speedcubing.com. I would really like to promote the ZB method, and if I can help out in any way let me know. Send me an e-mail and we can talk more - chris _at_ speedcubing dot com I'll talk to Ron in the meantime and see if we can work something out. If Dan can do it that would be totally awesome too. I would just like something like this to be available, no matter how it gets done. If there is anything I can do to help out please let me know. and thanks again! This scrambler I think will help a lot! I do have one suggestion, would there be a way to organize the algs by 1) OLL case and 2) even further by COLL case? I know this is more work, but again I can try to help out if there is something I can do. It would be nice to be able to focus the scrambler only on certain COLL cases, or even on just one OLL case (this I think would be the most important feature). Just some suggestions, but already this scrambling program is awesome! I think it is a very good practice tool for ZBLL already! Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "c_w_tsai" <c_w_tsai@y...> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > for a scrambler: > > try: > http://ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php?scrtype=zbll > for a zbll scramble (using David's file, but only first 4000 cases > since there's limit on file sizes since I'm using a free account) > I've also changed F1, F3 etc. to the more common F and F' > > try > http://ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php > for a random scrambler > > also you can choose the number of scrambles > http://ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php?scrtype=zbll&num=4 > > or length of scrambles (for random scrambles) > http://ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php?length=15 > > default num is 10 > default scrtype is random > default length is 25 > > This script uses Josef's excellent cube applet :) > > If anyone is interested in using the full zbll set, I can ask Dan > Harris (or someone else) to host the script instead > > cheers

Hola, Manuel! el server port puede ser cualquier uno que desejes. La otra persona deve poner lo mismo port y su número de ip. Si no lo sabes, puedes descobri-lo acá: www.whatismyip.com. Pedro manuel luis de jesus del carmen <dr_molecula@...> escreveu: hola si alguien de lo que estan aqui habla español por favor expliqueme como puedo usar el jnetcube entre dos personas no se cual es el server port que hay que poner por favor ayudenme --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Novo Yahoo! Messenger com voz: ligações, Yahoo! Avatars, novos emoticons e muito mais. Instale agora! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I wanted to run a couple of ideas by you guys. > > 1. Instead of allowing competitors to choose the U-color and F- color, > three colors (A, B, and C) are drawn randomly at the beginning of each > competition. The cubes are then scrambled with A as the U-face and B > as the F-face. If B is not possible as the F-face, it is substituted > with C. Doing this will save time for the scramblers, and make it > easier for us to keep track. There's no "someone's getting shafted" > because it's random and you have no way of knowing beforehand and thus it's equal. I'm a couple of days behind, so I'm just getting to this now. But, it seems to me that this may cause an unfair advantage to some competitors because the starting position will vary depending on what color you prefer on top. If all scrambles for a competition are to be done with white on top, for example, a scramble may create an extremely easy cross on the yellow face, but a difficult one on the orange face. So, obviously, someone who prefers to solve the cross on the yellow face will have the advantage. The current system provides the same cross setup to each competitor regardless of color preference and seems to me to be more fair. Duane PS - I solve with red on top.

Hi Chris, you're getting very close but the exact number is 3916 including the solved case. The way I used to caculate this figure is as follows: There are 58 OLL cases in total including the solved case. - 2 of them are completely symmetric (the solved case and the one with 4 edges flipped), meaning that they look the same from all 4 angles. For these cases 22 permutations are possible; which is the number of PLL's including the trivial case. - 5 of them are half symmetric, meaning that you can turn them 180° and get the same orientation. A good example is what I call the H permutation (all edges oriented, corners are +-+-). For those cases 40 permutations are possible. - the 51 remaining don't have any symmetry, meaning that they look different fro, all 4 angles. For those cases you need to know all 72 possible permutations (6 possibilities for the corners x 12 possibilities for the edges). If you add this all up, you get: 2 *22= 44 5 *40= 200 72*51=3672 __________ 3916 I'm not saying that this is the most elegant way of doing it, but it might still be useful. Lars --- In, speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Hey Bob, > > This is just a guess, but each COLL case has 8 possible edge flips, > and among those 8 flips there are 12 ways the edges can be permuted. > > So I would guess that each COLL case has 8*12=96 different cases > instead of the ZBLL 12. > > So I would guess that there are 8 times as many LL algs as ZBLL algs, > which would be 8*493=3944 > > Again there are probably lots of symmetries that I am missing, but I > would assume that this can function as at least a rough estimate. > > Chris > > > PS - Somebody tell me--what is the actual number of algs needed to do > > the LL in one-look? (ie - including inverses & mirrors, but excluding > > U-turns)?

I might also add that this method is also "backwards compatible" with ZBLL, because then you only use the 8 orientations with all edges oriented. One of the is symmetric (the solved orientation), one is half symmetric (the H orientation), and the remaing six don' have symmetry. You add it all up: 1*22= 22 1*40= 40 6*72=432 ________ 494 cases including the solved case. Lars --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Lars Vandenbergh" <lars.vandenbergh@t...> wrote: > Hi Chris, > > you're getting very close but the exact number is 3916 including the solved case. The way > I used to caculate this figure is as follows: > > There are 58 OLL cases in total including the solved case. > - 2 of them are completely symmetric (the solved case and the one with 4 edges flipped), > meaning that they look the same from all 4 angles. For these cases 22 permutations are > possible; which is the number of PLL's including the trivial case. > - 5 of them are half symmetric, meaning that you can turn them 180° and get the same > orientation. A good example is what I call the H permutation (all edges oriented, corners > are +-+-). For those cases 40 permutations are possible. > - the 51 remaining don't have any symmetry, meaning that they look different fro, all 4 > angles. For those cases you need to know all 72 possible permutations (6 possibilities for > the corners x 12 possibilities for the edges). > > If you add this all up, you get: > > 2 *22= 44 > 5 *40= 200 > 72*51=3672 > __________ > 3916 > > I'm not saying that this is the most elegant way of doing it, but it might still be useful. > > Lars > > > --- In, speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > > Hey Bob, > > > > This is just a guess, but each COLL case has 8 possible edge flips, > > and among those 8 flips there are 12 ways the edges can be permuted. > > > > So I would guess that each COLL case has 8*12=96 different cases > > instead of the ZBLL 12. > > > > So I would guess that there are 8 times as many LL algs as ZBLL algs, > > which would be 8*493=3944 > > > > Again there are probably lots of symmetries that I am missing, but I > > would assume that this can function as at least a rough estimate. > > > > Chris > > > > > PS - Somebody tell me--what is the actual number of algs needed to do > > > the LL in one-look? (ie - including inverses & mirrors, but excluding > > > U-turns)?

Hi! I don't think all that many people would be interested. And in all cases we would have to come up with acceptable design that could be recognized for official world records and so on. I'm afraid that many would would for the Stefan Pochmann design which i really dislike. That design really makes it harder to find the centers you want. Oh well, maybe im negative ?? Cheers! -Per PS! We could always have informal supercubing if time allows, but program is usually jampacked. > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "skeneegee" <skeneegee@h...> wrote: > Does anyone agree that 3³, 4³, and 5³ supercube categories would fun > at tournaments?

Why would it have to be a uniform design for all cubes? As long as you had a design that specifically associates a specific position for every piece, it would be acceptable, right? As long as there was only one possible solution state, why couldn't this differ between competitors? I see it along the same lines as having a different color scheme (although I do not think having supercubes in competitions is a good idea anyway). :) ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > Hi! > > I don't think all that many people would be interested. And in all > cases we would have to come up with acceptable design that could be > recognized for official world records and so on. I'm afraid that many > would would for the Stefan Pochmann design which i really dislike. > That design really makes it harder to find the centers you want. Oh > well, maybe im negative ?? > > Cheers! > > -Per > > PS! We could always have informal supercubing if time allows, but > program is usually jampacked. > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "skeneegee" > <skeneegee@h...> wrote: > > Does anyone agree that 3³, 4³, and 5³ supercube categories would fun > > at tournaments?

Yes, but the scramble shouldn't care about how the cube is solved. Every person may solve the cube a different way, or everyone may solve it the same way. The point would be that every person gets the same scrambled cube, with the same colors, and the winner is the person who can solve THAT cube the fastest. If everyone has the cube scrambled to their desired color scheme, then everyone isn't solving the same cube. This will give some Fridrich solvers an advantage if the cross happens to favor their color, but everyone is just as likely to have an easier cross as they are to have a more difficult cross. It's up to the cuber to decide how he./she will solve the puzzle, not the scrambler. Everyone gets the same cube and everyone solves it as fast as they can. Makes sense to me. This would be a lot easier for the scramblers, and it actually seems more 'fair' than the existing method. -Chris On 9/24/05, kaptnkavman <dmcall9@...> wrote: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > > > I wanted to run a couple of ideas by you guys. > > > > 1. Instead of allowing competitors to choose the U-color and F- > color, > > three colors (A, B, and C) are drawn randomly at the beginning of > each > > competition. The cubes are then scrambled with A as the U-face and > B > > as the F-face. If B is not possible as the F-face, it is > substituted > > with C. Doing this will save time for the scramblers, and make it > > easier for us to keep track. There's no "someone's getting > shafted" > > because it's random and you have no way of knowing beforehand and > thus it's equal. > > I'm a couple of days behind, so I'm just getting to this now. But, it > seems to me that this may cause an unfair advantage to some > competitors because the starting position will vary depending on what > color you prefer on top. If all scrambles for a competition are to be > done with white on top, for example, a scramble may create an > extremely easy cross on the yellow face, but a difficult one on the > orange face. So, obviously, someone who prefers to solve the cross on > the yellow face will have the advantage. > The current system provides the same cross setup to each competitor > regardless of color preference and seems to me to be more fair. > > Duane > > PS - I solve with red on top. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "kaptnkavman" <dmcall9@m...> wrote: > > I'm a couple of days behind, so I'm just getting to this now. But, it > seems to me that this may cause an unfair advantage to some > competitors because the starting position will vary depending on what > color you prefer on top. I have no idea why you think this is unfair. Please explain. It would be unfair if the organizer purposely gave me a scramble that for some reason he knows is "hard" for me and gave you a scramble that he knows is "easy" for you. But if we're all treated equal... Why do you only fear that someone else might have a "lucky" advantage over you? With the same probability, *you* will have the same advantage! Everybody has the same chances of getting "lucky". Do you think telling the scrambler how to hold the cube has any influence on fairness? Do you also believe that you can gain an advantage by being clever and telling them the "best" way to hold the cube? Cheers! Stefan

I think I have to agree with Chris here but not everyone uses the same color scheme. I really don't care which color they put up when they scramble my cubes but since I had to choose, I picked Green up. I think the competitor should only be able to pick the U color for scrambles. anyway... my 2¢ PS -hurry now and order your custom logo sticker from cubesmith.com so you can have your cube personalized before Orlando. The ones he made for me came out perfectly! --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hunt <huntca@g...> wrote: > Yes, but the scramble shouldn't care about how the cube is solved. Every > person may solve the cube a different way, or everyone may solve it the same > way. The point would be that every person gets the same scrambled cube, with > the same colors, and the winner is the person who can solve THAT cube the > fastest. If everyone has the cube scrambled to their desired color scheme, > then everyone isn't solving the same cube. This will give some Fridrich > solvers an advantage if the cross happens to favor their color, but everyone > is just as likely to have an easier cross as they are to have a more > difficult cross. It's up to the cuber to decide how he./she will solve the > puzzle, not the scrambler. Everyone gets the same cube and everyone solves > it as fast as they can. Makes sense to me. This would be a lot easier for > the scramblers, and it actually seems more 'fair' than the existing method. > > -Chris > > On 9/24/05, kaptnkavman <dmcall9@m...> wrote: > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > > wrote: > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > > > I wanted to run a couple of ideas by you guys. > > > > > > 1. Instead of allowing competitors to choose the U-color and F- > > color, > > > three colors (A, B, and C) are drawn randomly at the beginning of > > each > > > competition. The cubes are then scrambled with A as the U-face and > > B > > > as the F-face. If B is not possible as the F-face, it is > > substituted > > > with C. Doing this will save time for the scramblers, and make it > > > easier for us to keep track. There's no "someone's getting > > shafted" > > > because it's random and you have no way of knowing beforehand and > > thus it's equal. > > > > I'm a couple of days behind, so I'm just getting to this now. But, it > > seems to me that this may cause an unfair advantage to some > > competitors because the starting position will vary depending on what > > color you prefer on top. If all scrambles for a competition are to be > > done with white on top, for example, a scramble may create an > > extremely easy cross on the yellow face, but a difficult one on the > > orange face. So, obviously, someone who prefers to solve the cross on > > the yellow face will have the advantage. > > The current system provides the same cross setup to each competitor > > regardless of color preference and seems to me to be more fair. > > > > Duane > > > > PS - I solve with red on top. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

(see below) Chris Hunt <huntca@...> escreveu: Yes, but the scramble shouldn't care about how the cube is solved. Every person may solve the cube a different way, or everyone may solve it the same way. The point would be that every person gets the same scrambled cube, with the same colors, and the winner is the person who can solve THAT cube the fastest. >I agree with Chris. The winner is who can solve the same scramble of the others, but in a shortest time. If everyone has the cube scrambled to their desired color scheme, then everyone isn't solving the same cube. This will give some Fridrich solvers an advantage if the cross happens to favor their color, but everyone is just as likely to have an easier cross as they are to have a more difficult cross. It's up to the cuber to decide how he./she will solve the puzzle, not the scrambler. Everyone gets the same cube and everyone solves it as fast as they can. Makes sense to me. This would be a lot easier for the scramblers, and it actually seems more 'fair' than the existing method. -Chris On 9/24/05, kaptnkavman <dmcall9@...> wrote: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> > wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > > > I wanted to run a couple of ideas by you guys. > > > > 1. Instead of allowing competitors to choose the U-color and F- > color, > > three colors (A, B, and C) are drawn randomly at the beginning of > each > > competition. The cubes are then scrambled with A as the U-face and > B > > as the F-face. If B is not possible as the F-face, it is > substituted > > with C. Doing this will save time for the scramblers, and make it > > easier for us to keep track. There's no "someone's getting > shafted" > > because it's random and you have no way of knowing beforehand and > thus it's equal. > > I'm a couple of days behind, so I'm just getting to this now. But, it > seems to me that this may cause an unfair advantage to some > competitors because the starting position will vary depending on what > color you prefer on top. If all scrambles for a competition are to be > done with white on top, for example, a scramble may create an > extremely easy cross on the yellow face, but a difficult one on the > orange face. So, obviously, someone who prefers to solve the cross on > the yellow face will have the advantage. > The current system provides the same cross setup to each competitor > regardless of color preference and seems to me to be more fair. > > Duane > > PS - I solve with red on top. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8537531530575069384

I'm incredibly pleased to hear cubesmith.com is going to start printing custom logos for people. However, some of us are a tad strapped for cash or want something a little complicated. My girlfriend and I took it upon ourselves to carve her out a logo on her white side. It then stuck me that it wouldn't be competition friendly, because the white center would have a recognizable texture. My question, because it turned out incredibly cool, is whether or not it's ok to do this, provided it's the same on each side. If we could mark each center piece the same, not only would the marks be trivial, it would also look rather nifty. Because, if it is, I've got some more 'artwork' to get started on. -Mike Bennett

Thanks everyone for the kind words. Jason, and anyone else interested in ZB, I think that's awesome! I hope you decide to learn it and I hope you enjoy it. The method is really fun to use, and so far my average average with ZB is pretty much the same as for Fridrich. It feels really cool to get a ZB solve, but then again noone knows if the recognition will be too much in the long run. I think the method will be a good method, but I no longer make any claims about comparing it to Fridrich since I really don't know how it will compare. I just really enjoy this method, and that's why I'm learning it. If you do start learning ZB and it just feels like work and you don't enjoy it, then I don't recommend sticking with it. The method seems intimidating at first, I definitely thought so. But even after a full orientation case now I really don't feel like it is hard to keep track of all the algs. I honestly feel right now that with 3 years of work ZBLL could be totally managable. Will it be faster? Who knows but I think it will be fun. Even if I never use ZB in competition again, and just only for fun I still think it would be cool to know. Basically I don't think ZB is a necessary extension from Fridrich. I mean I don't think it's F2L -> PLL -> OLL -> COLL -> ZB, I think it's just another method to learn if you want. As far as learning all the algs, it really isn't that bad so far. They are categorized into so many smaller groups and learning a group of 12 algs really doesn't take all that long. So I get to celebrate every 12 algs that I've accomplished a subgoal. Anyway if anyone who is interested decides to learn it I think that would be cool, and I'd be more than willing to provide any tips or whatever. Just remember, it's just another method, noone knows if it will be any sort of "super" method. I think that will depend on the person learning it, and not on the method. Chris P.S. I did another 100 cube average counting moves instead of the time. I'm still working on getting the page up, but out of 100 solves I got 26 ZBLL solves and the average number of moves for a ZB solve was 45.43 moves. So even if the recognition for ZBLL takes a long time, I think the overall move count will at least balance that out. Anyway I'll provide a link to the stats when I'm finished with the page. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Baum" <speedrunningcuber@y...> wrote: > Congrats, Chris! I really admire your dedication to learning the ZB > method. I'm actually thinking about learning ZB after the world > champs, but I'm really intimidated by it. I just can't imagine > knowing as many algs as you know, and you've still got a few hundred > to go. ;) > > Keep up the good work! > > -Jason

ahh... my spanish sucks... all i can read is the title :( On 9/24/05, Pedro <pedrosino1@...> wrote: > Hola, Manuel! > el server port puede ser cualquier uno que desejes. La otra persona deve poner lo mismo port y su número de ip. Si no lo sabes, puedes descobri-lo acá: www.whatismyip.com. > > Pedro > > manuel luis de jesus del carmen <dr_molecula@...> escreveu: > hola si alguien de lo que estan aqui habla español por favor > expliqueme como puedo usar el jnetcube entre dos personas no se cual > es el server port que hay que poner por favor ayudenme > > > > > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > --------------------------------- > Novo Yahoo! Messenger com voz: ligações, Yahoo! Avatars, novos emoticons e muito mais. Instale agora! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

That zbll scrambler is very nice. That will help zbll learners I think. :-) Although I'm more interested in a full LL scrambler, so I'll continue my scrambler. (I think too that the possibility to choose the OLL on the zbll scrambler would be good) 2005/9/24, cmhardw <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>: > I would definitely be interested in this, not only for myself but I > really am trying to make my site have practice options available too. > > So far I can only provide pages with tips about how I practice, but I > think this scramble program would be cool. I can talk to Ron too > about using webspace on speedcubing.com. > > I would really like to promote the ZB method, and if I can help out in > any way let me know. Send me an e-mail and we can talk more - chris > _at_ speedcubing dot com > > I'll talk to Ron in the meantime and see if we can work something out. > If Dan can do it that would be totally awesome too. I would just > like something like this to be available, no matter how it gets done. > > If there is anything I can do to help out please let me know. > > and thanks again! This scrambler I think will help a lot! > > I do have one suggestion, would there be a way to organize the algs by > 1) OLL case and 2) even further by COLL case? > > I know this is more work, but again I can try to help out if there is > something I can do. > > It would be nice to be able to focus the scrambler only on certain > COLL cases, or even on just one OLL case (this I think would be the > most important feature). > > Just some suggestions, but already this scrambling program is awesome! > I think it is a very good practice tool for ZBLL already! > > Chris > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@...m, "c_w_tsai" > <c_w_tsai@y...> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > for a scrambler: > > > > try: > > http://ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php?scrtype=zbll > > for a zbll scramble (using David's file, but only first 4000 cases > > since there's limit on file sizes since I'm using a free account) > > I've also changed F1, F3 etc. to the more common F and F' > > > > try > > http://ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php > > for a random scrambler > > > > also you can choose the number of scrambles > > http://ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php?scrtype=zbll&num=4 > > > > or length of scrambles (for random scrambles) > > http://ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php?length=15 > > > > default num is 10 > > default scrtype is random > > default length is 25 > > > > This script uses Josef's excellent cube applet :) > > > > If anyone is interested in using the full zbll set, I can ask Dan > > Harris (or someone else) to host the script instead > > > > cheers > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Am I only cuber who is not going to Orlando in November?

What is the recommended or most usual grip for the Petrus F2L. Is there a fixed grip for the hole F2L or does it change each step? I change my grip all the time and I believe this lack of discipline is seriously holding me back. Cheers, Marco [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think Jess Bonde isn't coming... something about gun laws On 9/25/05, mahtianssi <mahtianssi@...> wrote: > Am I only cuber who is not going to Orlando in November? > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

sadly not - me neither :( Pressure of family. ----- Original Message ----- From: "mahtianssi" <mahtianssi@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 2:28 PM Subject: [Speed cubing group] question > Am I only cuber who is not going to Orlando in November? > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "mahtianssi" <mahtianssi@y...> wrote: > Am I only cuber who is not going to Orlando in November? Hehe.. I know lot's more :)....

I think Dan Harris isn't coming either :-( Unless he has backup plans ;-) -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@g...> wrote: > I think Jess Bonde isn't coming... something about gun laws > > On 9/25/05, mahtianssi <mahtianssi@y...> wrote: > > Am I only cuber who is not going to Orlando in November? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -cubekid

I recently switched from Petrus to Xcross, and I learned to keep my LL up for the entire F2L. When I Petrused, I would wander about the cube getting disoriented. Now I keep F2L down until I start LL algs which really seemed to help keep me from getting lost. I don't see why it wouldn't work very well for the Petrus method also. You can try Dw (2 layer D turn) to move the slots if it works for you. good luck! --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Marco Garbelini <garbelini@g...> wrote: > What is the recommended or most usual grip for the Petrus F2L. Is there a > fixed grip for the hole F2L or does it change each step? > I change my grip all the time and I believe this lack of discipline is > seriously holding me back. > > Cheers, > Marco > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Could you perhaps do your artwork on a non-competition cube? Tyson Mao MSC #631 California Institute of Technology On Sep 24, 2005, at 8:48 PM, Mike Bennett wrote: > I'm incredibly pleased to hear cubesmith.com is going to start > printing custom logos for people. However, some of us are a tad > strapped for cash or want something a little complicated. My > girlfriend and I took it upon ourselves to carve her out a logo on her > white side. It then stuck me that it wouldn't be competition > friendly, because the white center would have a recognizable texture. > > My question, because it turned out incredibly cool, is whether or not > it's ok to do this, provided it's the same on each side. If we could > mark each center piece the same, not only would the marks be trivial, > it would also look rather nifty. > > Because, if it is, I've got some more 'artwork' to get started on. > > -Mike Bennett > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Last I talked to Dan he was coming...why don't you think the British are coming??? Craig --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > I think Dan Harris isn't coming either :-( > > Unless he has backup plans ;-) > > -Per > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay > <cubekid@g...> wrote: > > I think Jess Bonde isn't coming... something about gun laws > > > > On 9/25/05, mahtianssi <mahtianssi@y...> wrote: > > > Am I only cuber who is not going to Orlando in November? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -cubekid

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" <logitewty@h...> wrote: > Last I talked to Dan he was coming...why don't you think the British > are coming??? > > Craig > I'll bite! Cause no one hung a lantern in the belfry. -Daniel

Huh??? --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hayes" <swedishlf@h...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > Last I talked to Dan he was coming...why don't you think the British > > are coming??? > > > > Craig > > > > > I'll bite! Cause no one hung a lantern in the belfry. > > -Daniel

Damn, in Germany eggs they don't have cool stuff like that: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6000479054 What's even more annoying is that this one sold for more than the 2cm speedcube I recently sold that took me 2-4 hours real work to prepare. .. grmbl... Stefan

Paul Revere hung lanters in the belfry of a church to signal how the British were attacking in the American Revolution. One if by land, two if by sea. Then he rode through town shouting "The British are Coming! The British are coming." So given the last line of your post I thought that's where you were going with that... I can be a little strange at times, forgive me :P -Daniel --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" <logitewty@h...> wrote: > Huh??? > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hayes" > <swedishlf@h...> wrote: > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > > Last I talked to Dan he was coming...why don't you think the British > > > are coming??? > > > > > > Craig > > > > > > > > > I'll bite! Cause no one hung a lantern in the belfry. > > > > -Daniel

Thanks for the tips, Chris. I was planning on sending you an email asking some questions about the ZB method, but you've already answered pretty much everything I was going to ask. ;) I'm feeling pretty good about learning it though. Right now I just want to finish learning COLL (8 cases left) and get comfortable with that before WC2005. After that though, it will be time to start learning ZB. I'd like to have all of ZBF2L down by the end of the school year (early May), then devote a lot of time over the summer to learning ZBLL. I'd like to have the entire method down 3 years after I start working on it, like you. -Jason --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Thanks everyone for the kind words. > > Jason, and anyone else interested in ZB, I think that's awesome! I > hope you decide to learn it and I hope you enjoy it. > > The method is really fun to use, and so far my average average with ZB > is pretty much the same as for Fridrich. > > It feels really cool to get a ZB solve, but then again noone knows if > the recognition will be too much in the long run. > > I think the method will be a good method, but I no longer make any > claims about comparing it to Fridrich since I really don't know how it > will compare. > > I just really enjoy this method, and that's why I'm learning it. If > you do start learning ZB and it just feels like work and you don't > enjoy it, then I don't recommend sticking with it. > > The method seems intimidating at first, I definitely thought so. But > even after a full orientation case now I really don't feel like it is > hard to keep track of all the algs. > > I honestly feel right now that with 3 years of work ZBLL could be > totally managable. Will it be faster? Who knows but I think it will > be fun. Even if I never use ZB in competition again, and just only > for fun I still think it would be cool to know. > > Basically I don't think ZB is a necessary extension from Fridrich. I > mean I don't think it's F2L -> PLL -> OLL -> COLL -> ZB, I think it's > just another method to learn if you want. > > As far as learning all the algs, it really isn't that bad so far. > They are categorized into so many smaller groups and learning a group > of 12 algs really doesn't take all that long. So I get to celebrate > every 12 algs that I've accomplished a subgoal. > > Anyway if anyone who is interested decides to learn it I think that > would be cool, and I'd be more than willing to provide any tips or > whatever. Just remember, it's just another method, noone knows if it > will be any sort of "super" method. I think that will depend on the > person learning it, and not on the method. > > Chris > > P.S. I did another 100 cube average counting moves instead of the > time. I'm still working on getting the page up, but out of 100 solves > I got 26 ZBLL solves and the average number of moves for a ZB solve > was 45.43 moves. So even if the recognition for ZBLL takes a long > time, I think the overall move count will at least balance that out. > Anyway I'll provide a link to the stats when I'm finished with the page. > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Baum" > <speedrunningcuber@y...> wrote: > > Congrats, Chris! I really admire your dedication to learning the ZB > > method. I'm actually thinking about learning ZB after the world > > champs, but I'm really intimidated by it. I just can't imagine > > knowing as many algs as you know, and you've still got a few hundred > > to go. ;) > > > > Keep up the good work! > > > > -Jason

You sound like the kind of guy I'd get alone with GREAT!!! Add me to MSN, or yahoo... MSN - logitewty@... Yahoo - chbouchard777 Craig --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hayes" <swedishlf@h...> wrote: > Paul Revere hung lanters in the belfry of a church to signal how the > British were attacking in the American Revolution. One if by land, > two if by sea. Then he rode through town shouting "The British are > Coming! The British are coming." So given the last line of your post > I thought that's where you were going with that... > > I can be a little strange at times, forgive me :P > > -Daniel > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > Huh??? > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hayes" > > <swedishlf@h...> wrote: > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > > > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > > > Last I talked to Dan he was coming...why don't you think the British > > > > are coming??? > > > > > > > > Craig > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll bite! Cause no one hung a lantern in the belfry. > > > > > > -Daniel

I remember a while back reading something by Chris Hardwick a while back that said if you want to be a fast cuber, you need to have an F2L in about 30 moves. I don't remember the exact number. I took an average number of my moves for F2L and it turned out to be about 48 moves. So just wondering, how much advanced F2L (i.e. open slot F2L, extended cross, other-please explain) do the fast cubers know. Or do you just do Fridrich F2L way better than me? -Ben.

Well, the average Fridrich F2L pair takes 7 moves to put in. 4 x 7 = 28 moves for an "average" F2L (not including the cross). Do you do your F2L intuitively? That might be a problem, because if you do F2L in pairs then you're either taking way too many moves to put them in or you're doing a 20 move cross. ;) I would suggest going through a list of F2L algs and comparing them do the way you would do them (if in fact you do everything intuitively). 48 moves is quite a lot for a Fridrich F2L though. As for how I do F2L, I only make extended crosses no more than 10% of my solves. I usually use open slots to minimize cube rotation. I know a few different angles for certain pairs. You don't have to solve F2L in 30 moves to be fast, though. I average 35-38 moves for my F2L and I average 18 seconds consistently. -Jason --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ben King" <grsbmd@y...> wrote: > I remember a while back reading something by Chris Hardwick a while > back that said if you want to be a fast cuber, you need to have an F2L > in about 30 moves. I don't remember the exact number. > > I took an average number of my moves for F2L and it turned out to be > about 48 moves. > > So just wondering, how much advanced F2L (i.e. open slot F2L, extended > cross, other-please explain) do the fast cubers know. > > Or do you just do Fridrich F2L way better than me? > > -Ben.

Hey Ben, To be honest I don't have any stats about my F2L number of moves, only ZBF2L which I don't think is relavent to what you're asking. Ron took a 100 cube average counting the number of moves in his solves for all the various steps a few years back and I believe the final number was about 32 moves on average (Ron please correct me if I am wrong). If I would have mentioned something about F2L and number of moves I most likely would have quoted Ron's average. I can personally try to answer your question, but I am no expert on F2L. The only tricks I really use on a frequent basis are empty slot corner and edge inserts (with one or two algs for empty slot inserts for both the corner and edge) and extended cross. In my most recent 100 cube average counting just the number of moves I did 28 extended cross solves, one of which was a double extended cross. So I would guess that I do extended cross roughly 30% of the time rather than cross, and double extended cross maybe 1% or less. As far as empty slots, anytime an edge or corner is solved in its slot and the other piece is in the LL, I would always use an empty slot alg if there is an available slot. Also, slant pairing is a very powerful tool to know. For this you have the corner of one slot solved and the edge of another slot solved. You then do a first layer turn to line up the unsolved edge from the first slot with the unsolved corner from the second slot into one "slant" F2L slot. You then solve a corner/edge pair with the edge from the first slot paired with the corner from the second. Once you do that an undo your first layer turn, you will have solved both F2L pairs at the same time. I would say that I average an empty slot case or extended cross or slant pair every solve. Meaning I would do at least one alg that is something additional to the standard 22 non-solved Fridrich F2L cases per solve. If you are shooting for 11-12 second F2L times this is what I do to get there. If you are shooting for 10 seconds or less, I have absolutely no clue how to do that and I am no help to you ;-) Anyway I hope that helps some. Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ben King" <grsbmd@y...> wrote: > I remember a while back reading something by Chris Hardwick a while > back that said if you want to be a fast cuber, you need to have an F2L > in about 30 moves. I don't remember the exact number. > > I took an average number of my moves for F2L and it turned out to be > about 48 moves. > > So just wondering, how much advanced F2L (i.e. open slot F2L, extended > cross, other-please explain) do the fast cubers know. > > Or do you just do Fridrich F2L way better than me? > > -Ben.

Hey everyone, I have a question for your programmers. Would it be hard to take an existing solver program (Ron's solver program, ACube, etc..) and manually specify the desired final state rather than have it be assumed to be the solved state? I was looking for good transformation algs from any OLL case into the "T" orientation and thought that such a solver could come in handy. My method right now is just to start from the T and do the inverse of various easy and fast moves that leave the edges oriented and when I end up at an orientation I didn't know the transformation for yet I would then know which alg I used to go from the T to that case, so I can just do the reverse. Anyway I have no idea if a program feature like that is hard to do or not, but I think it would be a cool option to have. I'm not really in dire need of a program like this, I was just curious if it would be hard to do or not. Are there any others who would be interested in such a feature, or am I just weird? ;-) Chris

Hey Chris, I know CubeExplorer has an option to select the goal state, but it doesn't have the option to ignore cubies. -Daniel --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I have a question for your programmers. Would it be hard to take an > existing solver program (Ron's solver program, ACube, etc..) and > manually specify the desired final state rather than have it be > assumed to be the solved state? > > I was looking for good transformation algs from any OLL case into the > "T" orientation and thought that such a solver could come in handy. > > My method right now is just to start from the T and do the inverse of > various easy and fast moves that leave the edges oriented and when I > end up at an orientation I didn't know the transformation for yet I > would then know which alg I used to go from the T to that case, so I > can just do the reverse. > > Anyway I have no idea if a program feature like that is hard to do or > not, but I think it would be a cool option to have. > > I'm not really in dire need of a program like this, I was just curious > if it would be hard to do or not. Are there any others who would be > interested in such a feature, or am I just weird? ;-) > > Chris

As my girlfriend is most likely not coming to the WC's, the point is somewhat moot, but I was noticing that my cube looks a tad strange without a logo. If it's really a problem, I'll leave my cube as it is, but it seems like it should be fine if all the centers are the same. I would really like to do this, if it's acceptable, but if not I'll survive without it. -Mike --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Tyson Mao <tmao@i...> wrote: > Could you perhaps do your artwork on a non-competition cube? > > Tyson Mao > MSC #631 > California Institute of Technology

At least some of the British aren't coming - meaning me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Bouchard" <logitewty@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] question > Last I talked to Dan he was coming...why don't you think the British > are coming??? > > Craig > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" > <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: >> I think Dan Harris isn't coming either :-( >> >> Unless he has backup plans ;-) >> >> -Per >> >> > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay >> <cubekid@g...> wrote: >> > I think Jess Bonde isn't coming... something about gun laws >> > >> > On 9/25/05, mahtianssi <mahtianssi@y...> wrote: >> > > Am I only cuber who is not going to Orlando in November? >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > -cubekid > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

When I do a normal F2L I do working corner with a bit of extra thought - takes me 30-35 moves which is about the same as Fridrich pairs I believe. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben King" <grsbmd@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 1:50 AM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Advanced F2L >I remember a while back reading something by Chris Hardwick a while > back that said if you want to be a fast cuber, you need to have an F2L > in about 30 moves. I don't remember the exact number. > > I took an average number of my moves for F2L and it turned out to be > about 48 moves. > > So just wondering, how much advanced F2L (i.e. open slot F2L, extended > cross, other-please explain) do the fast cubers know. > > Or do you just do Fridrich F2L way better than me? > > -Ben. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

+ 7 for the cross = 35 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Baum" <speedrunningcuber@...> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 2:20 AM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: Advanced F2L > Well, the average Fridrich F2L pair takes 7 moves to put in. 4 x 7 = > 28 moves for an "average" F2L (not including the cross). Do you do > your F2L intuitively? That might be a problem, because if you do F2L > in pairs then you're either taking way too many moves to put them in > or you're doing a 20 move cross. ;) I would suggest going through a > list of F2L algs and comparing them do the way you would do them (if > in fact you do everything intuitively). 48 moves is quite a lot for a > Fridrich F2L though. > > As for how I do F2L, I only make extended crosses no more than 10% of > my solves. I usually use open slots to minimize cube rotation. I > know a few different angles for certain pairs. > > You don't have to solve F2L in 30 moves to be fast, though. I average > 35-38 moves for my F2L and I average 18 seconds consistently. > > -Jason > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ben King" > <grsbmd@y...> wrote: >> I remember a while back reading something by Chris Hardwick a while >> back that said if you want to be a fast cuber, you need to have an > F2L >> in about 30 moves. I don't remember the exact number. >> >> I took an average number of my moves for F2L and it turned out to > be >> about 48 moves. >> >> So just wondering, how much advanced F2L (i.e. open slot F2L, > extended >> cross, other-please explain) do the fast cubers know. >> >> Or do you just do Fridrich F2L way better than me? >> >> -Ben. > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Hey everyone, Here is the link to the stats I took for my 100 cube average for ZB. I counted only the number of moves and not the time. I also took max 30 seconds per cube (basically as fast as I could go but still accurately count how many moves I was doing). http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/zbstats.html All solves were done with ZBF2L and either a COLL/PLL or ZBLL ending. Here are the highlights: - Out of 100 solves I had 26 ZBLL solves, which is right on par with my ZBLL % of about 25.7x% - ZBF2L takes me on average 32.58 moves to solve (over all 100 solves), which is very comparable to Fridrich F2L. - Best solve was a double extended cross ZBLL solve at 35 moves. - worst solve was COLL / PLL finish at 63 moves. - Over 26/100 solves the average number of moves required for a ZBLL solve is 45.43 moves. - My hybrid 25%ZBLL / COLL & PLL method requires 52.24 on average to solve (which I belive is roughly the same as Fridrich) Extended cross statistics - extended cross ZBF2L took 29.96 moves on average over 28/100 solves - average total number of moves for an extended cross solve was 48.32 moves which is 3.92 moves shorter than my 52.24 overall average. So an extended cross start saves (for me) 3.92 moves on the solve on average. So I think that counts as proof that extended cross is a good approach. There are more statistics on the page if you want to see more: http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/zbstats.html You can also compare this 100 cube average to my one from 5 months ago before I knew hardly any ZBLL algs other than the COLL algs. Chris

there will be plenty of Dutch people, and as far as I know : 2 belgians :D 2005/9/26, Duncan Dicks <duncan@...>: > At least some of the British aren't coming - meaning me. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Craig Bouchard" <logitewty@...> > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 8:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] question > > > > Last I talked to Dan he was coming...why don't you think the British > > are coming??? > > > > Craig > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" > > <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > >> I think Dan Harris isn't coming either :-( > >> > >> Unless he has backup plans ;-) > >> > >> -Per > >> > >> > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Sapan Upadhyay > >> <cubekid@g...> wrote: > >> > I think Jess Bonde isn't coming... something about gun laws > >> > > >> > On 9/25/05, mahtianssi <mahtianssi@y...> wrote: > >> > > Am I only cuber who is not going to Orlando in November? > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > -cubekid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Duncan Dicks" <duncan@d...> wrote: > When I do a normal F2L I do working corner with a bit of extra thought - > takes me 30-35 moves which is about the same as Fridrich pairs I believe. I do the same, but with more variation -- typically 30-40, including the cross. But not much thought used. ;) Mike

My F2L is only 28-32 moves, but I suck at F2L (for speed). :) ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ben King" <grsbmd@y...> wrote: > I remember a while back reading something by Chris Hardwick a while > back that said if you want to be a fast cuber, you need to have an F2L > in about 30 moves. I don't remember the exact number. > > I took an average number of my moves for F2L and it turned out to be > about 48 moves. > > So just wondering, how much advanced F2L (i.e. open slot F2L, extended > cross, other-please explain) do the fast cubers know. > > Or do you just do Fridrich F2L way better than me? > > -Ben.

Hey all, I got together with Ian again this weekend and we improved in the team blindfold world yet again (over the course of about 130 solves! :D) 37.71 (37.56) 37.83 40.82 45.43 (46.68) 46.39 44.05 39.14 38.68 44.24 38.43 => 41.27 Fastest non-lucky: 32.85 seconds I think the limits of this (for an average may be in the low to mid 30s), but hopefully I'll be proved wrong eventually. :) ~ Bob

Great statistics Chris. I remember you quoting 52 moves for Fridrich before in a post but I'm pretty sure that basic Fridrich is more like 57-58. Any views? Duncan ----- Original Message ----- From: "cmhardw" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:37 AM Subject: [Speed cubing group] Number of moves statistics for ZB method > Hey everyone, > > Here is the link to the stats I took for my 100 cube average for ZB. > I counted only the number of moves and not the time. I also took max > 30 seconds per cube (basically as fast as I could go but still > accurately count how many moves I was doing). > > http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/zbstats.html > > All solves were done with ZBF2L and either a COLL/PLL or ZBLL ending. > > Here are the highlights: > > - Out of 100 solves I had 26 ZBLL solves, which is right on par with > my ZBLL % of about 25.7x% > - ZBF2L takes me on average 32.58 moves to solve (over all 100 > solves), which is very comparable to Fridrich F2L. > - Best solve was a double extended cross ZBLL solve at 35 moves. > - worst solve was COLL / PLL finish at 63 moves. > - Over 26/100 solves the average number of moves required for a ZBLL > solve is 45.43 moves. > - My hybrid 25%ZBLL / COLL & PLL method requires 52.24 on average to > solve (which I belive is roughly the same as Fridrich) > > Extended cross statistics > - extended cross ZBF2L took 29.96 moves on average over 28/100 solves > - average total number of moves for an extended cross solve was 48.32 > moves which is 3.92 moves shorter than my 52.24 overall average. So > an extended cross start saves (for me) 3.92 moves on the solve on average. > > So I think that counts as proof that extended cross is a good approach. > > There are more statistics on the page if you want to see more: > http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/zbstats.html > > You can also compare this 100 cube average to my one from 5 months ago > before I knew hardly any ZBLL algs other than the COLL algs. > > Chris > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

This is very high for an average. Could you break it down further into averages for: cross, pair 1, pair 2, pair 3, pair 4? This would be great help. ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ben King" <grsbmd@y...> wrote: > I remember a while back reading something by Chris Hardwick a while > back that said if you want to be a fast cuber, you need to have an F2L > in about 30 moves. I don't remember the exact number. > > I took an average number of my moves for F2L and it turned out to be > about 48 moves. > > So just wondering, how much advanced F2L (i.e. open slot F2L, extended > cross, other-please explain) do the fast cubers know. > > Or do you just do Fridrich F2L way better than me? > > -Ben.

My F2L is about 30-31 moves in avg, 100% done intuitively. I try to mix every "step", I mean that i try to prepare my 1st pair while finishing the cross, the 2nd par while inserting the 1st etc... I average now about 8-9s for F2L but my goal is to master F2L in 7-8s(with a 3-4s LL, it'll allow me to average 12s), to my mind F2L must be done totally intuitively, the best way to anticipate everytime... With an extended cross a 25-28 moves F2L is normal, so if you average sup32 moves it means that you don't use the total freedom of F2L Keep cubing SEBASTIEN

I agree. I average sub-30 moves for ZBF2L with extended cross, and based on my solves I saved about 2.62 moves on ZBF2L by using extended cross. I imagine that the number of moves saved is the same for F2L so I would predict a 27.xx move average for Fridrich F2L using extended cross (27 moves only on the extended cross solves). That's using actual data from my averages too, I'm not making that number up off the top of my head. Chris > With an extended cross a 25-28 moves F2L is normal > > SEBASTIEN

I just realized that I'm very tired and that my last post makes absolutely no sense. I don't have any data comparing ZBF2L to F2L so I have no idea how many moves on average an F2L extended cross solve should take. If I drop 2.62 moves off ZBF2L using Xcross though, I would imagine drop 2.62 moves off your F2L average and you'll get a good guess. I really should sleep more... Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > I agree. I average sub-30 moves for ZBF2L with extended cross, and > based on my solves I saved about 2.62 moves on ZBF2L by using extended > cross. I imagine that the number of moves saved is the same for F2L > so I would predict a 27.xx move average for Fridrich F2L using > extended cross (27 moves only on the extended cross solves). > > That's using actual data from my averages too, I'm not making that > number up off the top of my head. > > Chris > > > With an extended cross a 25-28 moves F2L is normal > > > > SEBASTIEN

Well, I'll have to do that when I get home, but qualitatively something I notice that is taking up a lot of my moves is solving F2L pairs in the wrong slots. For example, if I have this F2L case: http://speedcubing.com/images/c1e2_b21_cl.gif And the edge is in the wrong slot, I have to solve the pair into the wrong slot and then put it where it really belongs. Learning algorithms to skip these steps is my first order of business after I finish the last 6 OLL algorithms. -Ben. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> wrote: > This is very high for an average. Could you break it down further > into averages for: cross, pair 1, pair 2, pair 3, pair 4? This would > be great help. > > ~ Bob > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ben King" > <grsbmd@y...> wrote: > > I remember a while back reading something by Chris Hardwick a while > > back that said if you want to be a fast cuber, you need to have an F2L > > in about 30 moves. I don't remember the exact number. > > > > I took an average number of my moves for F2L and it turned out to be > > about 48 moves. > > > > So just wondering, how much advanced F2L (i.e. open slot F2L, extended > > cross, other-please explain) do the fast cubers know. > > > > Or do you just do Fridrich F2L way better than me? > > > > -Ben.

Since i just learned about this in school, i thought i would share: Paul Revere did light the lanterns, but it is not sure if he did infact shout "the british are coming". There is some common sense to show he didnt. There were already british in town, and by waking all the colonists up, he would wake up the british too. This would not help him complete his goal, so it is unsure if he did actually shout that. (i personally think not) Just a little fact. Still, believe what you want! Peter Greenwood --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hayes" <swedishlf@h...> wrote: > Paul Revere hung lanters in the belfry of a church to signal how the > British were attacking in the American Revolution. One if by land, > two if by sea. Then he rode through town shouting "The British are > Coming! The British are coming." So given the last line of your post > I thought that's where you were going with that... > > I can be a little strange at times, forgive me :P > > -Daniel > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > Huh??? > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hayes" > > <swedishlf@h...> wrote: > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Bouchard" > > > <logitewty@h...> wrote: > > > > Last I talked to Dan he was coming...why don't you think the British > > > > are coming??? > > > > > > > > Craig > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll bite! Cause no one hung a lantern in the belfry. > > > > > > -Daniel

Hey Ben, Since I never learned F2L intuitively I like to give out algs for cases like this if someone is looking. If you would rather solve intuitively then don't read this message, as it is a spoiler. * * * * * * * Ok, so if you have the case you linked to http://speedcubing.com/images/c1e2_b21_cl.gif but the pieces are in the wrong slot, here is what you do. The pieces will always be in FR, but they will belong in various other slots. Pieces in FR but belong in BR: U R' F R F' R' U' R Pieces in FR but belong in FL: U' F R' F' R F U F' Pieces in FR but belong in BL: U2 L2 D F2 D' L2 Those algs will preserve the other two F2L pairs. It only affects the going from and going to pairs. I personally use those algs quite frequently, and I find that they help make the case you describe not quite so bad. Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ben King" <grsbmd@y...> wrote: > Well, I'll have to do that when I get home, but qualitatively > something I notice that is taking up a lot of my moves is solving F2L > pairs in the wrong slots. > > For example, if I have this F2L case: > http://speedcubing.com/images/c1e2_b21_cl.gif > > And the edge is in the wrong slot, I have to solve the pair into the > wrong slot and then put it where it really belongs. > > Learning algorithms to skip these steps is my first order of business > after I finish the last 6 OLL algorithms. > > -Ben. > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" > <bob@c...> wrote: > > This is very high for an average. Could you break it down further > > into averages for: cross, pair 1, pair 2, pair 3, pair 4? This > would > > be great help. > > > > ~ Bob > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ben King" > > <grsbmd@y...> wrote: > > > I remember a while back reading something by Chris Hardwick a > while > > > back that said if you want to be a fast cuber, you need to have > an F2L > > > in about 30 moves. I don't remember the exact number. > > > > > > I took an average number of my moves for F2L and it turned out to > be > > > about 48 moves. > > > > > > So just wondering, how much advanced F2L (i.e. open slot F2L, > extended > > > cross, other-please explain) do the fast cubers know. > > > > > > Or do you just do Fridrich F2L way better than me? > > > > > > -Ben.

About ten months ago I made a few runs (a few hundred thousand :) ) with ACube, compairing optimal solutions to different first step strategies. Later down this message is two of those calculations. 10,000 scrambles were generated by distributing pieces of interest randomly. Then all of them were solved optimally for the X-Cross. Both of the calculations assume that the same color for the first step is always used. The difference is that in one case the additional F2L-pair (in addition to the cross) was always the same and in the other case the shortest solution to any pair was chosen. I hope yahoo doesn't mess up the layout too much: Number of moves needed to do the X-Cross, including alignment with centers Moves Positions Percent 4: 11 0.11% 5: 120 1.2% 6: 935 9.35% 7: 4395 43.95% 8: 4383 43.83% 9: 156 1.56% Positions solved: 10000 Average nr of moves: 7.3487 Number of moves needed to do the X-Cross, including alignment with centers and always choosing the same pair Moves Positions Percent 4: 3 0.03% 5: 34 0.34% 6: 260 2.6% 7: 1882 18.82% 8: 5584 55.84% 9: 2233 22.33% 10: 4 0.04% Positions solved: 10000 Average nr of moves: 7.9725 So... if you can do it optimally you can form the X-Cross under 8 moves average. Wouldn't that be nice :) /Gustav cmhardw skrev: >I just realized that I'm very tired and that my last post makes >absolutely no sense. I don't have any data comparing ZBF2L to F2L so >I have no idea how many moves on average an F2L extended cross solve >should take. If I drop 2.62 moves off ZBF2L using Xcross though, I >would imagine drop 2.62 moves off your F2L average and you'll get a >good guess. > >I really should sleep more... > >Chris > >--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> >wrote: > > >>I agree. I average sub-30 moves for ZBF2L with extended cross, and >>based on my solves I saved about 2.62 moves on ZBF2L by using >> >> >extended > > >>cross. I imagine that the number of moves saved is the same for F2L >>so I would predict a 27.xx move average for Fridrich F2L using >>extended cross (27 moves only on the extended cross solves). >> >>That's using actual data from my averages too, I'm not making that >>number up off the top of my head. >> >>Chris >> >> >> >>>With an extended cross a 25-28 moves F2L is normal >>> >>>SEBASTIEN >>> >>> > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >__________ NOD32 1.1232 (20050925) Information __________ > >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >http://www.nod32.com > > > > >

Well, I took the stats and here's what I got: I included all AUF's that were necessary. I'll try not to mess up formatting too bad. And please forgive any miscalculations. ------1--2--3--4--5--6--7--8--9--10-11-12---Avg Cross_7__8__7__9__7__5__6__7__6__9__7__8____7.17 1st___4__10_7__9__8__4__8__5__7__15_6__14___8.08 2nd___9__15_9__3__16_7__11_9__8__15_7__8____9.75 3rd___7__8__8__8__8__6__9__4__9__9__5__8____7.41 4th___3__8__8__8__8__7__8__8__8__9__8__8____7.67 Pairs_23_41_32_28_40_24_26_26_32_48_27_38___32.08 F2L___30_49_39_37_47_29_36_33_28_57_34_46___39.58 OLL___11_8__8__10_11_9__10_12_9__11_7__11___9.75 PLL___14_14_12_14_12_13_14_8__15_12_14_12___12.83 LL____25_22_20_24_23_22_24_20_24_23_21_23___22.58 Total_55_71_59_61_70_51_60_53_62_80_55_69___62.17 As a note, when I made reference to an average of 48, I was including the cross. The pairs that take more than about 11 moves are the ones I described where the edge is in the wrong slot. These results actually aren't too bad, maybe I was making a big fuss about nothing... And Chris, Thank you for all your useful information. I don't want to seem demanding, but you should consider posting your F2L algorithms (like the ones on your last message) on your site. And maybe your description of slant pairing, if you felt like it.I think they would be of great benefit to lots of cubers. anyway, that's all I have to say, Ben.

Oh, it will be VERY nice, Chris...I also have some problems with edges incorrectly placed...Well, maybe I have to find the algs for myself...don't know... Pedro Ben King <grsbmd@...> escreveu: Well, I took the stats and here's what I got: I included all AUF's that were necessary. I'll try not to mess up formatting too bad. And please forgive any miscalculations. ------1--2--3--4--5--6--7--8--9--10-11-12---Avg Cross_7__8__7__9__7__5__6__7__6__9__7__8____7.17 1st___4__10_7__9__8__4__8__5__7__15_6__14___8.08 2nd___9__15_9__3__16_7__11_9__8__15_7__8____9.75 3rd___7__8__8__8__8__6__9__4__9__9__5__8____7.41 4th___3__8__8__8__8__7__8__8__8__9__8__8____7.67 Pairs_23_41_32_28_40_24_26_26_32_48_27_38___32.08 F2L___30_49_39_37_47_29_36_33_28_57_34_46___39.58 OLL___11_8__8__10_11_9__10_12_9__11_7__11___9.75 PLL___14_14_12_14_12_13_14_8__15_12_14_12___12.83 LL____25_22_20_24_23_22_24_20_24_23_21_23___22.58 Total_55_71_59_61_70_51_60_53_62_80_55_69___62.17 As a note, when I made reference to an average of 48, I was including the cross. The pairs that take more than about 11 moves are the ones I described where the edge is in the wrong slot. These results actually aren't too bad, maybe I was making a big fuss about nothing... And Chris, Thank you for all your useful information. I don't want to seem demanding, but you should consider posting your F2L algorithms (like the ones on your last message) on your site. And maybe your description of slant pairing, if you felt like it.I think they would be of great benefit to lots of cubers. anyway, that's all I have to say, Ben. SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Is this site still running? I've been using this pretty extensively for the past few days to practice COLL, but when I go to the site now it just says "Warning: file(zb-scramble.txt): failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/www/ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php on line 28". -Jason --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "c_w_tsai" <c_w_tsai@y...> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > for a scrambler: > > try: > http://ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php?scrtype=zbll > for a zbll scramble (using David's file, but only first 4000 cases > since there's limit on file sizes since I'm using a free account) > I've also changed F1, F3 etc. to the more common F and F' > > try > http://ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php > for a random scrambler > > also you can choose the number of scrambles > http://ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php?scrtype=zbll&num=4 > > or length of scrambles (for random scrambles) > http://ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php?length=15 > > default num is 10 > default scrtype is random > default length is 25 > > This script uses Josef's excellent cube applet :) > > If anyone is interested in using the full zbll set, I can ask Dan > Harris (or someone else) to host the script instead > > cheers

Hey again Ben, Here is the page where I learned about mis-matched pairs (slant-pairing). http://homepage.ntlworld.com/angela.hayden/cube/speed4.html It is from stiff hands' site (I believe his name is Olly, but someone correct me if I am wrong). He provides a few examples to give you the idea, but I recommend looking more into it on your own. This method is VERY powerful when it comes up. If I get a slant pairing case for the 3rd and 4th corner edge pair in my speed solving I would do a slant pair + ZBF2L alg. So this would effectively solve the 3rd and 4th edge pairs and orient the LL edges in one step. Slant pairing can do wonders for your solve. it doesn't come up very frequently, but when it does it helps so much. As far as F2L algs go, I can try to make a page with some of my empty slot algs if there would be some interest. I mean I don't know a huge number of empty slot cases, just the odd few cases that I got tired of seeing and either figured out an alg for, or had ACube or Ron's solver analyze. Again, I only average 11-12 seconds for F2L, so compared to someone like Sebastien my advice probably has some inherent flaws keeping me from sub-10 times, which I would unwittingly pass to you. If there would be interest in some empty slot algs I will of course post them on my site, but as far as F2L goes I'm not even in the same league as the people in the unofficial top ten who use Fridrich. I mean here are a few examples of other empty slot algs that I use freqently. If people would like visuals to go with them just send me an e-mail. I want to help out if people feel that there aren't enough resources for empty slot algs, but I don't want to reinvent the wheel if there are already good sites out there. Other algs I like a lot (do the inverse to setup the case). Each of these 4 algs solves the FL pair. So if you do the inverse of one of these algs to setup the case just make sure the FL pair is solved before you start. All four algs are for when the corner is solved, and the edge is in the F2L in the wrong slot somewhere: Corner in FL, edge in BR: 1) R' U R' D' F' D R2 (edge flipped) 2) R2 D' F2 D R2 (edge correct) I actually figured out both of these algs on my own just sitting down and doing the same case over and over until I found a fast way to do it. These algs preserve FR and BL. corner in FL edge in FR (reflect these algs if the edge is in BL) 1) F2 U' F2 U F2 (edge correct) 2) R' D' F D R (edge flipped) I figured out #1 on my own and Heath Litton taught me the 2nd one about 2 years ago. These algs preserve BR and BL. I mean the algs I would put on my site would be algs like this. Again I don't have a huge number, but if people would be interested I can post the ones I use. Chris > And Chris, Thank you for all your useful information. I don't want > to seem demanding, but you should consider posting your F2L > algorithms (like the ones on your last message) on your site. And > maybe your description of slant pairing, if you felt like it.I think > they would be of great benefit to lots of cubers. > > anyway, that's all I have to say, > Ben.

Hey, Ben, I think there are some miscalculations... You took an average from middle 10, correct? If yes, your Cross average is 7.2, your 1st pair is 7.8, 2nd pair is 9.8, 3rd is 7.6, 4th is 7.9, Pairs is 31.4, F2L is 38.8, (oh, your solve #9 was 38, not 28 moves...), OLL is 9.9, PLL is 13.1, LL is 22.6, and Total is 61.5. But if your average was not that way, please forget this...Oh, another thing: how did you get this x.xx numbers? It might be just .x...or no? Ah, and here are my stats...(I hope there's nothing wrong...) ------1--2--3--4--5--6--7--8--9--10-11-12---Avg Cross_7__6__7__8__18_4__9__7__8__11_10_6____7.9 1st___3__6__7__6__8__7__6__8__3__8__7__5____6.3 2nd___12_8__8__7__8__8__8__8__8__7__8__8____7.9 3rd___8__7__6__8__-__7__7__8__8__11_8__8____7.5 4th___3__8__8__7__-__12_7__4__8__8__-__7____6.0 Pairs_26_29_29_28_16_34_18_28_27_34_23_28___28.0 F2L___33_35_36_36_34_38_37_35_35_45_33_34___35.3 OLL___10_18_9__8__11_11_18_6__16_12_7__10___12.7 PLL___10_15_18_15_10_10_10_10_15_13_10_13___12.1 LL____20_33_37_23_21_21_28_16_31_25_17_23___24.2 Total_53_68_73_59_55_59_65_51_66_70_50_57___60.3 Well, I don't know all OLL, so that with 12 or more are 2 or 3 look OLL and the 18 was a double-extended cross and the 10 was an extended cross. Pedro Ben King <grsbmd@...> escreveu: Well, I took the stats and here's what I got: I included all AUF's that were necessary. I'll try not to mess up formatting too bad. And please forgive any miscalculations. ------1--2--3--4--5--6--7--8--9--10-11-12---Avg Cross_7__8__7__9__7__5__6__7__6__9__7__8____7.17 1st___4__10_7__9__8__4__8__5__7__15_6__14___8.08 2nd___9__15_9__3__16_7__11_9__8__15_7__8____9.75 3rd___7__8__8__8__8__6__9__4__9__9__5__8____7.41 4th___3__8__8__8__8__7__8__8__8__9__8__8____7.67 Pairs_23_41_32_28_40_24_26_26_32_48_27_38___32.08 F2L___30_49_39_37_47_29_36_33_28_57_34_46___39.58 OLL___11_8__8__10_11_9__10_12_9__11_7__11___9.75 PLL___14_14_12_14_12_13_14_8__15_12_14_12___12.83 LL____25_22_20_24_23_22_24_20_24_23_21_23___22.58 Total_55_71_59_61_70_51_60_53_62_80_55_69___62.17 As a note, when I made reference to an average of 48, I was including the cross. The pairs that take more than about 11 moves are the ones I described where the edge is in the wrong slot. These results actually aren't too bad, maybe I was making a big fuss about nothing... And Chris, Thank you for all your useful information. I don't want to seem demanding, but you should consider posting your F2L algorithms (like the ones on your last message) on your site. And maybe your description of slant pairing, if you felt like it.I think they would be of great benefit to lots of cubers. anyway, that's all I have to say, Ben. SPONSORED LINKS Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here are my stats as well. I did standard Fridrich on every solve, nothing ZB for either F2L or LL. I hope the format comes out alright. ------1--2--3--4--5--6--7--8--9--10-11-12---Avg Cross_7__7__7__8__8__5__7__5__6__9__7__4____6.7 1st___8__5__6__-__-__7__5__7__5__-__8__3____5.4 2nd___6__6__7__4__6__7__7__6__3__7__7__5____5.9 3rd___8__7__7__7__8__8__4__8__6__7__6__5____6.8 4th___8__7__8__8__7__8__8__8__8__7__8__7____7.7 Pairs_30_25_28_19_21_30_24_29_22_21_29_20___24.8 F2L___37_32_35_27_29_35_31_34_28_30_36_24___31.5 OLL___10_11_9__12_8__11_10_8__10_7__9__9____9.5 PLL___12_12_10_13_16_10_14_10_13_15_9__14___12.3 LL____22_23_19_25_24_21_24_18_23_22_18_23___21.8 Total_59_55_54_52_53_56_55_52_51_52_54_47___53.3 For each average I took it over all 12 cubes. I figure since there aren't many solves I would use all the available data for the average. I counted extended cross solves as a long cross that skips the 1st pair. So for an extended cross solve I averaged the 1st pair as a 0 move solve. That is why the 1st pair number is so low. Again this average was without using any ZB techniques, pure Fridrich. The last solve, the 47 move one, had an easy cross and the 2nd and third pairs were both empty slot cases. Hope this help some, Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, Pedro <pedrosino1@y...> wrote: > Hey, Ben, I think there are some miscalculations... > You took an average from middle 10, correct? > If yes, your Cross average is 7.2, your 1st pair is 7.8, 2nd pair is 9.8, 3rd is 7.6, 4th is 7.9, Pairs is 31.4, F2L is 38.8, (oh, your solve #9 was 38, not 28 moves...), OLL is 9.9, PLL is 13.1, LL is 22.6, and Total is 61.5. But if your average was not that way, please forget this...Oh, another thing: how did you get this x.xx numbers? It might be just .x...or no? > > Ah, and here are my stats...(I hope there's nothing wrong...) > > ------1--2--3--4--5--6--7--8--9--10-11-12---Avg > Cross_7__6__7__8__18_4__9__7__8__11_10_6____7.9 > 1st___3__6__7__6__8__7__6__8__3__8__7__5____6.3 > > 2nd___12_8__8__7__8__8__8__8__8__7__8__8____7.9 > 3rd___8__7__6__8__-__7__7__8__8__11_8__8____7.5 > > 4th___3__8__8__7__-__12_7__4__8__8__-__7____6.0 > Pairs_26_29_29_28_16_34_18_28_27_34_23_28___28.0 > > F2L___33_35_36_36_34_38_37_35_35_45_33_34___35.3 > OLL___10_18_9__8__11_11_18_6__16_12_7__10___12.7 > > PLL___10_15_18_15_10_10_10_10_15_13_10_13___12.1 > LL____20_33_37_23_21_21_28_16_31_25_17_23___24.2 > > Total_53_68_73_59_55_59_65_51_66_70_50_57___60.3 > > Well, I don't know all OLL, so that with 12 or more are 2 or 3 look OLL > and the 18 was a double-extended cross and the 10 was an extended cross. > > Pedro > Ben King <grsbmd@y...> escreveu: > Well, I took the stats and here's what I got: > > I included all AUF's that were necessary. I'll try not to mess up > formatting too bad. And please forgive any miscalculations. > > ------1--2--3--4--5--6--7--8--9--10-11-12---Avg > Cross_7__8__7__9__7__5__6__7__6__9__7__8____7.17 > 1st___4__10_7__9__8__4__8__5__7__15_6__14___8.08 > > 2nd___9__15_9__3__16_7__11_9__8__15_7__8____9.75 > 3rd___7__8__8__8__8__6__9__4__9__9__5__8____7.41 > > 4th___3__8__8__8__8__7__8__8__8__9__8__8____7.67 > Pairs_23_41_32_28_40_24_26_26_32_48_27_38___32.08 > > F2L___30_49_39_37_47_29_36_33_28_57_34_46___39.58 > OLL___11_8__8__10_11_9__10_12_9__11_7__11___9.75 > > PLL___14_14_12_14_12_13_14_8__15_12_14_12___12.83 > LL____25_22_20_24_23_22_24_20_24_23_21_23___22.58 > > Total_55_71_59_61_70_51_60_53_62_80_55_69___62.17 > > As a note, when I made reference to an average of 48, I was including > the cross. The pairs that take more than about 11 moves are the ones > I described where the edge is in the wrong slot. > > These results actually aren't too bad, maybe I was making a big fuss > about nothing... > > And Chris, Thank you for all your useful information. I don't want > to seem demanding, but you should consider posting your F2L > algorithms (like the ones on your last message) on your site. And > maybe your description of slant pairing, if you felt like it.I think > they would be of great benefit to lots of cubers. > > anyway, that's all I have to say, > Ben. > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games Educational game and puzzle Word puzzle game Kid puzzle game Puzzle games > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger > http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have never practiced team BLD, but I guess the main point is the recognition and the communication. So you should have codes for a bunch of different cases (F2L, OLL & PLL or for other methods). But I think you already have that so I feel like the only thing is recognition... 2005/9/26, Bob Burton <bob@...>: > Hey all, > > I got together with Ian again this weekend and we improved in the team > blindfold world yet again (over the course of about 130 solves! :D) > > 37.71 (37.56) 37.83 40.82 45.43 (46.68) 46.39 44.05 39.14 38.68 44.24 > 38.43 => 41.27 > > Fastest non-lucky: 32.85 seconds > > I think the limits of this (for an average may be in the low to mid > 30s), but hopefully I'll be proved wrong eventually. :) > > ~ Bob > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

it worked a few days ago at least.. 2005/9/27, Jason Baum <speedrunningcuber@...>: > Is this site still running? I've been using this pretty extensively > for the past few days to practice COLL, but when I go to the site now > it just says "Warning: file(zb-scramble.txt): failed to open stream: > No such file or directory in > /home/www/ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php on line 28". > > -Jason > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "c_w_tsai" > <c_w_tsai@y...> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > for a scrambler: > > > > try: > > http://ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php?scrtype=zbll > > for a zbll scramble (using David's file, but only first 4000 cases > > since there's limit on file sizes since I'm using a free account) > > I've also changed F1, F3 etc. to the more common F and F' > > > > try > > http://ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php > > for a random scrambler > > > > also you can choose the number of scrambles > > http://ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php?scrtype=zbll&num=4 > > > > or length of scrambles (for random scrambles) > > http://ctsai.freeserverhost.com/scrambler.php?length=15 > > > > default num is 10 > > default scrtype is random > > default length is 25 > > > > This script uses Josef's excellent cube applet :) > > > > If anyone is interested in using the full zbll set, I can ask Dan > > Harris (or someone else) to host the script instead > > > > cheers > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

A lot of people have said that to you, but I'm really impressed by what you've achieved with ZB. 2005/9/26, Duncan Dicks <duncan@....co.uk>: > Great statistics Chris. > I remember you quoting 52 moves for Fridrich before in a post but I'm pretty > sure that basic Fridrich is more like 57-58. > Any views? > > Duncan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cmhardw" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> > To: <speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:37 AM > Subject: [Speed cubing group] Number of moves statistics for ZB method > > > > Hey everyone, > > > > Here is the link to the stats I took for my 100 cube average for ZB. > > I counted only the number of moves and not the time. I also took max > > 30 seconds per cube (basically as fast as I could go but still > > accurately count how many moves I was doing). > > > > http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/zbstats.html > > > > All solves were done with ZBF2L and either a COLL/PLL or ZBLL ending. > > > > Here are the highlights: > > > > - Out of 100 solves I had 26 ZBLL solves, which is right on par with > > my ZBLL % of about 25.7x% > > - ZBF2L takes me on average 32.58 moves to solve (over all 100 > > solves), which is very comparable to Fridrich F2L. > > - Best solve was a double extended cross ZBLL solve at 35 moves. > > - worst solve was COLL / PLL finish at 63 moves. > > - Over 26/100 solves the average number of moves required for a ZBLL > > solve is 45.43 moves. > > - My hybrid 25%ZBLL / COLL & PLL method requires 52.24 on average to > > solve (which I belive is roughly the same as Fridrich) > > > > Extended cross statistics > > - extended cross ZBF2L took 29.96 moves on average over 28/100 solves > > - average total number of moves for an extended cross solve was 48.32 > > moves which is 3.92 moves shorter than my 52.24 overall average. So > > an extended cross start saves (for me) 3.92 moves on the solve on average. > > > > So I think that counts as proof that extended cross is a good approach. > > > > There are more statistics on the page if you want to see more: > > http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/zbstats.html > > > > You can also compare this 100 cube average to my one from 5 months ago > > before I knew hardly any ZBLL algs other than the COLL algs. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

If you like Rubik's cube, you might like other puzzles too - if so, please consider joining the Yahoo! group at http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/puzzles/ Math puzzles, logic puzzles, Sudoku, ciphers, etc. And no spam. Tim

Alloy Marketing & Promotions an Alloy Media + Marketing company, provides strategic consulting, creation and execution of innovative Big Idea custom marketing solutions that AMPlify a brand's impact with their target consumers and meet their marketing challenge. We were recently named Promo Magazine's 2004 Agency of the Year. We are looking for 2 Rubik Cube Professionals to be part of a promotion in the Times Square Toys'R'Us in New York City. The promotion is celebrating the 25th anniversary of the cube. We will be targeting children ages 6-10 with several games, prizes, giveaways and cube customization. The event will be the first three weekends in November. (5/6, 12/13, 19/20). The professional will need to be able to solve the cube in under 2 minutes however under 1 minute is preferred. Payrate is $35 per hour. approx 8 hours per day. If interested please email mvandzura@... and provide your contact information.

damn... wish i lived in new york :( On 9/27/05, mattvandzura <mvandzura@alloymarketing.com> wrote: > Alloy Marketing & Promotions an Alloy Media + Marketing company, > provides strategic consulting, creation and execution of innovative > Big Idea custom marketing solutions that AMPlify a brand's impact > with their target consumers and meet their marketing challenge. We > were recently named Promo Magazine's 2004 Agency of the Year. > > We are looking for 2 Rubik Cube Professionals to be part of a > promotion in the Times Square Toys'R'Us in New York City. The > promotion is celebrating the 25th anniversary of the cube. We will > be targeting children ages 6-10 with several games, prizes, > giveaways and cube customization. The event will be the first three > weekends in November. (5/6, 12/13, 19/20). > > The professional will need to be able to solve the cube in under 2 > minutes however under 1 minute is preferred. > > Payrate is $35 per hour. approx 8 hours per day. > > If interested please email mvandzura@... and provide > your contact information. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

Where are you located? We may be able to work something out? -----Original Message----- From: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com [mailto:speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Sapan Upadhyay Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:42 AM To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Rubik Professionals Needed for New York Promotion damn... wish i lived in new york :( On 9/27/05, mattvandzura <mvandzura@...> wrote: > Alloy Marketing & Promotions an Alloy Media + Marketing company, > provides strategic consulting, creation and execution of innovative > Big Idea custom marketing solutions that AMPlify a brand's impact > with their target consumers and meet their marketing challenge. We > were recently named Promo Magazine's 2004 Agency of the Year. > > We are looking for 2 Rubik Cube Professionals to be part of a > promotion in the Times Square Toys'R'Us in New York City. The > promotion is celebrating the 25th anniversary of the cube. We will > be targeting children ages 6-10 with several games, prizes, > giveaways and cube customization. The event will be the first three > weekends in November. (5/6, 12/13, 19/20). > > The professional will need to be able to solve the cube in under 2 > minutes however under 1 minute is preferred. > > Payrate is $35 per hour. approx 8 hours per day. > > If interested please email mvandzura@... and provide > your contact information. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- -cubekid ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm going to spend a week in Manhattan in October (17-22). Maybe we could meet, but I can't remember exactly who lives in New York. If you're a speed-cuber I know (*) and if you're interested, please send a message. Gilles. (*) Or a sexy girl. Or both.

haha... very far... houston far On 9/27/05, Matthew Van Dzura <mvandzura@alloymarketing.com> wrote: > Where are you located? We may be able to work something out? > -----Original Message----- > From: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Sapan Upadhyay > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:42 AM > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Rubik Professionals Needed for New York > Promotion > > > damn... wish i lived in new york :( > > On 9/27/05, mattvandzura <mvandzura@alloymarketing.com> wrote: > > Alloy Marketing & Promotions an Alloy Media + Marketing company, > > provides strategic consulting, creation and execution of innovative > > Big Idea custom marketing solutions that AMPlify a brand's impact > > with their target consumers and meet their marketing challenge. We > > were recently named Promo Magazine's 2004 Agency of the Year. > > > > We are looking for 2 Rubik Cube Professionals to be part of a > > promotion in the Times Square Toys'R'Us in New York City. The > > promotion is celebrating the 25th anniversary of the cube. We will > > be targeting children ages 6-10 with several games, prizes, > > giveaways and cube customization. The event will be the first three > > weekends in November. (5/6, 12/13, 19/20). > > > > The professional will need to be able to solve the cube in under 2 > > minutes however under 1 minute is preferred. > > > > Payrate is $35 per hour. approx 8 hours per day. > > > > If interested please email mvandzura@... and provide > > your contact information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -cubekid > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

Hehe ... If u guys ever get bored of cubing and u thought that minesweeping was pretty cool too. Then u should check out the cool 3D sweeping game: http://web.aanet.com.au/robertw/Mines3D/download.html I have only tried the free demo version and it is very cool. Im not sure it has the charm of the original though ;-) I always liked 2D computer games over 3D games anyway ... lol ... Many 3D games seem to be made only to impress or to kill time (fps games). 2D board games with simple rules and advanced strategy are much more appealing to me. Many old classics are hard to get to work in later window versions. For that, DosBox is a cool utility program through which i have played many old favorites (notrus (best tetris), lemmings, epic pinball, brix, heartlight, sam and max ... ). http://dosbox.sourceforge.net Have fun! -Per

Hey Gilles, I live in North Jersey. I'm less than an hour away from the city (by train or by car). If I was home (instead of school), I could look out my window and see the city. :) ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gilles Roux" <grrroux@f...> wrote: > > I'm going to spend a week in Manhattan in October (17-22). > Maybe we could meet, but I can't remember exactly who lives in New York. > If you're a speed-cuber I know (*) and if you're interested, please > send a message. > > Gilles. > > (*) Or a sexy girl. Or both.

Haha ... Don't insult unsexy girls. They can also be great ;-) The best cubes don't always have the best stickers, do they ??? Cheers! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gilles Roux" <grrroux@f...> wrote: > > I'm going to spend a week in Manhattan in October (17-22). > Maybe we could meet, but I can't remember exactly who lives in New York. > If you're a speed-cuber I know (*) and if you're interested, please > send a message. > > Gilles. > > (*) Or a sexy girl. Or both.

Note that the "professionnal" won't be able to go to the WC. And for 35$ / hour, "under 1 minute" seems very large I think. But I'm not the one that made that decision. (Belgium isn't exactly near NY, + I have the WC) 2005/9/27, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@...>: > haha... very far... houston far > > On 9/27/05, Matthew Van Dzura <mvandzura@...> wrote: > > Where are you located? We may be able to work something out? > > -----Original Message----- > > From: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Sapan Upadhyay > > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:42 AM > > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Rubik Professionals Needed for New York > > Promotion > > > > > > damn... wish i lived in new york :( > > > > On 9/27/05, mattvandzura <mvandzura@...> wrote: > > > Alloy Marketing & Promotions an Alloy Media + Marketing company, > > > provides strategic consulting, creation and execution of innovative > > > Big Idea custom marketing solutions that AMPlify a brand's impact > > > with their target consumers and meet their marketing challenge. We > > > were recently named Promo Magazine's 2004 Agency of the Year. > > > > > > We are looking for 2 Rubik Cube Professionals to be part of a > > > promotion in the Times Square Toys'R'Us in New York City. The > > > promotion is celebrating the 25th anniversary of the cube. We will > > > be targeting children ages 6-10 with several games, prizes, > > > giveaways and cube customization. The event will be the first three > > > weekends in November. (5/6, 12/13, 19/20). > > > > > > The professional will need to be able to solve the cube in under 2 > > > minutes however under 1 minute is preferred. > > > > > > Payrate is $35 per hour. approx 8 hours per day. > > > > > > If interested please email mvandzura@alloymarketing.com and provide > > > your contact information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -cubekid > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -cubekid > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Let's cube in Central Park - I have a bunch of cube buddies who, among myself, live in NY. --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > Haha ... > > Don't insult unsexy girls. They can also be great ;-) > The best cubes don't always have the best stickers, do they ??? > > Cheers! > > -Per > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Gilles Roux" > <grrroux@f...> wrote: > > > > I'm going to spend a week in Manhattan in October (17-22). > > Maybe we could meet, but I can't remember exactly who lives in New > York. > > If you're a speed-cuber I know (*) and if you're interested, > please > > send a message. > > > > Gilles. > > > > (*) Or a sexy girl. Or both.

All this talk about F2L moves makes me curious. What is everyone average F2L time (including cross). My best average is 25s and I can't seem to get any faster. I think it's my F2L to blame. - In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> wrote: > This is very high for an average. Could you break it down further > into averages for: cross, pair 1, pair 2, pair 3, pair 4? This would > be great help. > > ~ Bob > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ben King" > <grsbmd@y...> wrote: > > I remember a while back reading something by Chris Hardwick a while > > back that said if you want to be a fast cuber, you need to have an F2L > > in about 30 moves. I don't remember the exact number. > > > > I took an average number of my moves for F2L and it turned out to be > > about 48 moves. > > > > So just wondering, how much advanced F2L (i.e. open slot F2L, extended > > cross, other-please explain) do the fast cubers know. > > > > Or do you just do Fridrich F2L way better than me? > > > > -Ben

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > > For that, DosBox is a cool utility program through > which i have played many old favorites (notrus (best tetris), What's special about "notrus"? I (of course) claim the best tetris is my own "3D-Tris", the only real 3D Tetris I've seen so far. Here's a screenshot: http://stefan-pochmann.de/foo/3dtris.jpg How do you like that? To prove that you can see it, tell me which stone is already lying on the floor, which is on top of the board, and which comes in next ;-) Cheers! Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > Haha ... > > Don't insult unsexy girls. They can also be great ;-) > The best cubes don't always have the best stickers, do they ??? You mistake beautiful and sexy. Best stickers might make a cube look beautiful, but sexyness depends on how it feels when I play with it. Cheers! Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "bryanosaurus" <bmytko@o...> wrote: > All this talk about F2L moves makes me curious. What is everyone > average F2L time (including cross). My best average is 25s and I can't > seem to get any faster. I think it's my F2L to blame. http://www.speedcubing.com/records/recs_misc_f2l_av10.html Stefan

--- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" > <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > > > > For that, DosBox is a cool utility program through > > which i have played many old favorites (notrus (best tetris), > > What's special about "notrus"? > > I (of course) claim the best tetris is my own "3D-Tris", the only real > 3D Tetris I've seen so far. Here's a screenshot: > http://stefan-pochmann.de/foo/3dtris.jpg > > How do you like that? To prove that you can see it, tell me which > stone is already lying on the floor, which is on top of the board, and > which comes in next ;-) > > Cheers! > Stefan I bought the full version of minesweeper 3d a while back, worth it in my oppinion. The sound effects are fantastic =P . That 3d-tris pic is pretty cool too! 1x4 block laying flat on ground, 2x2 block in the air, and z shaped block comes next ;). -Daniel

Oh my god that is awesome! Stefan can you send me a copy of that?! Proof: * * * * * * * * * * * * * (so it won't appear on the main page) To prove that you can see it, tell me which > stone is already lying on the floor, 4x1 block > which is on top of the board, 2x2 block and > which comes in next ;-) the weird 2x2 block with the top 2x1 shifted one to the left (I'm not a tetris player as you might have guess :-) Again I've never really been a tetris player, but I am a huge fan of Stereograms! Seriously, can I get a copy of that program? Chris --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" > <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > > > > For that, DosBox is a cool utility program through > > which i have played many old favorites (notrus (best tetris), > > What's special about "notrus"? > > I (of course) claim the best tetris is my own "3D-Tris", the only real > 3D Tetris I've seen so far. Here's a screenshot: > http://stefan-pochmann.de/foo/3dtris.jpg > > How do you like that? To prove that you can see it, tell me which > stone is already lying on the floor, which is on top of the board, and > which comes in next ;-) > > Cheers! > Stefan

Haha ... I never could see such things. And it's not interesting when it's hard to see it either :-P Obviously u never played notrus. The object is not simply to keep everything down. The object is to make sure to collect bonus-lines by removing quadruple lines at the same time. These bonus-lines will be removed from bottom of playing field when u are otherwise dead (hit the roof). This makes it much much more fun to play. So u need different skills than plain-vanilla tetris. 3D fancy stuff adds nothing to the playability of the game. Unless u really have a 3D playing field or something like in blockout. That's just my personal opinion. Im sure it was great fun to code ur 3D-tris though :-) Regards, Per PS! Anyone recalls the name of another old cool tetris-clone. The polyminoes came sliding down the walls in a pseudo-3d box sorta. And u could reduce the field (at bottom of the box) by making vertical or horisontal lines. It was russian i think. With some ice-skating artwork that was really cool :-) > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" > <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > > > > For that, DosBox is a cool utility program through > > which i have played many old favorites (notrus (best tetris), > > What's special about "notrus"? > > I (of course) claim the best tetris is my own "3D-Tris", the only real > 3D Tetris I've seen so far. Here's a screenshot: > http://stefan-pochmann.de/foo/3dtris.jpg > > How do you like that? To prove that you can see it, tell me which > stone is already lying on the floor, which is on top of the board, and > which comes in next ;-) > > Cheers! > Stefan

Does anyone have any good statistics for number of moves required for OLL/PLL? Also, do the algs you choose to use affect this number greatly, or not by much? Meaning would two people who use OLL/PLL get significantly different results for the number of moves required? Chris

I did 12 solves just now (F2L only): 16.81 15.87 16.61 (12.80) 13.72 19.71 (22.29) 13.89 18.17 17.13 15.27 14.72 => 16.19 ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "bryanosaurus" <bmytko@o...> wrote: > All this talk about F2L moves makes me curious. What is everyone > average F2L time (including cross). My best average is 25s and I can't > seem to get any faster. I think it's my F2L to blame. > > > > > > > > > > > > > - In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <bob@c...> > wrote: > > This is very high for an average. Could you break it down further > > into averages for: cross, pair 1, pair 2, pair 3, pair 4? This would > > be great help. > > > > ~ Bob > > > > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Ben King" > > <grsbmd@y...> wrote: > > > I remember a while back reading something by Chris Hardwick a while > > > back that said if you want to be a fast cuber, you need to have an > F2L > > > in about 30 moves. I don't remember the exact number. > > > > > > I took an average number of my moves for F2L and it turned out to be > > > about 48 moves. > > > > > > So just wondering, how much advanced F2L (i.e. open slot F2L, > extended > > > cross, other-please explain) do the fast cubers know. > > > > > > Or do you just do Fridrich F2L way better than me? > > > > > > -Ben

I suppose I could count the moves on all my OLLs, then multiply by their probabilities, take the sum, and then factor in COLL with its probabilities...but I'm way too busy. :( ~ Bob --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw <no_reply@y...> wrote: > Does anyone have any good statistics for number of moves required for > OLL/PLL? > > Also, do the algs you choose to use affect this number greatly, or not > by much? Meaning would two people who use OLL/PLL get significantly > different results for the number of moves required? > > Chris

yea i didnt even think about the wc... so i guess its a good thing i live so far away. On 9/27/05, Gilles van den Peereboom <gillesvdp@...> wrote: > Note that the "professionnal" won't be able to go to the WC. > And for 35$ / hour, "under 1 minute" seems very large I think. > But I'm not the one that made that decision. (Belgium isn't exactly > near NY, + I have the WC) > > 2005/9/27, Sapan Upadhyay <cubekid@...>: > > haha... very far... houston far > > > > On 9/27/05, Matthew Van Dzura <mvandzura@alloymarketing.com> wrote: > > > Where are you located? We may be able to work something out? > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Sapan Upadhyay > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:42 AM > > > To: speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [Speed cubing group] Rubik Professionals Needed for New York > > > Promotion > > > > > > > > > damn... wish i lived in new york :( > > > > > > On 9/27/05, mattvandzura <mvandzura@...> wrote: > > > > Alloy Marketing & Promotions an Alloy Media + Marketing company, > > > > provides strategic consulting, creation and execution of innovative > > > > Big Idea custom marketing solutions that AMPlify a brand's impact > > > > with their target consumers and meet their marketing challenge. We > > > > were recently named Promo Magazine's 2004 Agency of the Year. > > > > > > > > We are looking for 2 Rubik Cube Professionals to be part of a > > > > promotion in the Times Square Toys'R'Us in New York City. The > > > > promotion is celebrating the 25th anniversary of the cube. We will > > > > be targeting children ages 6-10 with several games, prizes, > > > > giveaways and cube customization. The event will be the first three > > > > weekends in November. (5/6, 12/13, 19/20). > > > > > > > > The professional will need to be able to solve the cube in under 2 > > > > minutes however under 1 minute is preferred. > > > > > > > > Payrate is $35 per hour. approx 8 hours per day. > > > > > > > > If interested please email mvandzura@alloymarketing.com and provide > > > > your contact information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -cubekid > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > a.. Visit your group "speedsolvingrubikscube" on the web. > > > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > speedsolvingrubikscube-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -cubekid > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

lol On 9/27/05, Stefan Pochmann <pochmann@...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" > <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > > Haha ... > > > > Don't insult unsexy girls. They can also be great ;-) > > The best cubes don't always have the best stickers, do they ??? > > You mistake beautiful and sexy. Best stickers might make a cube look > beautiful, but sexyness depends on how it feels when I play with it. > > Cheers! > Stefan > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- -cubekid

Umm ... I don't quite agree. I would judge a cube sexy or not without trying it out. Just like i could judge a girl sexy or not without trying her out. Lol :-P Maybe i actually confused sexy and charming? But that looks so dull on print ;-) Have fun! -Per > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pochmann" <pochmann@g...> wrote: > --- In speedsolvingrubikscube@yahoogroups.com, "Per Kristen Fredlund" > <aspiring_to_love@y...> wrote: > > Haha ... > > > > Don't insult unsexy girls. They can also be great ;-) > > The best cubes don't always have the best stickers, do they ??? > > You mistake beautiful and sexy. Best stickers might make a cube look > beautiful, but sexyness depends on how it feels when I play with it. > > Cheers! > Stefan

Hello All, Until a few days ago playing on the internet I did not realize how big cubing was. I was given a cube about 6mo ago while I was off of work due to injury. Within 14 days I was able to solve 2 layers anytime I wanted, it took another 14 days to figure out the bottom layer - I figured this out all on my own. I can solve in about 2min 30sec on average. After a little research a few days ago I found out people share how to solve all over the internet - The way I solve is obviously on a novice level, cause I have no idea how to get the time even close to a minute let alone 20-25sec's. I want to be able to speedcube fast, very fast - I also read that having a "speed" cube helps alot, mine is right out of a package a few months ago. Can anyone reply and give me some good information on what would be a good way to go. I live in Ft. Wayne, Indiana Thank you Eric S.